Dalalpa Possibly To Sell Out Scope Clause!!

[Smacktard]

To fan the rumor mill.....there are rumors that the NWA/DAL deal may include a sale of CMR to ASA....Discuss.....

Does that include CVG? Is CVG safe if the merger happens? Do you buy OH for the assets or for the operation. Man, lots o variables in that rumor...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Joe:

I've been saying a CMR sale was part of this for months. I wondered where the extra flying was going to come from to make Comair pretty for the buyer. The answer appears to be in NWA's DC9 outsourcing to RJ's. My forecast is that the planned (a year ago) outsourcing will go forward with those jets diverted to Comair/SkyWest instead of Compass/Pinnacle.

The icing on the cake is that if NWA's minimum fleet levels drop, triggering a disruption of the RJ flying, those jets can simply be transferred to SkyWest/CMR keeping Delta in compliance with it's contractual obligations to SkyWest.

As pointed out in my post, NWA's job protections/scope is nearly meaningless in a Delta transaction. They not only are easy to get around, they fix Delta's problem of being caught over the proverbial barrell with SkyWest.

Delta of course will be feeding its monster in the basement. As you know, SkyWest has no deep love for Delta and would go head to head with Delta in a heartbeat when the opportunity comes, and the opportunity always comes.

The only effective scope can be getting this flying on one list (which you and I both know ALPA is not going to do, so save your seniority arguements, they do not matter).

 

[Noserider76]

Joe:

I've been saying a CMR sale was part of this for months. I wondered where the extra flying was going to come from to make Comair pretty for the buyer. The answer appears to be in NWA's DC9 outsourcing to RJ's. My forecast is that the planned (a year ago) outsourcing will go forward with those jets diverted to Comair/SkyWest instead of Compass/Pinnacle.

If there is one thing that would end up in a NO vote from both sides at minimum and a job action on the other end of the scale, that's it. If/when the DC-9s are replaced they need to be replaced by mainline jets at mainline wages. We're talking 105-125 seat jets here.

I've never been a fan of this merger and I'm hoping the NWA guys get pissed and scuttle it before it's born.

 

[Superpilot92]

If there is one thing that would end up in a NO vote from both sides at minimum and a job action on the other end of the scale, that's it. If/when the DC-9s are replaced they need to be replaced by mainline jets at mainline wages. We're talking 105-125 seat jets here.

Absolutely agree with the above. You can bet that it would get a BIG NO vote from NWA if that was to happen. We just got a MEC letter last night that clearly laid out the stance of our MEC and i have full confidence that this wouldnt fly.

 

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Noserider:

I'm hearing talk of an end run around membership ratification. They know this deal is going to be unpopular. As for some who post, like Superpilot, he will not be off probation and can not vote. He has not paid dues yet.

ALPA would actually have to fight with management to reverse the trend of outsourcing the DC9 flying. ALPA is not going to stand on this issue and the value of the outsourcing to management is about $500,000,000.00

Since we can not (or will not even try) to stop the outsourcing, we need to ensure these pilots are on one list. Management does not really care who flies the jets, they only care that they can spin the small flying off now for cash.

No one is looking four years down the road when mainline narrow body flying has been 80% outsourced (it is already more than 50% outsourced at DAL) and Delta is paying cost plus 12.5 to 25% for a product that is inferior to the "low cost" airlines.

If we want to return the flying to mainline, we have to begin with one list. Management would not even put up a fight.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Fin;
Correct from our perspective, but I what I was and am stating is this. DAL would not let it fly. SKW would not let it fly. These regionals fly for too many people. How would they deal with that? The day you hire on they tell you which seniority list you are on. Lots of issues there.
With ASA and CMR that is a different beast, and could quite be a possibility, except for that nagging issue. SKW owns ASA, and they have a very long and solid contract in place with DAL. I cannot see SKW or Republic divesting in other contracts so that they could sign on with one major. That could change but in the current state of the industry that is way too much of a gamble. Ergo, SKW bought ASA to insulate them selves from UAL's woes.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Bravo FIN. I think that you should volunteer for our LEC and MEC. What do ya think?
Remember we are ALPA.

