Deal reached on new pilot hours

[pilotyip]

has nothing to do with flying an airplane

I don't agree with that. The purpose of the college thing is to differentiate between an educated person and just another bus driver. That's why a college degree is required at any place worth going to.

At SWA, AT, & JB to name a few, left seats are filled with many pilots who do not have a college degree. It has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Let’s go with a better standard, you must write an ACT of 27 or an SAT of 1250 to get your ATP. That would be better test of intelligence than a college degree.

 

[CX880]

At SWA, AT, & JB to name a few, left seats are filled with many pilots who do not have a college degree. It has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Let’s go with a better standard, you must write an ACT of 27 or an SAT of 1250 to get your ATP. That would be better test of intelligence than a college degree.

Were not talking about intelligence, we are talking about education.

And I know for sure that you have a bout a 0 chance of getting on at JB with no college degree. Might as well play the lottery. We all know every place has those guys with no degree but they usually got on while the getting was good like when the airline first opened and they were just another skybus.

 

[Flyer1015]

I would like to get PAID more! Don't know about "PAYED"

If you're a DTW based pilot who routinely flies into 4L, then the above are one and the same. wink wink

 

[bizicmo]

At SWA, AT, & JB to name a few, left seats are filled with many pilots who do not have a college degree. It has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Let’s go with a better standard, you must write an ACT of 27 or an SAT of 1250 to get your ATP. That would be better test of intelligence than a college degree.

What does an ACT or SAT measure other then one's ability to cram for a singular standardized test? A college degree shows the ability, drive, perseverance of one's ability to pass multiple standardized and unstandardized tests over a multi year period.

 

[Tristar]

At SWA, AT, & JB to name a few, left seats are filled with many pilots who do not have a college degree. It has nothing to do with flying an airplane. Let’s go with a better standard, you must write an ACT of 27 or an SAT of 1250 to get your ATP. That would be better test of intelligence than a college degree.

Once upon a time you could also find presidents of banks, CEO's of major corporations, engineers, and even doctors. They evolved, embraced the concept that being a professional required higher levels of education. Conceivably you could possess all of the knowledge to do any of those jobs without a college degree - what do you think the odds are of being hired or respected within that community?

As has been said, it isn't a matter of the degree being necessary to yank and bank. It is a matter of recognizing that we need to evolve and move forward if we hope to ever improve the profession.

 

[pilotyip]

mnay other ways to prove the same thing

What does an ACT or SAT measure other then one's ability to cram for a singular standardized test? A college degree shows the ability, drive, perseverance of one's ability to pass multiple standardized and unstandardized tests over a multi year period.

completion of a military flight training program shows the same, Amry does not require a degree, completion of a two-year radiation technican at teh two-year jr college, qualifiy as a Nuc Power plant operator in the Sunmarien. These are all tests of one ability to shows the ability, drive, perseverance of one's ability to pass multiple standardized and unstandardized tests over a multi year period.

 

[FO4life]

The thing that I find funny about this whole thing, and I have said it before. Two years ago when I got laid off I had and atp and two jet type ratings with I don't know 2800-3000 hours and I could not get a call from Messaba or pinnical. but you have a Zero to hero with 500 hours getting calls. Just funny, F everybody.

 

[pilotyip]

spleeping plocie

.

Doesn’t the completion of a military flight training program shows the same things? The Army does not require a degree. How about completion of a two-year radiation technician at the two-year jr. college, and qualifying as a Nuc Power plant operator in the Submarine, does that show the same things. These are all tests of one ability to show the ability, drive, perseverance of one's ability to pass multiple standardized and unstandardized tests over a multi year period. BTW Don't want the spelling, paragraph, and grammar ploice t oget atfer me.

 

[acpilot]

Were not talking about intelligence, we are talking about education.

And I know for sure that you have a bout a 0 chance of getting on at JB with no college degree. Might as well play the lottery. We all know every place has those guys with no degree but they usually got on while the getting was good like when the airline first opened and they were just another skybus.

