Dalalpa Possibly To Sell Out Scope Clause!!

[bravodude]

iron city, though I agree with you the perspective cat is out of the bag.
I think we could consider it a major victory if we limited it to 70 seats or just got them to stop putting 76 seaters on DCI side. But back to the 50 seat is too much of pipe dream. With the 50 going to pasture they will not allow it. 70-76 seat jets is what will be flying at DCI for the next 10 t o15 years.

I love it how everyone is telling us at SWA to hold the line while the majors continue to give away give away!

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I agree, but the fact is that all of these little shiny jets are not owned by the parent company. In fact most of the large RJ's are not. They are owned by the DCI operators themselves. Limits debt burden and liability from DAL's perspective.
That said, many of these RJ operators will not be willing to fork over an aircraft to DAL if we were to bring them back in the fold. (Main Line) Hence the cat is out of the bag. We did it, but what is done is done. I do not think that we can undo it.
Stopping it where it is, is another situation in its entirety. I think that if we had an opportunity now is the time.

As it pertains to SWA. There needs to be something done with your cost structure. Good times are due to only the hedges. It is a great thing to have, but the time on that clock is running out. It is time to look at alternate means of revenue generation for the mighty SWA. I think that they are doing it, and when it comes to fruition, it will once again change the face of this industry.

 

[Clyde]

I TRULY HOPE SO, nothing could do more damage to whatever job protection there is left in the majors. No money is worth relaxing scope again and giving away our jobs.

YOUR job (junior pilot/newhire). Their job (senior pilot) is secure. They just want their $300+ hr. pay back and they see this as an opportunity to get it.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I agree, but the fact is that all of these little shiny jets are not owned by the parent company. In fact most of the large RJ's are not. They are owned by the DCI operators themselves. Limits debt burden and liability from DAL's perspective.
That said, many of these RJ operators will not be willing to fork over an aircraft to DAL if we were to bring them back in the fold. (Main Line) Hence the cat is out of the bag.

....I think that if we had an opportunity now is the time.

ACL: You are a astute industry observer, but, do not make the mistake of thinking aircraft ownership has anything to do with seniority lists. A single list can span different owners and even different airlines.

Examples include Ransom/PanAm, SkyWest/UAL, Republic (Mid Atlantic)/US Air, and others....

ALPA has no ability to negotiate labor provisions for non-ALPA pilots. IMHO ALPA needs to negotiate one list for the ALPA pilots in DAL service and scope restrictions that restrict non-ALPA pilots.

Most of ALPA's scope language is complied with on a voluntary basis. When airlines want to go around scope, they do, and ALPA cleans up by writing concessionary language. We have seen this trend over and over again. You and I were hired at ASA at the edge of a 500 airplane order. Despite all the knashing of teeth, Delta got the airplanes it ordered and then some. The only effect of ALPA's scope policy was to divert airplanes from ASA and Comair to non-union operators.

To be effective ALPA's scope has to include ALPA members and exclude non-ALPA pilots. Scope can not legally restrict the manufacturing and use of a product. Scope as a "remote control" device on a jet is useless.

The most effective scope remains - "All Delta Flying will be performed by Delta pilots." Ownership does not matter, ownership can change in ten seconds with an FAA form AC8050.

All the smartest guys in the room can not change the law and their attempts to go around the labor exemptions to the Sherman Act only weaken the contracts they write.

If Delta Holdings wanted to ignore NWA scope (as a third party trying to bind Delta and Delta pilots), I'm certain they could. Nobody (including management) wants to deal with the political ramifications of ALPA falling apart right now as they need someone at the table to negotiate with.

My evaluation simply serves to emphasize your point, that now is the best time to fix scope language so that it actually binds the parent company and is legally enforceable.

 

[JoeMerchant]

To fan the rumor mill.....there are rumors that the NWA/DAL deal may include a sale of CMR to ASA....Discuss.....

 

[Smacktard]

To fan the rumor mill.....there are rumors that the NWA/DAL deal may include a sale of CMR to ASA....Discuss.....

Does that include CVG? Is CVG safe if the merger happens? Do you buy OH for the assets or for the operation. Man, lots o variables in that rumor...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Joe:

I've been saying a CMR sale was part of this for months. I wondered where the extra flying was going to come from to make Comair pretty for the buyer. The answer appears to be in NWA's DC9 outsourcing to RJ's. My forecast is that the planned (a year ago) outsourcing will go forward with those jets diverted to Comair/SkyWest instead of Compass/Pinnacle.

The icing on the cake is that if NWA's minimum fleet levels drop, triggering a disruption of the RJ flying, those jets can simply be transferred to SkyWest/CMR keeping Delta in compliance with it's contractual obligations to SkyWest.

As pointed out in my post, NWA's job protections/scope is nearly meaningless in a Delta transaction. They not only are easy to get around, they fix Delta's problem of being caught over the proverbial barrell with SkyWest.

Delta of course will be feeding its monster in the basement. As you know, SkyWest has no deep love for Delta and would go head to head with Delta in a heartbeat when the opportunity comes, and the opportunity always comes.

The only effective scope can be getting this flying on one list (which you and I both know ALPA is not going to do, so save your seniority arguements, they do not matter).

 

[Noserider76]

Joe:

I've been saying a CMR sale was part of this for months. I wondered where the extra flying was going to come from to make Comair pretty for the buyer. The answer appears to be in NWA's DC9 outsourcing to RJ's. My forecast is that the planned (a year ago) outsourcing will go forward with those jets diverted to Comair/SkyWest instead of Compass/Pinnacle.

If there is one thing that would end up in a NO vote from both sides at minimum and a job action on the other end of the scale, that's it. If/when the DC-9s are replaced they need to be replaced by mainline jets at mainline wages. We're talking 105-125 seat jets here.

I've never been a fan of this merger and I'm hoping the NWA guys get pissed and scuttle it before it's born.

 

[Superpilot92]

If there is one thing that would end up in a NO vote from both sides at minimum and a job action on the other end of the scale, that's it. If/when the DC-9s are replaced they need to be replaced by mainline jets at mainline wages. We're talking 105-125 seat jets here.

Absolutely agree with the above. You can bet that it would get a BIG NO vote from NWA if that was to happen. We just got a MEC letter last night that clearly laid out the stance of our MEC and i have full confidence that this wouldnt fly.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Noserider:

I'm hearing talk of an end run around membership ratification. They know this deal is going to be unpopular. As for some who post, like Superpilot, he will not be off probation and can not vote. He has not paid dues yet.

ALPA would actually have to fight with management to reverse the trend of outsourcing the DC9 flying. ALPA is not going to stand on this issue and the value of the outsourcing to management is about $500,000,000.00

Since we can not (or will not even try) to stop the outsourcing, we need to ensure these pilots are on one list. Management does not really care who flies the jets, they only care that they can spin the small flying off now for cash.

No one is looking four years down the road when mainline narrow body flying has been 80% outsourced (it is already more than 50% outsourced at DAL) and Delta is paying cost plus 12.5 to 25% for a product that is inferior to the "low cost" airlines.

If we want to return the flying to mainline, we have to begin with one list. Management would not even put up a fight.