Delta and TPG looking into AMR Corp bid

[chqflyer]

If you look at it that way then I want to be at Southwest. I hear some of there pilots are making almost 500,000 dollars . What does a Delta pilot make 180?

I guess That is why the Delta pilots are so jellous of the Southwest pilots.


If I go fly for mother Delta, will I be required to drull over the Southwest pilots?

You're not really helping your argument guy. You are doing a fantastic job of perpetuating the persona of a completely out of touch, arrogant, entitled and barely literate rj pilot. The rest of us rj pukes truly thank you.

 

[GogglesPisano]

If you look at it that way then I want to be at Southwest. I hear some of there pilots are making almost 500,000 dollars . What does a Delta pilot make 180?

I guess That is why the Delta pilots are so jellous of the Southwest pilots.


If I go fly for mother Delta, will I be required to drull over the Southwest pilots?

No, but you will be required to spell correctly.

 

[BOX OFFICE]

Hello Moderators? Isn't everyone except 4-5 dorks tired of the DAL/SWA fighting?

As for AMERICAN (the title of this thread?), I agree there is no way DAL is a serious contender. They are doing it to pump the eventual price Airways will have to bid. TPG has been a phantom partner before to make a BS bid seem credible. RA knows full well the government would never allow such a behemoth, especially the current administration. Look how the ATT/T-Mobile thing went down... with WAY less overlap than a DAL/AA merger. The government and consumer is getting wise to less competition = less choices/higher prices/worse service. Airways maybe, but DAL will never acquire AA.

 

[Rough67]

Isn't everyone except 4-5 dorks tired of the DAL/SWA fighting?

Yes...

 

[ASADFW7]

Yes everyone is tried of the SWA/DAL fighting. Keep it on topic please.

 

[fam62c]

Yes everyone is tried of the SWA/DAL fighting. Keep it on topic please.

Thank God, it's time to start deleting off-topic posts.

 

[outerlimits]

Except he plays for the single A team.

We ,we Mav...... We both are playing single A and feed for Delta. You are the same ,as me dude .

 

[Luv2BFlyin]

OYS- you get the label "sellout" right along with all your DALPA buddies- look at your attitude towards your connection pilots- you treat them 2nd class all the way, while voting to keep them 2nd class. You don't get it. You don't understand the downward pressure you put on your own wages.

That's an interesting observation of some in another group Wave. Just replace "connection" with "aquired". Good luck with the upcoming Section 6.

 

[Scoot 11]

Wait we might be into something here-
You see outsourcing, and then furloughing to outsource, as a reasonable response to competitive pressures?? Is that what you're saying?
As a legacy pilot I didn't have a realistic expectation that Swa look out for me, I did have that expectation from my union.

So I clearly think that's a sellout's argument. I use that term for a reason. We aren't talking about delta taking paycuts bc Swa undercuts them- you're saying that delta had to outsource because Swa undercut? Am I hearing you right? You'd have never outsourced one RJ if it weren't for LCCs?

So dumb argument's aside- and maybe some Swa pilots can chime in here- to get acknowledge your dig: has there ever been a time when "SWA Pilot" wasn't a well paying career? Funny how you guys like to ignore options Swa paid.
When you complain about how much your CEO takes in- do you ignore his stock options too?

Sure we fly more- but we're also way more efficient- and for my time, having done both legacy and Swa flying- ill take Swa every time. You just don't know until you live it. Not that I need to defend it to a group of sellouts...

Ok. You never answered the question, but now seeing you're "holier than thou" attitude, I'm not surprised.
I'll try it again.
Since when, before 9/11, has Southwest done anything for the better of the industry?
Southwest always had lower pay and work rules, including the requirement to buy a 737 type to get hired. Only due to recent (last 10 years) inept management has the legacies floundered. And now it looks like even the mighty Southwests' model is floundering. How many losses have you experienced lately?
You're also trying to compare Delta vs. Southwest. Southwest cherry picks "profitable routes." Southwest isn't a global airline. You fly to 72 cities in 37 states. Delta is a GLOBAL carrier, flying to 6 continents, so naturally there's going to have to be some source of outsourcing. Can you just imagine flying a 737 into Albany GA? THere's just not enough there to support it. Even the mighty BA, Air France have outsourcing. I'm not supporting it, but there's eventually going to be need for some source of outsourcing to get the feed to be a dominant WORLD carrier.
And never talk of furloughs Wave. Southwest may have never furloughed, but up until recent events they never posted a single loss either. Your walk on water could turn into a drowning affair if you're not careful. The purchase of Air Tran was due to your maxed out expansion, so the only way to do it was the acquisition of Air Tran.
With the pressures of low paying Us Airways, and the recent BK of AMR, things are going to be very interesting in the coming years.

