Delta and TPG looking into AMR Corp bid

[outerlimits]

Yeah, but he's teaching them a valuable lesson (although not necessarily the one he THINKS he's teaching). Besides, we don't talk about that on FI anymore. He's stopped bragging about it, and we stopped beating on him for being a no-integrity, power-abusing putz. I'm sure he still does it; but that's okay, we all still think he's a no-integrity, power-abusing putz. We just don't TALK about it anymore. Get it?


Bubba

P.S. Oops! A little thread creep again... hope we don't get "moderated!" :0

All I know is fuby and I both work for an airline that feeds for Delta. Only difference between him and I is that I do not deny the jump seat to those that my airline already have an agreement with.


We both are feeder rats.

 

[SpaceShipEarth]

"him" is objective and "I" is subjective. You can not use an objective pronoun and a subjective pronoun together!

 

[outerlimits]

"him" is objective and "I" is subjective. You can not use an objective pronoun and a subjective pronoun together!

Could you please give I an example ?

 

[waveflyer]

Hpilot- do you really think furloughing thousands, then releasing scope over and over to the point that half of deltas domestic flights are done by whipsawed connection carriers is the same thing as caravans running for FedEx?
They're flying e170's and CRJ-900's with 76 seats on SLC-ATL
And ATL-CVG, ATL-JFK- how the hell is hub to hub considered feed in these sellouts minds? They'll see both oceans twice in a 4-day and they're supposed to be considered "regional" pilots???
We all know those geeks who used to run turboprops for whoever and say they flew for the major they fed- but you guys don't seem to be getting outerlimits' schtick - it's funny and pretty damn true- the definition of a delta pilot is pretty damn hazy on the domestic side. All about pull the ladder up- think about the numbers here! HALF! Half of all domestic flights operated by "connection" wtf?!? furlough then outsource- once furloughed they don't get a vote and they can keep on pulling the ladder up to benefit themselves. Professional my arse- no bigger offenders in the outsourcing game than a delta pilot. I don't even blame mgmt anymore- why wouldn't they outsource when they know dalpa is so easily bought off.
Sorry, it's a much different employment picture now than 15 years ago when I was running turboprops- these guys are delta pilots. Previous generations were sold out- but not like this. They had to deal with B scales, but at least they got to be employed by the company that provided the passengers. Amazing so many still don't get what pieces of ******************** they are for allowing it. And when I say allow it, I mean show up to work and stay quiet.
Sell outs until you prove otherwise. Most UNPROFESSIONAL among us- (except the 1 scab at spirit)

That's fine if you want to say you fly for Delta, just don't forget to add Connection at the end. Or Express if you're United or US Airways. I get it, you're average Joe doesn't know who Skywest or Air Wisconsin is. If you're talking to other pilots though, you definitely don't work for Delta. Tired of hearing some ****************************** brag about flying for Fed Ex, when he flies a Cessna Caravan. When I used to fly cargo in a Chieftain, I never said I flew for UPS.

 

[$$$4nothin]

Outerlimits. When you go to APC and look up your pay rates. What airline link do you click on to see them. It doesn't matter what the name on your ID says. The only thing that matters is how much money is in your pay check and retirement accounts. If it is as much as DELTA it doesn't matter. If it isn't then the "connection" be it small letters or not matter a lot. Just my $.02. Call your self whatever you want, but if your not makeing well over $100k a year "connection" matters alot.

 

[On Your Six]

Hpilot- do you really think furloughing thousands, then releasing scope over and over to the point that half of deltas domestic flights are done by whipsawed connection carriers is the same thing as caravans running for FedEx?
They're flying e170's and CRJ-900's with 76 seats on SLC-ATL
And ATL-CVG, ATL-JFK- how the hell is hub to hub considered feed in these sellouts minds? They'll see both oceans twice in a 4-day and they're supposed to be considered "regional" pilots???
We all know those geeks who used to run turboprops for whoever and say they flew for the major they fed- but you guys don't seem to be getting outerlimits' schtick - it's funny and pretty damn true- the definition of a delta pilot is pretty damn hazy on the domestic side. All about pull the ladder up- think about the numbers here! HALF! Half of all domestic flights operated by "connection" wtf?!? furlough then outsource- once furloughed they don't get a vote and they can keep on pulling the ladder up to benefit themselves. Professional my arse- no bigger offenders in the outsourcing game than a delta pilot. I don't even blame mgmt anymore- why wouldn't they outsource when they know dalpa is so easily bought off.
Sorry, it's a much different employment picture now than 15 years ago when I was running turboprops- these guys are delta pilots. Previous generations were sold out- but not like this. They had to deal with B scales, but at least they got to be employed by the company that provided the passengers. Amazing so many still don't get what pieces of ******************** they are for allowing it. And when I say allow it, I mean show up to work and stay quiet.
Sell outs until you prove otherwise. Most UNPROFESSIONAL among us- (except the 1 scab at spirit)

