Delta and TPG looking into AMR Corp bid

[On Your Six]

Dude what are you talking about. Look out your window nextime your taxing out of your so called big airport. It is a sea of RJ s....


We soon will even more flying. You might want me to help you get a job here.

Every day oil stays high, there are fewer RJs out there. It's called economics. How many ASA CRJs have been transferred out of the DCI arena and over to UAL? The Saabs are gone, and 50 seaters will go away faster. Look at Comair, they will be down to 44 total planes by the end of this year. That is partially because of that high fuel, and also expensive mx checks that apparently aren't worth doing to Delta. And YES, the DC9s are also going away this year, but 29 MD90s are also coming to MAINLINE, not DCI. Remember, don't hate the playa, hate the game!


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[waveflyer]

Scoot- again, i know its probably hard to hear bc youre so used to being at the top- and you dont like a former legacy guy trashing you- but youve earned it. Make less selfish divisive choices and you wont hear it from me. Stop selling out your junior. I do bash all of them-ask fubi what I think of his RJs at Alaska- certainly no legacy has been anything less than terrible at outsourcing- but DALPA was the first major pilot union to allow it anywhere in the world. Leaders on a global scale. And you were the last to allow it to
expand when you went to 76 seats- showed me you've learned nothing.
How was united that close to liquidation and never got more than 70 seaters- CO had been through two bk's and only allow 50's- but delta? 76 in a 90 seat jet is good?

Look man, you clearly don't like any SWA guy bashing you, so don't think of me as a SWA guy- think of me as a legacy pilot, forced onto the street while you outsourced his job-
I'm sorry you don't like hearing from us- but I think you lack all integrity- and show it by your constant excuses for the outsourcing: "we're a global carrier" response "HALF of all domestic flights???" "SWA undercut us!!" r: "no argument, what does that have to do with outsourcing?" "You're a SWA pilot, youreaswapilot!!!!Hypocrite!!!!"
"yeah- none of which has anything to do with the FACT that you have HALF your domestic flights operated by several separate pilot lists all whipsawed against each other"

 

[Fubijaakr]

You are no better than I. We deserve DOH

NOT! You were not hired by DAL nor by an airline merged/bought by DAL. You deserve nothing but an interview IF you ever become qualifed.

We may be no better, but our jobs are. You can't bring an RJ to the table with guys flying mainline aircraft and expect DOH.

Amen.

You're not really helping your argument guy. You are doing a fantastic job of perpetuating the persona of a completely out of touch, arrogant, entitled and barely literate rj pilot. The rest of us rj pukes truly thank you.

Enough said.

You are the same ,as me dude .

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? Do you understand the difference between a codeshare and a CPA? Your comment demonstrates you do not.

 

[Scoot 11]

Scoot- again, i know its probably hard to hear bc youre so used to being at the top- and you dont like a former legacy guy trashing you- but youve earned it. Make less selfish divisive choices and you wont hear it from me. Stop selling out your junior. I do bash all of them-ask fubi what I think of his RJs at Alaska- certainly no legacy has been anything less than terrible at outsourcing- but DALPA was the first major pilot union to allow it anywhere in the world. Leaders on a global scale. And you were the last to allow it to
expand when you went to 76 seats- showed me you've learned nothing.
How was united that close to liquidation and never got more than 70 seaters- CO had been through two bk's and only allow 50's- but delta? 76 in a 90 seat jet is good?

Look man, you clearly don't like any SWA guy bashing you, so don't think of me as a SWA guy- think of me as a legacy pilot, forced onto the street while you outsourced his job-
I'm sorry you don't like hearing from us- but I think you lack all integrity- and show it by your constant excuses for the outsourcing: "we're a global carrier" response "HALF of all domestic flights???" "SWA undercut us!!" r: "no argument, what does that have to do with outsourcing?" "You're a SWA pilot, youreaswapilot!!!!Hypocrite!!!!"
"yeah- none of which has anything to do with the FACT that you have HALF your domestic flights operated by several separate pilot lists all whipsawed against each other"