 

[outerlimits]

So, ONLY you guys can have the big pay in your BIG 737s? Riight! Talk about dreaming. You are over estimating how cool you really are. You fly to El Paso a lot.

I think we will do just fine, and thanks to us making 4 times the PROFIT you do now, we have a better chance to get a nice pay raise, some work rule improvements, some better scope enhancements, and we DON'T HAVE TO GO TO EL PASO as much as you do, in your 737.

As far as hub to hub flying goes, I think the only one I saw was one daily CR7 from ATL to CVG, and CVG really isn't a shell of it once was, when it was a HUGE Comair hub as I recall. (I went in there in the 737 at my previous employer long ago). What other hubs are you talking about? Maybe 1 E170 late night between MSP and DTW? There may be a couple out there, but not as much as it used to be when oil was cheaper. Keep digging Red, you're trying hard to find something, but it really isn't significant, and our chances of getting higher profit sharing, and more pay on the next contract are better than yours. How much stock or extra pay did you get during the Airtran merger? The DL and NWA guys got at least a 5% raise the first year of their joint contract (NWA guys got more, rates brought up to DL's), and they got over 3000 shares of stock. How about you? You may want to change out those negotiators on your side too. No pay increase or stock? Really?


Godspeed!


The OYSter

Dude what are you talking about. Look out your window nextime your taxing out of your so called big airport. It is a sea of RJ s....


We soon will even more flying. You might want me to help you get a job here.

 

[Scoot 11]

Hypocrite alert!!!!!!!!!!!

OYS- you get the label "sellout" right along with all your DALPA buddies- look at your attitude towards your connection pilots-

Your pomp and arrogance knows no bounds does it? That fall from grace is going to hit you like a ton of bricks!
After your recent acquisition and treatment of Air Tran pilots, what you need is a nice big cup of STFU!

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

Good post. They won't agree but its the truth. However, something all of us can agree on is that OYS and his/her twin are annoying. Also, I think redflyer must have been former airlinker/dci with his rock of Gibraltar sized chip for anything/everything DAL/NWA. One more thing we all can/should agree on is all of us are underpaid(including swa) as compared to the generation before us.

Ok. You never answered the question, but now seeing you're "holier than thou" attitude, I'm not surprised.
I'll try it again.
Since when, before 9/11, has Southwest done anything for the better of the industry?
Southwest always had lower pay and work rules, including the requirement to buy a 737 type to get hired. Only due to recent (last 10 years) inept management has the legacies floundered. And now it looks like even the mighty Southwests' model is floundering. How many losses have you experienced lately?
You're also trying to compare Delta vs. Southwest. Southwest cherry picks "profitable routes." Southwest isn't a global airline. You fly to 72 cities in 37 states. Delta is a GLOBAL carrier, flying to 6 continents, so naturally there's going to have to be some source of outsourcing. Can you just imagine flying a 737 into Albany GA? THere's just not enough there to support it. Even the mighty BA, Air France have outsourcing. I'm not supporting it, but there's eventually going to be need for some source of outsourcing to get the feed to be a dominant WORLD carrier.
And never talk of furloughs Wave. Southwest may have never furloughed, but up until recent events they never posted a single loss either. Your walk on water could turn into a drowning affair if you're not careful. The purchase of Air Tran was due to your maxed out expansion, so the only way to do it was the acquisition of Air Tran.
With the pressures of low paying Us Airways, and the recent BK of AMR, things are going to be very interesting in the coming years.

 

[waveflyer]

I didn't bring up SWA- my thoughts on delta's outsourcing were cemented well before I was hired at SWA. The thread isn't about SWA- start a new thread about SWA if you want to change the topic. - the thread creeped to outsourcing bc of outer limits comments- and I responded to delta pilots comments to OL- The mods have asked us to stay on topic, and not every opinion of mine has anything to do with SWA-
----------
So again- I never talked about turboprops feeding from Albany, GA, I'm talking about 76 seat -900's flying from large metroplex to large metroplex, and "feeder carriers" now seeing both oceans in a day- and DALPA signing off on that type of outsourcing while pilots were on furlough.
Are you excusing that? Half of your domestic departures, Scoot. Half(!)
Sorry you don't like it, and want to change the subject (so would I, if the facts were as bad as that) and deflect and distract w/ comments about my current carrier- but none of that changes the fact you guys have sold out at a level just barely above a scab, and have done more damage to the career than almost any other pilot group.
I'd hate to hear that too- and get defensive- but until you change and ACTUALLY do something to correct it- you are what you are. Sellouts, with no integrity and no real union. Half the pilots flying your domestic route structure are not on your seniority list, have no vote, are constantly whipsawed in a model you helped create. I don't blame management- why wouldn't they ask for such a divided pilot career?
The onus was, and is, on DALPA to stop that from happening- and time and again, they failed- and mostly bc they just didn't care.

