DAL junior Pilots sold down the river by NEW MEC

[Whine Lover]

Okay then:

- The New Delta has NO overlapping routes.

11 Routes - Wow!

- Delta is NOT shedding gates.

170 Gates WORLDWIDE. But I'm sure we need to have our operations in different terminals in places like BHM.

- The Delta MEC has given away nothing.

So are you saying they also gained nothing?

- The U.S. Economy is NOT in a free-fall.

And, thousands of people are NOT losing their jobs in this country.

So far none at Delta Air Lines that didn't volunteer to leave themselves.
I stand corrected.

Thanks.

Your welcome.


------------------------------------------------

Man. Now that is some interesting "logic".

Look, People are losing jobs, the economy sucks...let me spell that out for you...Fewer dollars are being spent that will find their way into Delta's ( everyones ) coffers.

You are losing gates, you are outsourcing flying, and things ain't lookin' too rosy for anyone.

If I was near the bottom of the list I'd be developing a stategy for the worst ( furloughs ), while hoping for the best. It's that simple.

Minimalizing and rationalizing simple facts is NOT a strategy. Nor is wasting time blowing air on a message board as to why the facts are NOT the facts.

I'm done.

Good luck.

YKW

 

[N2264J]

I think Moak and company are walking a fine line, and will be smacked if they try more stuff like this without polling the pilots first.

First they will poll you...then they will pole you.

 

[Superpilot92]

Teetering?? Teetering!?!?

How much more damage needs to happen before they are over the edge in your opinion??

Compass wasn't enough? 76 seat jets by anyone wasn't enough? 255 70-76 seat jets isn't enough? More scope giveaway in exchange for a useless no-furlough clasue isn't enough?

It needs to happen now.....not after the rest of the damage is done.

Bad wordage on my part, I believe they have fallen off the cliff. My point was we either fix alpa or go to a DPA. We have to have representation and personally i dont care if its ALPA or DPA i just want representation that works for US, the pilot group, and not ALPA the Business or as mgmt puppets. This issue needs to erupt and people need to be pissed that Moak has his own agenda and isnt fighting for whats best for our pilot group as a whole.

Also anyone who is quoted saying "RJs are good for our careers" should NOT be in a leadership position. There is nothing good about outsourcing OUR jobs and upgrades. We need leadership that will draw the line and stand firm, not leadership that makes big decisions on its own wile rolling over to mgmt. What happens when/if mgmt comes to these guys and says we need 99 seaters flown at a regional? Will they roll over and give it away without considering the pilot group? Anyone not willing to stand up and put a stop to the cancer after seeing the destruction it has done to our industry needs to be removed from the decision making positions.

Everyone needs to bring their pitchforks out and email reps and even moak. If they wont fight for the pilot group as a whole they can step down. The union is supposed to work for the pilot group and evidently some of these people seem to have forgotten this.

 

[Superpilot92]

I am extremely disgusted by the union, but not surprised. I have been saying here for years now to watch out for Moak. He will cave on scope everytime it's an issue. This will not be the last time.

It will be if we can come together and have the clowns removed. We need people who will represent the group as a whole. Moak doesnt hold the line he has proven over and over that he crosses the line on scope and we can not have that. Scope giveaways, RJs, and Outsourcing is a CANCER in our industry. WE must fight it, midwest proved that scope is a MASSIVE issue that must be protected.

 

[Capi_Cafre']

Where did you fly an A-320? The reason why the company wants us replaced is because 170 captains make less money than DC-9 first officers. We need our union to protect us from this. They are failing. You regional pilots that are super excited to fly your CRJ-900 or Emb-170 are part of the problem also.

Make that "fly your CRJ-900 or Emb-170 for peanuts" and you're a little closer to the truth. That doesn't change the fact that the real blame for the damage done by outsourcing lies squarely on the shoulders of the mainline MEC's that have permitted alter ego flying. Nobody with even a passing familiarity with the history of the small jet issue should be surprised by DALPA's involvement here.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Can't wrap my mind around this language yet. But it seems dull and not very binding. Lawyers, the right lawyers, could possibly have a field day with it.