Wave. Maybe I wasn't so clear on the outsourcing part. Yes, we do it. No I'm not proud of it. No I don't like the fact that we outsource half of domestic flying.
Having read your post, it's obvious you're a furloughed DAL guy who's moved on. You wouldn't be the first one to trash your former employer, and you most certainly won't be the last.
When I talk about calling you a hypocrite, it's not because of outsourcing. Example.....Why don't you go over the the Gulfstream board and tell them they're all sellouts for buying a job.
You obviously didn't choose Southwest as your first choice of airlines. Only after the tragic events of 9-11 did you want a job there. What if 9-11 never happened, and you weren't furloughed? You'd still be here. You'd probably be on the other end of the pendulum talking about how Southwest is still undercutting the legacies.
Let's face it. Southwest has a stellar management team, but the tide is turning. Your posts remind me of the UAL guys in the late 90's. Look at them now. You should really be careful about throwing stones in a glass house.
I understand your anger, but you have no business calling anyone a sellout. Southwest has been selling out the industry for years. The whole "show up for training with a 737 type." The whole, "less than average pay, no retirement, worse work rules....Hence why you are a "low cost carrier." Yes, you are productive. Yes you are better paid. But on the backs of the legacies! You know, those "sellouts," you so proudly trash.
I could care less how you feel now about DAL, just as you could care less about how me or anyone else feels about SWA. I want us all to make more money, and having Southwest around at a time when 9-11 happened, well, who's pay do you think they wanted us to be lower than?
So forgive me for not being more clear on the outsourcing part. I'm not proud of it, but when you call someone else a "sellout," without looking in the mirror, it just shows your ignorance.
Have a good night.

Scoot

And BTW, WTF is the deal with you guys taxiing around at warp speed and getting into the air and doing .77?:laugh::beer:
For guys that are always in such a BF hurry on the ground, you sure fly slow at altitudes. Come on man, just pick up the speed damn it!

 

[waveflyer]

Not delta- just hate outsourcing and hope very legacy gets the damage it does-

So die thread! And apologies for the aggressive drift- I agree w: most others- unless AA ceases it's current form and they part it out (doubtful) I don't see Delta/AA

As for your last question:
Turn around fair play?
Why do you guys taxi so slow and then fly so fast??
We're trying to be efficient- taxiing fast doesn't burn gas and is the best place to shave minutes- the conservation profiles really don't cost much time, though on short haul it's debatable if they actually save fuel

 

[Dan Roman]

Wave. Maybe I wasn't so clear on the outsourcing part. Yes, we do it. No I'm not proud of it. No I don't like the fact that we outsource half of domestic flying.
Having read your post, it's obvious you're a furloughed DAL guy who's moved on. You wouldn't be the first one to trash your former employer, and you most certainly won't be the last.
When I talk about calling you a hypocrite, it's not because of outsourcing. Example.....Why don't you go over the the Gulfstream board and tell them they're all sellouts for buying a job.
You obviously didn't choose Southwest as your first choice of airlines. Only after the tragic events of 9-11 did you want a job there. What if 9-11 never happened, and you weren't furloughed? You'd still be here. You'd probably be on the other end of the pendulum talking about how Southwest is still undercutting the legacies.
Let's face it. Southwest has a stellar management team, but the tide is turning. Your posts remind me of the UAL guys in the late 90's. Look at them now. You should really be careful about throwing stones in a glass house.
I understand your anger, but you have no business calling anyone a sellout. Southwest has been selling out the industry for years. The whole "show up for training with a 737 type." The whole, "less than average pay, no retirement, worse work rules....Hence why you are a "low cost carrier." Yes, you are productive. Yes you are better paid. But on the backs of the legacies! You know, those "sellouts," you so proudly trash.
I could care less how you feel now about DAL, just as you could care less about how me or anyone else feels about SWA. I want us all to make more money, and having Southwest around at a time when 9-11 happened, well, who's pay do you think they wanted us to be lower than?
So forgive me for not being more clear on the outsourcing part. I'm not proud of it, but when you call someone else a "sellout," without looking in the mirror, it just shows your ignorance.
Have a good night.

