DAL Wants...

[Texx]

Here are the numbers..

They want a "19.5%" reduction in the hourly rates.
They propose $88.93 for a 12 year Capt. on a 100 seat aircraft.

And it goes on and on....

 

[miles otoole]

Here are the numbers..

They want a "19.5%" reduction in the hourly rates.
They propose $88.93 for a12 year Capt. on a 100 seat aircraft.

And it goes on and on....

Hey, but they did get the 190s!!!

 

[ASH]

Wow...

CHQ this, and CHQ that

DAL 12 year $88.93
CHQ 12 year $96.27

"Let's keep the 190's at mainline so we can preserve the mainline jobs, and the great payscales" Blah, blah...

 

[michael707767]

DAL 12 year $88.93
CHQ 12 year $96.27

"Let's keep the 190's at mainline so we can preserve the mainline jobs, and the great payscales" Blah, blah...

'
screw the pay scales. Protect the jobs. We can address pay scales later.

 

[ATR-DRIVR]

'
screw the pay scales. Protect the jobs. We can address pay scales later.

Exactly.

 

[michael707767]

DAL 12 year $88.93
CHQ 12 year $96.27

care to take any bets on CHQ, or any regional getting thru all this without their own pay cuts??

 

[shroomwell]

I second that. It will be alot easier to address the payscales when they don't have anyway to whipsaw. So there is still alot to be said about CHQ this and CHQ that.

 

[ilinipilot]

How are they getting 190s?

D

 

[ASH]

care to take any bets on CHQ, or any regional getting thru all this without their own pay cuts??

CHQ will not give up a dime for growth, that is the overwhelming sentiment. We already have voted on the 190 issue, and did not give up a thing ( in fact gained some benefits ) nor would we give up anything. If you will take the time to talk to the majority of CHQ pilots, not the vocal idiots on boards, you will find that SJS is a rare disease, and all want to protect the profession.

 

[Otto]

Is this for real??!

So what's the source for this? I'll wait unitil I see it confirmed somwhere but these rates would not surprise me since the Jetblue payscale has a EMB-190 12 year captain topping out at $89 an hour! (Thanks Jetblue) I never knew I had it so good at Comair with CL-70 12 year Captains making $94 an hour though I'm sure that won't be lasting much longer. So is anyone else thinking this industry is no longer worth it? Twelve years missing birthdays and holidays to make $89? If it comes to that, screw it...I'm done!

 

[michael707767]

CHQ will not give up a dime for growth, that is the overwhelming sentiment. We already have voted on the 190 issue, and did not give up a thing ( in fact gained some benefits ) nor would we give up anything..

I'm not talking about taking cuts for growth. I am just talking about getting thru this tough period in the airline industry without taking pay cuts. It will trickle down to you. You'll be lucky if you make it thru the next 2-3 years without your management seeking pay cuts.

 

[michael707767]

So what's the source for this?

Source is the negotiators notepad sent to the Delta pilots today. I know you won't believe me till you see it yourself, but I have seen it. Its accurate.

PS this is all what was in the company proposal. Nothing has been agreed to yet.

 

[PCL_128]

I applaud them...

As do I.

 

[jehtplane]

Here are the numbers..

They want a "19.5%" reduction in the hourly rates.
They propose $88.93 for a 12 year Capt. on a 100 seat aircraft.

And it goes on and on....

wow, guess they can not talk shoot about jetblue anymore, and this is not a bash on Delta pilot's whatsoever, just shockingly low pay!

 

[michael707767]

wow, guess they can not talk shoot about jetblue anymore, and this is not a bash on Delta pilot's whatsoever, just shockingly low pay!

yes it is low pay. I hope we can get it up. But, would it somehow be better to say no, then someone else gets the jets, and our junior 700 or so pilots get furloughed, have to apply to JetBlue, and fly the same jet for the same rate?

 

[jehtplane]

yes it is low pay. I hope we can get it up. But, would it somehow be better to say no, then someone else gets the jets, and our junior 700 or so pilots get furloughed, have to apply to JetBlue, and fly the same jet for the same rate?

I am not familiar with this works especially while in bankruptcy, and I hate to use Comair as an example because they are falling under hard times as well, but they also took concessions for growth, which did not happen, which kinda sounds like this proposal, or at least how you just worded it , what is to stop management from securing the payrates and then furloughing anyway. Comair, sorry guys and gals, took it in the rear and basically got nothing to show for it! We do not want your 100 seat aircraft by any means, but sounds an awful lot like concessions for growth to me.

 

[AAflyer]

I am not familiar with this works especially while in bankruptcy, and I hate to use Comair as an example because they are falling under hard times as well, but they also took concessions for growth, which did not happen, which kinda sounds like this proposal, or at least how you just worded it , what is to stop management from securing the payrates and then furloughing anyway. Comair, sorry guys and gals, took it in the rear and basically got nothing to show for it! We do not want your 100 seat aircraft by any means, but sounds an awful lot like concessions for growth to me.