Let me explain. Our JCBA was apparently written by pilots, not lawyers. The Company now has too many 76-seaters. When challenged, they said, "We don't see it that way. Why don't you let us fly them anyway and if we furlough, then we'll comply with the JCBA. Another martini?"

 

[C-150ETOPS]

The "New" Delta: Fly with us, we are the world's largest prostitution ring.


Thanks for the help General Lee. I would have thought that even a village idiot in this industry would have realized "no furlough clauses" are worthless. I thought our AA guys were bad, you guys are truly the "Fluffers" of the airline industry. uke:

 

[hockeypilot44]

Okay. I've calmed down a little bit. Someone PLEASE correct me. I think I am missing something. Delta has 21 more 76 seaters than allowed with 9 more on order. Moak settled a grievance allowing it without input from anyone else. In return, the company has to follow the contract only if we furlough. Without this settlement, the company would have to follow our contract now, but since they are not, we would have to go to arbitration and the courts to enforce it. What am I missing? I just keep seeing us giving away jobs for nothing in return. There has to be more to it. No one is that f*cking stupid or selfish. Moak has to have been bought off. He needs to go. All of ALPA needs to go. Let's start the decertification process. I'm pissed off again.

 

[zman]

I agree with you hockeypilot, when you do the numbers it doesnt make sense to give up something for nothing.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Hockeypilot:

After you decertify - what next?

A weak in house union? No union? Teamsters, who destroyed scope with their support for the GoJets fiasco?

I completely understand your frustration, but we need an end game pretty well figured out before we harm our bargaining Rep. In a decade, I have not been able to figure out a better end game than to try to fix the union we have. Go to your LEC meeting, run against your Reps, try to turn the political tide... etc.

 

[hockeypilot44]

Hockeypilot:

After you decertify - what next?

A weak in house union? No union? Teamsters, who destroyed scope with their support for the GoJets fiasco?

I completely understand your frustration, but we need an end game pretty well figured out before we harm our bargaining Rep. In a decade, I have not been able to figure out a better end game than to try to fix the union we have. Go to your LEC meeting, run against your Reps, try to turn the political tide... etc.

We're already giving things away for nothing in return. Can it really get any worse than that? I don't think it can. If you really want my opinion, I think we should shut the entire airline down. I would be up for a strike illegal or not. We need to set an example and make the company afraid of us. Make them fear breaking our contract. It would give us some credibility back. Right now we have none.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Hey FIN r u going to the meeting on Friday.

Anyone else going to local 44?

 

[~~~^~~~]

Hockey - I'd do it. Illegal or not. The majority would not.

Of course, while we protested, RJ's would fly over our heads with our passengers in them. RJ pilots would go to sleep dreaming of shiny 737's and A320's (does anyone "dream" about an MD88? I dunno)

We really can't win until we get our Reps on the same page and change people's minds about outsourcing.

ACL65: My people constantly change my schedule and I sleep in a different place every night as part of the protection program. If "Fins" announced he was coming to an LEC meeting...

:uzi: :uzi: ............................. "" :erm:
​

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Well e-mail me and tell me if I should bring a second cup of coffee on Friday AM.

 

[Sedona16]

Let me explain. Our JCBA was apparently written by pilots, not lawyers. The Company now has too many 76-seaters. When challenged, they said, "We don't see it that way. Why don't you let us fly them anyway and if we furlough, then we'll comply with the JCBA. Another martini?"

The company knew exactly what they were and are doing. The constant give aways sends one clear message....the company will ask for and get more in the future thanks to Moak.

In the mean time....