Scoot

And BTW, WTF is the deal with you guys taxiing around at warp speed and getting into the air and doing .77?:laugh::beer:
For guys that are always in such a BF hurry on the ground, you sure fly slow at altitudes. Come on man, just pick up the speed damn it!

Wave, I like a lot of your posts and you don't stoop to the "name calling makes your point more valid" school of thought, so, that said........ Scoots post was a very fair and a non bashing perspective of why some of us roll our eyes at the SWA RULES! posts on here. Delta (and I don't work there as you know) has accomplished much more as an airline than SWA, they have a longer history and they pioneered the concept of labor friendly management. I recall their employees buying the company a 767! They have had to compete with the LCC'c cherry picking their route structure, LCC's that paid less, had pilots willing to buy a type to get hired and yes SWA helped undermine the retirement plans of many. You still only have a 401k with not industry leading matching. That's not a bash, it just is what it is. Fair enough, it's called capitalism and it beats the alternative, but it's not always fair. The point is, as scoot says, anything can happen to any of us. SWAPA has not exactly raised the bar of our profession, they have just found a way to get in the game and prosper,,,for now. As DAL has proven, you can be the best run, most employee friendly airline around and it doesn't mean that it can't change. Actually it will change, not if, just when. Maybe 5 years maybe 50 years, but every company changes it's skin over time.

As far as the code sharing goes, SWA decided to expand with 737's into Canada and Mexico, their initial plan was to use non SWA crews......glass houses dude. None of our airlines are perfect and you can find something to throw stones about at anyone, it's wild career not for the faint hearted. But the whole "SWAPA rules ALPA sucks and SWA is the best!" banter is short sighted and hypocritical.

Take this as a friendly observation, we all just fly airplanes and it's pretty silly to play the "my airline can beat up your airline" game.

 

[Dan Roman]

....and back on track, I agree, AMR will survive, they won't be parted out or merge with DAL and they will end up stronger than ever. They made sure they went in C 11 with a healthy amount of cash so they could, in fact have more control over their destiny near as I can tell. We will see, but a couple years from now they could be quite the powerhouse. As I said everything always changes in this business. Pan Am used to be Americas flag ship airline, Braniff used to be the most profitable, USAir and Piedmont were two of the better jobs around and two of the more profitable airlines in the industry, until they merged that is. SWA used to be a tiny intra state carrier and Continental was once a skeleton of it's current form under Frank Lorenzo. Oh yeah, you guys do sound like the United pilots of the 90's on here.......glass houses dude glass houses.

 

[waveflyer]

Dan-
Again... My posts in this thread haven't mentioned SWA- scoot who knows I work there brought that in-
I'm just talking about outsourcing-
So again (exasperated) what does an autonomous Swapa group choosing their own destiny, no matter how much you might think its lowering the bar, have to do with outsourcing and disenfranchising half of the domestic departures?
I'm not defending or justifying anything Swa is- I'm talking about outsourcing and my very non-zen, borderline unhealthy, complete disdain for all airline unions who allow it and make excuses for why it exists.
It exists bc pilots fell for a simple mgmt trap and haven't been strong enough to stop it. And I'm not unreasonable- I favor short term stop gap, limited code-sharing where it's strategically needed. Replacement pilots operating on multiple whipsawed lists does not remotely fit that. It's way closer to scab than anything and it's shameful that anyone defends it.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

One very possible reason a full or partial buyout could occur is to disrupt the One World Alliance. Alliances really run the show these days, and disrupting one of the largest ones could be a smart ploy. I don't think the whole airline could be absorbed by the other, with regard to Gov't approval, etc.

Godspeed!​

The OYSter​

Very astute observation. That is the real win here if AMR is parted out.