 

[Scoot 11]

I didn't bring up SWA- my thoughts on delta's outsourcing were cemented well before I was hired at SWA. The thread isn't about SWA- start a new thread about SWA if you want to change the topic. - the thread creeped to outsourcing bc of outer limits comments- and I responded to delta pilots comments to OL- The mods have asked us to stay on topic, and not every opinion of mine has anything to do with SWA-

I responded to your quote about "sellouts," and about Delta. You have NO BUSINESS CALLING ANYONE A SELLOUT>>>>>>>>Southwest lowered the bar selling out buying a type rating to get a job, by lowering the bar to the sub standard that is now the high end pay scale. By lowering the bar to accept no retirement, and lousy work rules, pay scales. All before the events of 9-11 changed our work environment forever. You are the epitomy of hypocrisy by calling anyone a sellout Wave!

----------

So again- I never talked about turboprops feeding from Albany, GA, I'm talking about 76 seat -900's flying from large metroplex to large metroplex, and "feeder carriers" now seeing both oceans in a day- and DALPA signing off on that type of outsourcing while pilots were on furlough.
Are you excusing that? Half of your domestic departures, Scoot. Half(!)
Sorry you don't like it, and want to change the subject (so would I, if the facts were as bad as that) and deflect and distract w/ comments about my current carrier- but none of that changes the fact you guys have sold out at a level just barely above a scab, and have done more damage to the career than almost any other pilot group.
I'd hate to hear that too- and get defensive- but until you change and ACTUALLY do something to correct it- you are what you are. Sellouts, with no integrity and no real union. Half the pilots flying your domestic route structure are not on your seniority list, have no vote, are constantly whipsawed in a model you helped create. I don't blame management- why wouldn't they ask for such a divided pilot career?
The onus was, and is, on DALPA to stop that from happening- and time and again, they failed- and mostly bc they just didn't care.

What you talked about was outsourcing, and I answered it. There are all types. I showed you the comparison. You basically fly for a "cherry pick" airline. Delta is a GLOBAL CARRIER. Southwest is not. There is gong to be outsourcing, whether I, you, or anyone else likes it or not. Why don't you bash the Air France guys for selling out their jobs to the Air France regionals? Or BA for allowing AA for outsourcing their flying to their regional feeders flying between the UK and France?
SO, mr. sellout if you don't like the answer don't ask the question.
When you sell out your future brothers at Air tran by taking their captain seats, and not allowing them to fly them til after 2015, then you, by all means, are a SELLOUT!
Good day sir!

 

[On Your Six]

Could this be a reason to possibly buy all or part of AMR?

One very possible reason a full or partial buyout could occur is to disrupt the One World Alliance. Alliances really run the show these days, and disrupting one of the largest ones could be a smart ploy. I don't think the whole airline could be absorbed by the other, with regard to Gov't approval, etc.

Godspeed!​

The OYSter​

 

[On Your Six]

Dude what are you talking about. Look out your window nextime your taxing out of your so called big airport. It is a sea of RJ s....


We soon will even more flying. You might want me to help you get a job here.

Every day oil stays high, there are fewer RJs out there. It's called economics. How many ASA CRJs have been transferred out of the DCI arena and over to UAL? The Saabs are gone, and 50 seaters will go away faster. Look at Comair, they will be down to 44 total planes by the end of this year. That is partially because of that high fuel, and also expensive mx checks that apparently aren't worth doing to Delta. And YES, the DC9s are also going away this year, but 29 MD90s are also coming to MAINLINE, not DCI. Remember, don't hate the playa, hate the game!


Godspeed!


The OYSter

 

[waveflyer]

Scoot- again, i know its probably hard to hear bc youre so used to being at the top- and you dont like a former legacy guy trashing you- but youve earned it. Make less selfish divisive choices and you wont hear it from me. Stop selling out your junior. I do bash all of them-ask fubi what I think of his RJs at Alaska- certainly no legacy has been anything less than terrible at outsourcing- but DALPA was the first major pilot union to allow it anywhere in the world. Leaders on a global scale. And you were the last to allow it to
expand when you went to 76 seats- showed me you've learned nothing.
How was united that close to liquidation and never got more than 70 seaters- CO had been through two bk's and only allow 50's- but delta? 76 in a 90 seat jet is good?