There are no E170s or CR9s flying from SLC to ATL. That is a lie, or yet another over exaggeration from you. (No CR9s from ATL to JFK either---do you just make this up? Look it up online if you have to and verify) Don't you guys fly coast to coast in a 4 day trip? But wait, your name is "Southwest???" (this is your dumb argument) Shouldn't you ONLY see the Southwest??? Those CR9s and E170s make multiple stops at some smaller airports but then flow onto the hubs and onto the coasts. No two leg transcons between huge cities like BOS-MSP and onto LAX.

High oil is starting to take care of the 50 seat RJ problem, and tightening of scope is almost a certainty in this upcoming contract. There wasn't any extra scope allowed in the joint contract with NWA, which should tell you something. The deeds of the past, that I wasn't a part of, are just that, a thing of the past. They need to be corrected, but it will take awhile, and higher oil is helping. Scope issues are not only limited to RJs, rather Joint Ventures, Code-shares, and others. All are being watched and readied for upcoming negotiations, and talks about more possible consolidation only helps the cause, since management undoubtably wants any possible mergers in the future to be as smooth as the last one. That was a huge advantage over the likes of UAL/CAL, USair, and your mean spirited merger too. Yours will sting for years.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[waveflyer]

Don't call me a liar, mil geek- me and my furloughed brethren had to interview for the right to fly our old routes in RJs-maybe the airline that did that was American, maybe united, or continental, maybe I had recall rights to delta - you don't know and I don't care to share bc the shoe fits to various degrees for all of them. The list of million people markets connected through RJs is very simple these days=all of them. And I personally have been on a -900 from SLC-ATL. So don't tell me delta would never.
Just look at the route maps: this is just two of your connection carriers:

http://www.expressjet.com/wp-content/downloads/routemaps/Delta_RouteSystem.pdf?_=510358264
http://www.skywest.com/routemaps/rm_img/Delta_RouteSystem(JAN12).pdf

If you say it's getting better, good. I will always give you the opportunity to save face and correct it. But until then, sorry- sellouts are all you are. And as junior as you are- like I said- watch your own six- that group has a history that you better know-

 

[Scoot 11]

If you say it's getting better, good. I will always give you the opportunity to save face and correct it. But until then, sorry- sellouts are all you are. And as junior as you are- like I said- watch your own six- that group has a history that you better know-

Waveflyer:
You seem to be a pretty intelligent guy, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. But when you call anyone sellouts, you give yourself the hypocrite tag.
Since when, before 9/11, has Southwest done anything for the better of the industry. Southwest always had lower pay and work rules, including the requirement to buy a 737 type to get hired. Only due to recent (last 10 years) inept management has the legacies floundered. The tide seems to be turning towards the legacies though. Delta will have had 3 years of sustained profitability. First time in a decade. Be careful when patting yourself on the back over nothing you had control over, because that same hand will be used to relieve the same guy you're peeing on!

 

[On Your Six]

Don't call me a liar, mil geek- me and my furloughed brethren had to interview for the right to fly our old routes in RJs-maybe the airline that did that was American, maybe united, or continental, maybe I had recall rights to delta - you don't know and I don't care to share bc the shoe fits to various degrees for all of them. The list of million people markets connected through RJs is very simple these days=all of them. And I personally have been on a -900 from SLC-ATL. So don't tell me delta would never.
Just look at the route maps: this is just two of your connection carriers:

http://www.expressjet.com/wp-content/downloads/routemaps/Delta_RouteSystem.pdf?_=510358264
http://www.skywest.com/routemaps/rm_img/Delta_RouteSystem(JAN12).pdf

If you say it's getting better, good. I will always give you the opportunity to save face and correct it. But until then, sorry- sellouts are all you are. And as junior as you are- like I said- watch your own six- that group has a history that you better know-

YOU ARE WRONG. THERE ARE NO CR9s or E170s FROM SLC TO ATL OR ATL TO JFK. IF YOU FLEW ON ONE ONCE, CONGRATS, it was probably a reposition flight. LOOK in the CURRENT SCHEDULES next time. You could have flown a DL 747 from ATL to OKC back in the late 70s too, but that doesn't mean they fly there today.

