Delay Gear Extension in icing?

[CRJCptn]

That MEL is for the gear bay overheat sensor(s) being inoperative.

Always fun to explain to the pax that we have to fly for 10 min with the gear down (and to tell ATC we will be doing 200 KIAS)...

 

[pilotyip]

no axe

I fly with many former J-ball pilots and to the last man they say it performed OK in light icing. More than that and you had a problem.




I'm not sure what any of this has to do with the topic. Clearly, you just have an axe to grind.

Please no Ax to grind here, just sharing info from the NTSB report. We use it in CRM training to demonstrate an overbearing Capt., and a non-assertive F/O. I was questioning your original post about being forced to fly airplanes in conditions they were not designed for and having to invent procedures to cope.

 

[buscap]

If you have gear extension problems in a Piper Cadet, you have some serious issues.

Make that an Arrow!!!

 

[DoinTime]

I was questioning your original post about being forced to fly airplanes in conditions they were not designed for and having to invent procedures to cope.

I never said pilots were being forced to fly in conditions that particular airplanes are not well suited for. If pilots were being forced to do this it would be an easier problem to fix. Instead, pilots will go outside an aircrafts envelope willingly and make up crazy procedures to justify it to themselves (and possibly others) that the situation in question is now safe.

Unfortunately, many pilots seemed to be hard wired into a "mission complete" state of mind. This weakness has been and probably always will be the most significant obstacle to air safety.

 

[414Flyer]

As someone who flies in winter icing for a job (I actually seek it out), its hard to foresee a situation where you would need to delay gear extension. Just lower them as you normally would, it should be okay. If you are going through freezing precip that is so intense to freeze up the wheel brakes, you will probably have much bigger problems to worry about soon.

Now if we want to get into flaps usage when I come in rather iced up, its a bit different story, but then I am in C90.

 

[Hobit]

As someone who flies in winter icing for a job (I actually seek it out), its hard to foresee a situation where you would need to delay gear extension. Just lower them as you normally would, it should be okay. If you are going through freezing precip that is so intense to freeze up the wheel brakes, you will probably have much bigger problems to worry about soon.

Now if we want to get into flaps usage when I come in rather iced up, its a bit different story, but then I am in C90.

Please continue....

 

[Flyin2low]

So you are saying JS couldn’t handle the icing conditions? From former JS pilots I have been told that the JS was OK in icing, it handled it like it was supposed to.

The tail on the j31 didn't handle icing that well

 

[414Flyer]

Please continue....

Use Approach flaps, and no more. You do not want to be screwing around with full flaps when you have a significant amount of icing on the airplane.

 

[Going2Baja]

Use Approach flaps, and no more. You do not want to be screwing around with full flaps when you have a significant amount of icing on the airplane.

In a turboprop you have a very good point here if you are flying 91. Best place for the flaps if a missed appch is needed. And as far as stopping, no worries with beta and/or reverse depending on the amount of snow.

However, as previously stated...if your company op's doesn't cover this...don't do it. If you bend some metal regardless of what caused the problem and you were operating outside of company procedures...you're DONE!

Baja.

 

[414Flyer]

Yes, its Pt 91.

But usage of full flaps in an iced up airplane is a safety issue, and I would rather violate some kind of company ops and live, than crash and die.

 

[airplane wizard]

On the Cessna 172, we usually fly with the gear down.

 

[Fltlvls]

On the Cessna 172, we usually fly with the gear down.

Unless it's a C-172 RG

 

[JAFI]

On landing, same procedure as usual to put them down, but we will turn the antiskid off and pump the brakes a few times to brake any ice that could have formed on the brakes.

How do you know that all you did was put the brakes on and then they froze in the ON position? You have no indication that the brakes sprung back in the open position. If you are looking at HYD pressure it would depend where on the brake line the pressure for that guage is measured to show if the brake shoes moved or not or you may not be able to tell at all.

And turning the anti-skid off may work on some aircraft but not others. I've flown aircraft that you could pump the brakes all you wanted, gear up or down and not effect the anti-skid. Some aircraft you were not to touch the brakes until after spin up or you would go into wheel lock. It all dependa on how the system worked.

Unless the manufacturer approves that procedure, You may want to be careful making up your own.

To the question of no gear in icing on approach, for me it would have to be "insane" icing and it would beg the question "why were you landing/flying in conditions you think your aircraft is not capable of operating?"

 

[NEDude]

I fly the Dash 8 and only once did I hold off on the gear. It was really good icing. But then again look how the Dash 8's Landing gear hangs out.

I believe the CommutAir 1900D's were equiped with Brake Deice. Hot Bleed air Lines ran down to the brakes. Great option for flying in the North East.

The 1900D's came with them and we operated with them for a bit, but then in a money savings issue it was disabled. The first winter without brake de-ice there were a few issues of frozen brakes until we all learned the dos/donts.

 

[cldsfr79]

I flew with a guy who insists that you should wait to extend the landing gear while in icing conditions. He said the brakes could not work if you leave the gear down in icing. Being a former frieght dog I was surprised I had never heard of this. What say you guys?

I have never heard of this. Some guys touched on the fact that some companies/manufactures recommend a delayed gear retraction in icing conditions.

Maybe he is mistaken and confused the procedure.

I hope he's not one of those captains that make stuff up, I hate that. Just follow your SOPs and do your job. I flew with this guy years ago that told me the autopilot must be on at 1000 feet. I asked where he read it and he said "the SOPs". So like a good FO at the time, I went back to find this interesting bit of information and could not find it. Long story short, it wasnt in the SOPs, AFM, FOM etc., he finally said "I heard it in recurrent one day" and that was the end of the discussion. So for the rest of the trip he flipped on my autopilot (without telling me of course) eveytime we got to a 1000 feet.