Look man, you clearly don't like any SWA guy bashing you, so don't think of me as a SWA guy- think of me as a legacy pilot, forced onto the street while you outsourced his job-
I'm sorry you don't like hearing from us- but I think you lack all integrity- and show it by your constant excuses for the outsourcing: "we're a global carrier" response "HALF of all domestic flights???" "SWA undercut us!!" r: "no argument, what does that have to do with outsourcing?" "You're a SWA pilot, youreaswapilot!!!!Hypocrite!!!!"
"yeah- none of which has anything to do with the FACT that you have HALF your domestic flights operated by several separate pilot lists all whipsawed against each other"

 

[Fubijaakr]

You are no better than I. We deserve DOH

NOT! You were not hired by DAL nor by an airline merged/bought by DAL. You deserve nothing but an interview IF you ever become qualifed.

We may be no better, but our jobs are. You can't bring an RJ to the table with guys flying mainline aircraft and expect DOH.

Amen.

You're not really helping your argument guy. You are doing a fantastic job of perpetuating the persona of a completely out of touch, arrogant, entitled and barely literate rj pilot. The rest of us rj pukes truly thank you.

Enough said.

You are the same ,as me dude .

Do you ever get tired of being wrong? Do you understand the difference between a codeshare and a CPA? Your comment demonstrates you do not.

 

[Scoot 11]

Scoot- again, i know its probably hard to hear bc youre so used to being at the top- and you dont like a former legacy guy trashing you- but youve earned it. Make less selfish divisive choices and you wont hear it from me. Stop selling out your junior. I do bash all of them-ask fubi what I think of his RJs at Alaska- certainly no legacy has been anything less than terrible at outsourcing- but DALPA was the first major pilot union to allow it anywhere in the world. Leaders on a global scale. And you were the last to allow it to
expand when you went to 76 seats- showed me you've learned nothing.
How was united that close to liquidation and never got more than 70 seaters- CO had been through two bk's and only allow 50's- but delta? 76 in a 90 seat jet is good?

Look man, you clearly don't like any SWA guy bashing you, so don't think of me as a SWA guy- think of me as a legacy pilot, forced onto the street while you outsourced his job-
I'm sorry you don't like hearing from us- but I think you lack all integrity- and show it by your constant excuses for the outsourcing: "we're a global carrier" response "HALF of all domestic flights???" "SWA undercut us!!" r: "no argument, what does that have to do with outsourcing?" "You're a SWA pilot, youreaswapilot!!!!Hypocrite!!!!"
"yeah- none of which has anything to do with the FACT that you have HALF your domestic flights operated by several separate pilot lists all whipsawed against each other"

Wave. Maybe I wasn't so clear on the outsourcing part. Yes, we do it. No I'm not proud of it. No I don't like the fact that we outsource half of domestic flying.
Having read your post, it's obvious you're a furloughed DAL guy who's moved on. You wouldn't be the first one to trash your former employer, and you most certainly won't be the last.
When I talk about calling you a hypocrite, it's not because of outsourcing. Example.....Why don't you go over the the Gulfstream board and tell them they're all sellouts for buying a job.
You obviously didn't choose Southwest as your first choice of airlines. Only after the tragic events of 9-11 did you want a job there. What if 9-11 never happened, and you weren't furloughed? You'd still be here. You'd probably be on the other end of the pendulum talking about how Southwest is still undercutting the legacies.
Let's face it. Southwest has a stellar management team, but the tide is turning. Your posts remind me of the UAL guys in the late 90's. Look at them now. You should really be careful about throwing stones in a glass house.
I understand your anger, but you have no business calling anyone a sellout. Southwest has been selling out the industry for years. The whole "show up for training with a 737 type." The whole, "less than average pay, no retirement, worse work rules....Hence why you are a "low cost carrier." Yes, you are productive. Yes you are better paid. But on the backs of the legacies! You know, those "sellouts," you so proudly trash.
I could care less how you feel now about DAL, just as you could care less about how me or anyone else feels about SWA. I want us all to make more money, and having Southwest around at a time when 9-11 happened, well, who's pay do you think they wanted us to be lower than?
So forgive me for not being more clear on the outsourcing part. I'm not proud of it, but when you call someone else a "sellout," without looking in the mirror, it just shows your ignorance.
Have a good night.

Scoot

And BTW, WTF is the deal with you guys taxiing around at warp speed and getting into the air and doing .77?:laugh::beer:
For guys that are always in such a BF hurry on the ground, you sure fly slow at altitudes. Come on man, just pick up the speed damn it!

 

[waveflyer]

Not delta- just hate outsourcing and hope very legacy gets the damage it does-

So die thread! And apologies for the aggressive drift- I agree w: most others- unless AA ceases it's current form and they part it out (doubtful) I don't see Delta/AA

As for your last question:
Turn around fair play?
Why do you guys taxi so slow and then fly so fast??
We're trying to be efficient- taxiing fast doesn't burn gas and is the best place to shave minutes- the conservation profiles really don't cost much time, though on short haul it's debatable if they actually save fuel