And, I haven't been here long enough to have a vote, so don't call all of us sell outs. A lot of that stuff probably went on before those senior guys left prior to the DL BK. Over at my old one those guys are still there, but at DL most of those guys left for their lump sums supposedly. I think the majority of the current pilots wouldn't give an inch, because they had to go through all of this as mid level seniority guys after 9-11. Those senior guys were making the shots then, but then they had to leave for their retirement checks. Don't accuse a group of something unless you know the current dynamic of that group.


Godspeed!

The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

Waveflyer:
You seem to be a pretty intelligent guy, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. But when you call anyone sellouts, you give yourself the hypocrite tag.
Since when, before 9/11, has Southwest done anything for the better of the industry. Southwest always had lower pay and work rules, including the requirement to buy a 737 type to get hired. Only due to recent (last 10 years) inept management has the legacies floundered. The tide seems to be turning towards the legacies though. Delta will have had 3 years of sustained profitability. First time in a decade. Be careful when patting yourself on the back over nothing you had control over, because that same hand will be used to relieve the same guy you're peeing on!

+1000



Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[redflyer65]

So wait a minute OYS....

You guys are going to take back scope AND get a nice, big payraise?


HaHaHa.

Good Luck and GODSPEED, because your gonna need it. I don't think you'll get either....but you keep dreaming a big dream OYS.

RF


Oh, and DL connection does do plenty of hub to hub flying under the Delta banner. Northwest never, ever allowed it...but Delta? Sure, why not?

 

[RiddleEagle18]

Those CR9s and E170s make multiple stops at some smaller airports but then flow onto the hubs and onto the coasts. No two leg transcons between huge cities like BOS-MSP and onto LAX.



Godspeed!


The OYSter

Thats funny. Compass flts I have personally done in 1 day.

IAD-MSP-YVR
DCA-MSP-YVR
BOS-MCI-LAX
LAX-MCI-LGA

any other mesaba or compass guys flown coast to coast in 2 legs.

 

[outerlimits]

Thats funny. Compass flts I have personally done in 1 day.

IAD-MSP-YVR
DCA-MSP-YVR
BOS-MCI-LAX
LAX-MCI-LGA

any other mesaba or compass guys flown coast to coast in 2 legs.

OY6 thinks he knows everything but yet does not . We should all be one seniority list

 

[Fubijaakr]

Saying you fly for Delta when actually flying for a feeder of Delta is kind of like saying you play for the Atlanta Braves when you are playing for their AAA team.

Except he plays for the single A team.

 

[On Your Six]

So wait a minute OYS....

You guys are going to take back scope AND get a nice, big payraise?


HaHaHa.

Good Luck and GODSPEED, because your gonna need it. I don't think you'll get either....but you keep dreaming a big dream OYS.

RF


Oh, and DL connection does do plenty of hub to hub flying under the Delta banner. Northwest never, ever allowed it...but Delta? Sure, why not?

So, ONLY you guys can have the big pay in your BIG 737s? Riight! Talk about dreaming. You are over estimating how cool you really are. You fly to El Paso a lot.

I think we will do just fine, and thanks to us making 4 times the PROFIT you do now, we have a better chance to get a nice pay raise, some work rule improvements, some better scope enhancements, and we DON'T HAVE TO GO TO EL PASO as much as you do, in your 737.

As far as hub to hub flying goes, I think the only one I saw was one daily CR7 from ATL to CVG, and CVG really isn't a shell of it once was, when it was a HUGE Comair hub as I recall. (I went in there in the 737 at my previous employer long ago). What other hubs are you talking about? Maybe 1 E170 late night between MSP and DTW? There may be a couple out there, but not as much as it used to be when oil was cheaper. Keep digging Red, you're trying hard to find something, but it really isn't significant, and our chances of getting higher profit sharing, and more pay on the next contract are better than yours. How much stock or extra pay did you get during the Airtran merger? The DL and NWA guys got at least a 5% raise the first year of their joint contract (NWA guys got more, rates brought up to DL's), and they got over 3000 shares of stock. How about you? You may want to change out those negotiators on your side too. No pay increase or stock? Really?


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

Thats funny. Compass flts I have personally done in 1 day.

IAD-MSP-YVR
DCA-MSP-YVR
BOS-MCI-LAX
LAX-MCI-LGA

any other mesaba or compass guys flown coast to coast in 2 legs.