 

[xjhawk]

Wave, I like a lot of your posts and you don't stoop to the "name calling makes your point more valid" school of thought, so, that said........ Scoots post was a very fair and a non bashing perspective of why some of us roll our eyes at the SWA RULES! posts on here. Delta (and I don't work there as you know) has accomplished much more as an airline than SWA, they have a longer history and they pioneered the concept of labor friendly management. I recall their employees buying the company a 767! They have had to compete with the LCC'c cherry picking their route structure, LCC's that paid less, had pilots willing to buy a type to get hired and yes SWA helped undermine the retirement plans of many. You still only have a 401k with not industry leading matching. That's not a bash, it just is what it is. Fair enough, it's called capitalism and it beats the alternative, but it's not always fair. The point is, as scoot says, anything can happen to any of us. SWAPA has not exactly raised the bar of our profession, they have just found a way to get in the game and prosper,,,for now. As DAL has proven, you can be the best run, most employee friendly airline around and it doesn't mean that it can't change. Actually it will change, not if, just when. Maybe 5 years maybe 50 years, but every company changes it's skin over time.

As far as the code sharing goes, SWA decided to expand with 737's into Canada and Mexico, their initial plan was to use non SWA crews......glass houses dude. None of our airlines are perfect and you can find something to throw stones about at anyone, it's wild career not for the faint hearted. But the whole "SWAPA rules ALPA sucks and SWA is the best!" banter is short sighted and hypocritical.

Take this as a friendly observation, we all just fly airplanes and it's pretty silly to play the "my airline can beat up your airline" game.

Dan, I must say once again a great post. I enjoy reading the things you write on here-its refreshing to see a positive perspective on here when others are bashing.

 

[igneousy2]

I don't think 100% of AA could be merged with Delta, however, I do believe that Delta can afford to pay more for the 1/2 that Delta wants plus the parts that it knows it could sell off than US Air could for 100% of AA.

Another point is that a AA/DAL decision will probably be made by the next administration...so the election results could become the determining factor.

 

[outerlimits]

I don't think 100% of AA could be merged with Delta, however, I do believe that Delta can afford to pay more for the 1/2 that Delta wants plus the parts that it knows it could sell off than US Air could for 100% of AA.

Another point is that a AA/DAL decision will probably be made by the next administration...so the election results could become the determining factor.

So very true. The decission will be made by the judge. He will do as he sees as the best option. That is the reason the stock is at .42 cents and not zero.

Anything can happen, AMR is not driving the bus.

 

[satpak77]

where is the General lately

 

[Frank Lorenzo]

Continental was once a skeleton of it's current form under Frank Lorenzo.

Whoa there tiger! The airline industry and pilot's quality of life would be much much better with me back in the game.

If I were king, I would make sure that my pilot's were taken care of! No more crash pads and stuff like that. I would let you all sit hot reserve at the airport 7 days a week, and I would even lobby the local airport for you guys to use those cots they have for the passengers that get stranded during snowstorms. You could use the potable water hose for showers for FREE.

I would even provide your meals by allowing you to work part time at the airport McDonalds or Starbucks. I hear Starbucks offers health insurance for its workers, so I guess health care can count as being "covered" under my compensation package as well.

I think it's time for me to start warming up the paperwork for Texas Air Corp v2.0 to rise from the ashes. Sounds like I have a fan club that can't wait for me to return!

 

[satpak77]

Whoa there tiger! The airline industry and pilot's quality of life would be much much better with me back in the game.

If I were king, I would make sure that my pilot's were taken care of! No more crash pads and stuff like that. I would let you all sit hot reserve at the airport 7 days a week, and I would even lobby the local airport for you guys to use those cots they have for the passengers that get stranded during snowstorms. You could use the potable water hose for showers for FREE.

I would even provide your meals by allowing you to work part time at the airport McDonalds or Starbucks. I hear Starbucks offers health insurance for its workers, so I guess health care can count as being "covered" under my compensation package as well.

I think it's time for me to start warming up the paperwork for Texas Air Corp v2.0 to rise from the ashes. Sounds like I have a fan club that can't wait for me to return!

Frank those are all very exciting ideas. Don't forget that working at Starbucks allows you to not provide healthcare to your guys. The various VIP lounges typically have showers and I am sure you can have them shower there. While your guys are physically at the airport, they can be used to clean cabins, etc thus further reducing labor costs.