You can "educate" a monkey. That doesn't mean it can successfully operate a door knob.

 

[acpilot]

I don't agree with that. The purpose of the college thing is to differentiate between an educated person and just another bus driver. That's why a college degree is required at any place worth going to.

I'm all for an education requirement! Let's make a 4-year degree in the hard sciences (chem, bio, engineering, etc) a requirement or, if you don't have that, a masters degree in something other than the "fine arts!" In the real world, a requirement like this would do nothing but raise the cost of pilot labor. You probably won't make flying any more safe than it is now.

I know many pilots who are GREAT sticks and only have a HS education. I would rather have an ATP/A&P IA with a GED in the cockpit than an ATP with an MBA, all other things being equal.

If you want to give professional pilots a "professional image," you should be pushing for requirements for graduate degrees/MBA's/JD's. Virtually everyone entering the aviation industry has a 2 or 4 year college degree now. What do those have to do with flying? Nothing! All they do is prove someone was determined enough to get through those degrees.

 

[OrionFE]

I was airline and went fractional. At the airline I was CA for 4 yrs. FO for 3. Interviewed and was sim partners with an Air Force Training CA. He was the worst pilot I have ever shared a sim with.

1. He has almost zero instrument time (they do not fly in wx.)

2. Zero glass time ( I understand that)

3. Cannot hand fly in the clouds.

I can give you his name and number if you are ex AF and do not believe me.

Problem is........We (CIV) do not "plan" the trip for 12 hours the day before. We go out and fly as long as it it safe. We (civ) have the experience to fly in wx planned and forecast and most times beyond that.

Please don't play the Mil. vs. Civ card, because there is no comparison when you are flying for an airline.

I cannot fly a fighter jet. I would love to. But have not been through that training program.

I'm sure most Mil. guy's make it through just fine, but this one was just not working out in the "real" world.

The military flies more than fighter jets! And they actually fly in actual IFR!!

 

[pilotyip]

years

You can "educate" a monkey. That doesn't mean it can successfully operate a door knob.

SWA no degree 2008 JB non degree 2006

 

[CX880]

You can "educate" a monkey. That doesn't mean it can successfully operate a door knob.

You're missing the point. The degree has nothing to do with operating the airplane, or safety. It has everything to do with the quality of the individual at the controls, for the company, for the passengers as well as the poor guy that has to sit next to them for 4 days.

Thankfully most major airlines like UPS have psycho tests you have to pass but you still need a degree to take that test!

 

[acpilot]

You're missing the point. The degree has nothing to do with operating the airplane, or safety. It has everything to do with the quality of the individual at the controls, for the company, for the passengers as well as the poor guy that has to sit next to them for 4 days.

Thankfully most major airlines like UPS have psycho tests you have to pass but you still need a degree to take that test!

No, I get it. Generally speaking, you may be right. Still, to operate a plane SAFELY and EFFICIENTLY, one does not need a 4-year. One of the most knowledgeable pilots I've hired was a HS grad. The weakest? An airline furlough with many thousands of hours.

I wouldn't mind if a degree became a requirement. The more stringent the requirements the better. It would place me in a better position to get a job. I'm all for the psycho tests, too!

 

[bizicmo]

completion of a military flight training program shows the same, Amry does not require a degree, completion of a two-year radiation technican at teh two-year jr college, qualifiy as a Nuc Power plant operator in the Sunmarien. These are all tests of one ability to shows the ability, drive, perseverance of one's ability to pass multiple standardized and unstandardized tests over a multi year period.

I guess i don't get what your getting at? If i sit through 4th grade i qualify for 5th grade and if i sit through 7th grade i qualify for 8th grade. If i go to college and get a degree i qualify for a better job. what are you arguing, that we should just drop all educational requirements of any kind if you just happen to know the right people, you get whatever job those people can refer you to?