 

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Absolutely agree with the above. You can bet that it would get a BIG NO vote from NWA if that was to happen. We just got a MEC letter last night that clearly laid out the stance of our MEC and i have full confidence that this wouldnt fly.

What a joke. They are so mad and strong they are going to hold a meeting with (DRUM ROLL PLEASE)

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Themselves! Whoa!

Take a DAL MEC press release from 18 months ago, change the dates and you have a current NWA MEC release. The only difference is during those 18 months the DAL MEC was busy building bridges to powerful allies. Not that I underestimate the ability of the NWA MEC to dynamite bridges.

(BTW, not my joke, but worth repeating)

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Or It could just be a set up to . We tried and tried, but with our lousy scope that we had to take on in Ch11, we had to agree to this deal. If we do not go along with this we will be left in the cold.

Oh wait we are talking about NWA not us.

 

[Superpilot92]

Fins,Neither you nor i know exactly what is going to happen. You can sit here and pretend you know what will and will not happen but bottom line is you and i dont know.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

If you say so. I will not take that bait Superpilot.
Contrary to what you think there are a few peeps on this board that know a ton. More than just Occam.
If you look noting is being said by those who are on here and some are just not here. Simply put, we can't.....

 

[~~~^~~~]

Bravo FIN. I think that you should volunteer for our LEC and MEC. What do ya think?
Remember we are ALPA.

ACL: On another thread a letter was posted from a former ALPA EVP, supporting US APA.

It saddened me to read his thoughts, where he eloquently made my case for scope and one list, forty years ago.

I thought his letter was compelling. Perhaps we are better off in independent unions if ALPA national serves only as a restraint on our bargaining. By promoting the outsourcing of alter ego operations ALPA has created a fiduciary obligation to those who would form an RJDC, or the NWDC, as the case may soon be.

This dis-unity results in conflicting alliances that can be fixed by going the high road with unity and one list, or going down the freeway of negotiating contracts that exchange what management wants to benefit the select few at the top.

We've sold so much that I wonder what is left to sell.

Obviously, my political compass lacks the qualities needed for anything other than service on the committee level.

 

[Superpilot92]

If you say so. I will not take that bait Superpilot.
Contrary to what you think there are a few peeps on this board that know a ton. More than just Occam.
If you look noting is being said by those who are on here and some are just not here. Simply put, we can't.....

i know but discussing rumors is pointless to an extent. There may be some truth to some of the rumors which is the only reason why these forums and discussions are worth anything. If you can sift through the majority of the shat you can sometimes find the little nuggets of information that were worth the search.

 

[luckytohaveajob]

then what is the article talking about? So your saying DALALPA isnt going to sell out their junior pilots job protection by relaxing scope just so they can get a little more money? I hope thats not the case.

The senior have already sold out the junior without even having the majority vote. AGE 65.

The senior will sell out the junior with or without the majority everyday of the week. It has already happened time and time again.

Age 65
B Scale
Scope
Pay scales post 911
John Prater
Please add those you can think of

The selfish seniors have not left a legacy but a pathetic path of destruction.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Superpilot:

You and I are pilots. We plan for all sorts of things that are unlikely to happen, like engine failures, fires, security threats.... I've always enjoyed taking the parts and seeing what else can be built with them. (you should have seen my Monster Garage growing up, we literally had a flying lawnmower and another one that operated by mechanical remote control - ~80% of the lawn could be mowed without human intervention).

The FlightInfo hobby is an extrapolation of that same effort. Take the parts that you know, use occam's razor to figure out the most logical trajectory and launch it out there to get other folks' ideas.

You just don't like it when you are confronted with a fact (like probationary pilots not getting a vote) that does not fit your version of the rumor mill.

However, that is the point of intelligent debate. To figure out what works and what needs improvement. I think most of your Kum Ba Yah posts are a waste of space, but my unity and one list quest has certainly wasted even more bits on some server somewhere.