Delta acquisition of NWA almost finalized!

[123]

So far in 14 months, my number has decreased about 200 numbers. I am not sure if retirements, or else. Quick question for you.

As far as the SLI, I am a junior line holder in a widebody. I should be senior to any F/O at NWA who can not hold a line on a widebody, period.

Why don't you run that idea by all the DAL fo's that are senior to you on narrowbody equipment. Tell them that you fully expect that the new seniority list MUST have them junior to you, because you are a widebody pilot, who fly's internationally.

 

[Schwanker]

Ready.....Shoot.....Aim

You think? Have a good one!
Schwanker

 

[123]

How senior does reserve go at DAL? If you live in base, it seems like it can be a good gig.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fin you have time, run the numbers of 88 FO's system wide. It has to be less than 630 or so.

Sometimes you're scary with your numbers, only off by 7.

ATL 387 NYC 82 CVG 55 SLC 89
613

 

[nonstop]

I see dumb people.

 

[Fly4hire]

If past action is an indicator of future results, I think Arbitration Panelists will cancel out the NWA retirements with DAL's pre merger contract, growth, lrager number of retirements and equipment. If there is a correction needed, I think it will come in a form of bid protection, or fence. (not dynamic seniority, but the same effect)

The ratios will be driven by relative seniority based on equipment (stacked in order of pre-JPWA pay).

Too bad the the same arbitrators are not involved or I might by some of your logic. In fact one of the 3 involved ruled on the final arbitration of the NWA Red Book/Green book just recently, and the gist was that (framed in the context of the original Roberts award), that the pre-merger NWA group did not have a continuing right to meter awards based on equipment (Wide Body).

I find it fascinating that many here seem to put more weight on what equipment one is awarded while completely ignoring the demographics of a base/position that allows it to go so far out of normal seniority.

A better litmus test might be what seniority does it take to hold be a ATL 767 intl line holder?

I think it's great that a new hire a DAL can hold a 767 intl' out of JFK, but it's moot, and that somehow that should be protected regardless of the demographics of the pilot group and alignment of bases and aircraft (that is going to change), as if your seniority only matters if it allows for upward movement and not downward.

Thankfully there will be 3 very experienced arbitrators, and I'm confident we will get something much closer to a middle of the road solution than what was seen either at NWA with Roberts, or Nicilou(?).

I also heard that there is nothing to prevent a negotiated SLI to be agreed upon even after the ruling.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Which means that there are approximately 55-60 new hires that will be considered 73Nb FO's. I am glad to be part of that group.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I think that when this is all done. It will not matter what anyone of us wants. It will be fair from the pilots group perspective. If anyone thinks that they are more special than another, they will probably be very disappointed with the SLI. It will look at each group and try to give the equal benefits to each group across the board.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Fins,

The two PWAs were essentially equal. Your's had W2 and ours had QoL and protections. There's nothing to balance.

Nu

Sure ... that must be the reason many NWA pilots went nuts when they thought they might not be brought up to parity.

Again, I think arbitrators will use that as an EXCUSE to make their job easier, they will use it to cancel something factor they can't easily deal with (like a dynamic seniority model, for example). JMHO - means nothing.

 

[~~~^~~~]

A better litmus test might be what seniority does it take to hold be a ATL 767 intl line holder?

I also heard that there is nothing to prevent a negotiated SLI to be agreed upon even after the ruling.

Good points in your post. There has not been much written in arbitration awards about bases and demographics. It appears the tendency is for arbitrators to ignore factors that make it too darn difficult to explain a clear cut rationale.

The ATL767 ER line holders are junior to the domestic line holders. Pilots junior to ACL are holding lines in both domestic and ER flying, but can't do it every month.

It is hard to imagine a scenario where a pilot group makes concessions after an award.

Like ACL wrote, we probably can expect a very logical SLI.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Why don't you run that idea by all the DAL fo's that are senior to you on narrowbody equipment. Tell them that you fully expect that the new seniority list MUST have them junior to you, because you are a widebody pilot, who fly's internationally.

What? I never said that a narrow body pilot who can hold widebody and is senior to me, should be junior to me. What I said was a narrow body F/O at NWA or DAL who CAN NOT HOLD A WIDEBODY at NWA or DAL should be junior to any widebody pilot.

It may be hard for you to understand. Let me try it this way.
You should be able to hold the same equipment the day after the SLI just like you did the day before. Just because DAL has a lot more widebdoies does not mean that NWA pilots should enjoy bigger equipment on top of the much bigger raise you all got.

 

[jetjockey#1]

Your SLI version would first have to put everyone in both companies in the highest paying equipment their seniority can hold, assuming everyone above them is holding the best they can. No offense, but at 14 months I'd say you'd still be an -88 FO.

No offense taken, however, If "joe pilot" can hold a widebody at DAL, and at NWA a pilot can not hold a widebody, explain to me how you think it makes sense for this pilot who has no expectations to fly a widebody NOW, should be senior to a bunch of other pilots flying widebody, by default the NWA would get a windfall, if the day after the SLI he can hold widebody pay, and the day before he did not. If I am missing something, please let me know.

All I am advocating is the day after the SLI we all should be able to hold the same equipment and shedule just like we did the day before. Is that not fair?

And yes, I have contacted my union reps, and it makes perfect sense to them.

 

[NuGuy]

Too bad the the same arbitrators are not involved or I might by some of your logic. In fact one of the 3 involved ruled on the final arbitration of the NWA Red Book/Green book just recently, and the gist was that (framed in the context of the original Roberts award), that the pre-merger NWA group did not have a continuing right to meter awards based on equipment (Wide Body).

I find it fascinating that many here seem to put more weight on what equipment one is awarded while completely ignoring the demographics of a base/position that allows it to go so far out of normal seniority.

A better litmus test might be what seniority does it take to hold be a ATL 767 intl line holder?

I think it's great that a new hire a DAL can hold a 767 intl' out of JFK, but it's moot, and that somehow that should be protected regardless of the demographics of the pilot group and alignment of bases and aircraft (that is going to change), as if your seniority only matters if it allows for upward movement and not downward.

Thankfully there will be 3 very experienced arbitrators, and I'm confident we will get something much closer to a middle of the road solution than what was seen either at NWA with Roberts, or Nicilou(?).

I also heard that there is nothing to prevent a negotiated SLI to be agreed upon even after the ruling.

Heyas F4H,

Excellent post.

I might add that to those who hold up the Nic as some sort of goal, the two companies are in nowhere NEAR the same position that AAA/AWA were. Both airlines are viable and in the black operationally, with reasonably (for airlines) healthy balance sheets.

I could list the rather long list of items that the NWA guys gave up for the new PWA, basically in exchange for cash, but I would suspect that the arbitrators will see that the two PWAs were basically equivilent.

Nu

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

A better litmus test might be what seniority does it take to hold be a ATL 767 intl line holder?

June or so 07 newhires are intermitent lineholders on the ATL7ER. ATL767 (domestic) goes a tad senior to that... I'm a feb07 newhire and I'm almost always 5-10 away from junior lineholder (although I did hold a line in august).

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Agree. I will be a line holder after the AE. I was a line holder in March and am just a few numbers below him.