No, I would say this would be concessions for self preservation. This is very different animal.

AA

 

[jehtplane]

No, I would say this would be concessions for self preservation. This is very different animal.

AA

If you say so, and I really mean no dis-respect.

 

[michael707767]

We do not want your 100 seat aircraft by any means, but sounds an awful lot like concessions for growth to me.

one big difference. No growth is promised and we really don't have much choice do we? I mean, what do you think a judge would do?

Lets say we say no, its not enough money. Delta goes to the judge and says "hey, we offered them the -190, and for the SAME PAY as JetBlue. But they said no, so we need to outsource those jets."

Do you think judge would hesitate to say fine, then wipe out the scope, and boom those jets are goine?

 

[miles otoole]

yes it is low pay. I hope we can get it up. But, would it somehow be better to say no, then someone else gets the jets, and our junior 700 or so pilots get furloughed, have to apply to JetBlue, and fly the same jet for the same rate?

with more future job security? You betcha.

 

[MQAAord]

I hope DL doesn't furlough any more guys.

If they were planning on furloughing, would they say so here and now, or wait to drop that ax until later?

 

[FlyinScotsman]

You "mainline" guys are kind of pi$$in me off. You have cried for years that the regionals have taken your flying, taken your routes etc. The regionals have "lowered the bar" to get more growth, bigger airplanes etc. You have bitched that "if only they would stand up and not take it anymore" "stop the race to the bottom" The regionals have only done this because it has (they think) benefitted them, with quick upgrades and the like. Now that you have to make the choice of take a stand or lose out, you fold like a house of cards. You could now be accused of "lowering the bar" to save yourselves, which I guess is okay because you work for a mainline carrier and must be saved at all costs. I call BS, practice what you preach. Don't "lower the bar", take a stand, take one for the team and some other choice sound bites I have heard over the years. Seesh..... It Sure Sucks When The Shoe Is On The Other Foot.

 

[pilotyip]

USA Jet DA-20 11 year Captain $102/hr

 

[IAHERJ]

I had a Delta pilot friend joke with me in the ATL airport a few months ago about my Airtran "Mexican payrates". I blew it off and changed the subject and asked about his family. He brought it up again. He is a second generation Delta pilot. I wasn't proud of our pay at the time and am not today. I will say that our pay is ahead of Delta's proposed pay for similar sized aircraft by a long shot. What has this industry come to?? My friend is really just an aquantance from college and tonight I really don't feel for him one bit. His airline is now bringing down the industry. A sentance I never thought I'd write.

IAHERJ

 

[General Lee]

I just saw the proposal and it stinks. I guess when your company is in court, they can ask for whatever they want. Not all will be agreed to, and there should be a little negotiating (a little). As far as the 100 seater, I expected there to be a rate close to Jetblue's, since it is now the benchmark. There wasn't anything about paying double over 70 hours though, and I don't think the company wanted it. I will press ALPA (as much as I can alone) to keep scope and to get the pay rates later. The pension will be gone, which is something the NW guys don't want to give up since they didn't have the 1/2 lump sum deal. There are other things that really bothered me reading the proposal, but Scope is my number one thing.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FlyingSig]

and tonight I really don't feel for him one bit.

Actually...that statement alone speaks volumes about the state of the industry moreso then what mamagement proposed to the union....

A sad state indeed....

 

[General Lee]

IAHERJ,


Remember, we aren't allowing it, the judge is. We brought the bar up to the highest it has ever been, and we should ALL strive to be paid well---very well. His comments might have been mean, but we all should know the difference between allowing the rates to happen, versus them being put on top of you. There really isn't much we can do about it.

And, you don't feel for your "friend" tonight? You're a great friend.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[AnimalTale]

ALPA needs to make a stand, if they have B@lls.

By the way, if these payrates stick, the whole industry will see it and suffer via trickledown effect.

SOS------------>is the only way to stop the downward spiral and get the momentum on our sides.

cya

 

[ilinipilot]

Tie the pay rates to manangment compensation. You will take them ONLY as long as every manager does not get a raise, bonus, ANYTHING. The second the management get a raise, bonus, anything over a predetermined limit the contract snaps back.

MAKE MANAGEMENT FEEL THE PAIN LIKE WE ALL HAVE

 

[GCAP]

I can't believe that every post here is accepting this company proposal as a done deal. I, for one , am ready to do anything to stop the rape of what is left of our contract. I am looking foreward to the fight. Michael707 and General Lee sound like they are ready to cave in. Remember, GE and AMX are putting up 2B to finance this BK. I would rather strike or find some other way to burn through that 2B than accept any part of that crappy company proposal. You guys sound like you haven't read the entire document. If you have, go back and read it again. If even half of the proposal is forced on us, Delta will be the worst airline in the ccountry to work for. I say Fight to the end. Frick GG

Ignore my profile...Iam an active 800 capt