YOU FLEW IAD-MSP-YVR-DCA-MSP-YVR-BOS-MCI-LAX-MCI-LGA in ONE DAY? That sounds like a Southwest schedule. Congrats on your two leg transcons. It may happen a lot, but all you have to do is look at your paycheck and see the difference. And, those E170s are replaced by A319s in the Summer on those YVR routes, and most of the DCA flights are now mainline aircraft to the hubs. Learjets flying cancelled bank checks do the same thing at night across the country, but they aren't UPS pilots. Just not the same. You carry less passengers and cargo, and have less pull with the people signing the big checks. It's hard to compare the two.

Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

OY6 thinks he knows everything but yet does not . We should all be one seniority list

It's been tried before, but the senior regional folk thought they deserved DOH. That will never float. Get over that, and maybe it can happen. Even an arbitrator can see that, it's called career expectations.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[redflyer65]

So, ONLY you guys can have the big pay in your BIG 737s? Riight!

The OYSter

Yes. Our pay is more than yours in the 737, well for your 747/777 as well. El Paso? I love flying OUR passengers there, in the meanwhile you mostly just outsource every small city there is.

See OYS, your argument is that ELP is soooo below you. Yet you're still clueless to why almost 50% of your domestic feed is done by Connection. Again, I love ELP, LBB, AMA etc... we do our own flying. I know, it's hard for you to comprehend.

Again, the Northwest contract allowed ZERO flying between hubs on Connection aircraft. Delta? It's a free for all. Whatever Anderson wants to do is good.

Stock? Yea, I'm buying it hand over fist right now at 8.50.....err I mean it ends up being at 7.50 with our discount. Just topped a thousand shares, hows your 5 shares at DL doing?

You know and I know once the AAI integration is complete, our profit sharing will be higher. And those AAI guys that you so readily looked down on in the hallways before will be raking it in....with pay and profit sharing. Talk about leepfrogging above you guys!

Good luck trying to pull the Benjamins from Andersons' hand. Your gonna need it!

RF

 

[outerlimits]

It's been tried before, but the senior regional folk thought they deserved DOH. That will never float. Get over that, and maybe it can happen. Even an arbitrator can see that, it's called career expectations.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

You are no better than I. We deserve DOH

Just like you preach

 

[xray678]

You are no better than I. We deserve DOH

Just like you preach

We may be no better, but our jobs are. You can't bring an RJ to the table with guys flying mainline aircraft and expect DOH.

 

[On Your Six]

You are no better than I. We deserve DOH

Just like you preach

That is incorrect according to arbitrators. Most have given relative seniority, and also have placed people in order of career expectations. The Nic award at USair had the top 500 pilots (all flying widebodies as Captains) at the top of that award because the East had international widebody flying, and the West did not. The same could apply here.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[SWA/FO]

That is incorrect according to arbitrators. Most have given relative seniority, and also have placed people in order of career expectations. The Nic award at USair had the top 500 pilots (all flying widebodies as Captains) at the top of that award because the East had international widebody flying, and the West did not. The same could apply here.

jackwagon!

 

[redflyer65]

Stay on topic Mr. Krabs!

Oh wait, you did. Well done sir.

 

[On Your Six]

Yes. Our pay is more than yours in the 737, well for your 747/777 as well. El Paso? I love flying OUR passengers there, in the meanwhile you mostly just outsource every small city there is.

See OYS, your argument is that ELP is soooo below you. Yet you're still clueless to why almost 50% of your domestic feed is done by Connection. Again, I love ELP, LBB, AMA etc... we do our own flying. I know, it's hard for you to comprehend.

Again, the Northwest contract allowed ZERO flying between hubs on Connection aircraft. Delta? It's a free for all. Whatever Anderson wants to do is good.

Stock? Yea, I'm buying it hand over fist right now at 8.50.....err I mean it ends up being at 7.50 with our discount. Just topped a thousand shares, hows your




5 shares at DL doing?

You know and I know once the AAI integration is complete, our profit sharing will be higher. And those AAI guys that you so readily looked down on in the hallways before will be raking it in....with pay and profit sharing. Talk about leepfrogging above you guys!

Good luck trying to pull the Benjamins from Andersons' hand. Your gonna need it!

RF

Remember, I wasn't there at our joint contract, so I didn't get the stock. But everyone else got between 3000 and 3800 shares. So, you keep buying more
of yours, and hopefully you too can get that many, on your own dime?? You should have gotten them via SWAPA.

Those Airtran guys that I what? Looked down upon? I only remember you trashing them, comparing them to slim Jims. That wasn't nice.

I dont expect Anderson to hand over free cash at any negotiation, but higher profits sure helps the cause. I don't think Anderson will keep our widebody pay the same as your 737 pay, and everyone knows it should be higher, especially since the airline is 4 times more profitable than another one we know! I am also glad you like ELP. I just did a Jackson Hole, WY layover. It was fun, and it's a small city. Imagine that! How many small cities will you discontinue on the 717 coming up here? Charleston, WV? Branson? Tunica? Gulfport? Moline? Let's hope they all stick around.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[On Your Six]

Back on topic. I just don't see all of DL and all of AMR merging. Too big. But, the creditors may have other ideas.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[redflyer65]

OYS,

Here's a newsflash for you...we'll do small cities as long as their profitable. Good luck in your negotiations, your gonna need it.

RF

 

[On Your Six]

OYS,

Here's a newsflash for you...we'll do small cities as long as their profitable. Good luck in your negotiations, your gonna need it.

RF

Thanks Red, I think the same goes for us when it comes to small towns. And thanks to profits 4 times the size of yours, I think we have a good chance at major increases in different parts of the contract. Thanks for the good luck wishes.


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[waveflyer]

Wait we might be into something here-
You see outsourcing, and then furloughing to outsource, as a reasonable response to competitive pressures?? Is that what you're saying?
As a legacy pilot I didn't have a realistic expectation that Swa look out for me, I did have that expectation from my union.

So I clearly think that's a sellout's argument. I use that term for a reason. We aren't talking about delta taking paycuts bc Swa undercuts them- you're saying that delta had to outsource because Swa undercut? Am I hearing you right? You'd have never outsourced one RJ if it weren't for LCCs?

So dumb argument's aside- and maybe some Swa pilots can chime in here- to get acknowledge your dig: has there ever been a time when "SWA Pilot" wasn't a well paying career? Funny how you guys like to ignore options Swa paid.
When you complain about how much your CEO takes in- do you ignore his stock options too?

Sure we fly more- but we're also way more efficient- and for my time, having done both legacy and Swa flying- ill take Swa every time. You just don't know until you live it. Not that I need to defend it to a group of sellouts...

Waveflyer:
You seem to be a pretty intelligent guy, so I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt. But when you call anyone sellouts, you give yourself the hypocrite tag.
Since when, before 9/11, has Southwest done anything for the better of the industry. Southwest always had lower pay and work rules, including the requirement to buy a 737 type to get hired. Only due to recent (last 10 years) inept management has the legacies floundered. The tide seems to be turning towards the legacies though. Delta will have had 3 years of sustained profitability. First time in a decade. Be careful when patting yourself on the back over nothing you had control over, because that same hand will be used to relieve the same guy you're peeing on!

 

[waveflyer]

OYS- you get the label "sellout" right along with all your DALPA buddies- look at your attitude towards your connection pilots- you treat them 2nd class all the way, while voting to keep them 2nd class. You don't get it. You don't understand the downward pressure you put on your own wages.
Look- I'm not saying you owe republic or skywest anything- I'm just saying until DALPA as a group votes to take back flying instead of keeping status quo or releasing scope even further- you're a sellout. Why? Bc you show up to work every day when almost half your domestic flying is outsourced. Half. It's an incredible number and way too large to give anyone a pass.
Giving you a pass now would give an opportunity for that same lame excuse DALPA's been providing for 20 years- "I didn't vote for it! I voted no!""Wasn't me!!"
Yeah, right-
You, as a DALPA member in good standing, flying right now- every day, under a contract that outsources so much are a sellout.
And you are until you aren't.
I hope you and yours choose better in the future- but I will doubt you and call you out every day until you ACTUALLY do.
I've heard too many words and promises to be remotely impressed w/ any you provide.
And like I said- you're way too junior to know what I'm talking about- id spend all your energy watching your own back OYS

 

[outerlimits]

Outerlimits. When you go to APC and look up your pay rates. What airline link do you click on to see them. It doesn't matter what the name on your ID says. The only thing that matters is how much money is in your pay check and retirement accounts. If it is as much as DELTA it doesn't matter. If it isn't then the "connection" be it small letters or not matter a lot. Just my $.02. Call your self whatever you want, but if your not makeing well over $100k a year "connection" matters alot.

If you look at it that way then I want to be at Southwest. I hear some of there pilots are making almost 500,000 dollars . What does a Delta pilot make 180?

I guess That is why the Delta pilots are so jellous of the Southwest pilots.


If I go fly for mother Delta, will I be required to drull over the Southwest pilots?