On January 8, 2009, SkyWest announced an award of ten additional CRJ900 regional jet aircraft by Delta. These aircraft will be operated by ASA, as Delta Connection, from the Atlanta hub. Delivery of the aircraft began in January 2009 and is expected to be complete by May 2009

With the merging of Northwest Airlines into Delta, Mesaba as part of the overall merger and a subsidiary of Northwest Airlines Inc., will be undergoing numerous changes. One of which will be the relocation of a portion of the Saab 340 fleet to Atlanta. Delta has also allocated to Mesaba five more CRJ-900s to be operated out of Salt Lake City.
Mesaba Will Fly The Five CRJ-900's for Delta Connection starting February 12th, 2009 with destinations Las Vegas, San Francisco, Denver, Houston, Dallas/Ft Worth, Minneapolis/St.Paul and Phoenix among others.


http://www.airlinepilotforums.com/regional/14272-new-crj-900-ordered-mesaba-compass.html

Northwest Airlines Corp. is adding 72 new 76-seat jets through next year. Half will be Bombardier CRJ-900s flown by its Mesaba subsidiary and the other half will be Embraer 175s flown by its new Compass subsidiary. Both include a dozen first-class seats, and the cabin is roomier than on Northwest's other regional jets. Delta Air Lines Inc. plans to fly 77 dual-class regional jets by the end of 2008, and United regional partners now fly about 115 70-seat jets with coach, first-class and an Economy Plus seat with extra legroom.

Delta spokeswoman Betsy Talton said business customers have been asking for the regional first-class seats for years. The aim with the new jets is "to make it all more seamless and more like the mainline jet experience," she said.

 

[ASA_DFW]

ALPA meeting this Friday, the 13th? If not what date and time?

 

[ACL65PILOT]

DAL COUNCIL 44 MEETING NOTICE


DATE:
Friday, March 13, 2009

TIME:
10:30 a.m.–2:00 p.m.
PLACE:



AGENDA:
1.Officer Reports
2.Old Business
3.New Business
-Lee Moak¾MEC Chairman
-Jim Van Sickle¾MEC Vice Chairman
-Bob Hesselbein¾MEC Secretary
-Kingsley Roberts¾MEC Treasurer

 

[ACL65PILOT]

PM if you need the location. I will not put that on here

 

[FUZZO]

ACL65,

Did you hear the rumor yet that there is a group trying to get ALPA off the property at Delta?Apparently there is a group working on putting it together. Just curious, I have only heard this from a couple of other pilots. Gotta be better than what we have. At the least DALPA should allow membership to revote for all positions since the playing field and envirornment has changed. Oh well.....rant over

 

[~~~^~~~]

March 13th isn't this Friday. But I'm all for visiting the MEC office and trying to score free food.

D'OH

Holy crap the wind is blowing around here! Lawn furniture just achieved VR, although it appears the chair's VMC relies mostly on ballistics.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yeah I just had some stuff fly across my lawn.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

ACL65,

Did you hear the rumor yet that there is a group trying to get ALPA off the property at Delta?Apparently there is a group working on putting it together. Just curious, I have only heard this from a couple of other pilots. Gotta be better than what we have. At the least DALPA should allow membership to revote for all positions since the playing field and envirornment has changed. Oh well.....rant over

As much as I do not like where DALPA is going, de-certification is NOT the answer here.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If it looked like an American Flag, a Parrot, a brown lawn chaise lounge, a Pink Flamingo, Porn or one of my crappy foreign sports cars.... bring it back

Is there a meeting on February 13th? I saw March.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

No March 13th.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

I was e-mailed the 13 of Feb, and then the official meeting notice came out for a month later. From what I hear the ALPA guys are in France. I cannot tell you why though.

 

[~~~^~~~]

If I just settled that scope grievance, I would tell people I was in France.

 

[701EV]

If I just settled that scope grievance, I would tell people I was in France.

Hey Fins, now thats funny!

When are we going to the Rib Ranch?

The sun is shinning over here now.

701EV

 

[Capi_Cafre']

...Teamsters, who destroyed scope with their support for the GoJets fiasco?

Destroyed Scope? I agree with the fix it/don't fire it sentiment with regard to ALPA, but suggesting that the IBT's decision to represent those scumbags after the fact had any causal role is ridiculous. GoJet is the spawn of ALPA's misguided small jet policy; the Teamsters had a choice between doing the right thing and taking the money, and they chose the money.

 

[General Lee]

The "New" Delta: Fly with us, we are the world's largest prostitution ring.


Thanks for the help General Lee. I would have thought that even a village idiot in this industry would have realized "no furlough clauses" are worthless. I thought our AA guys were bad, you guys are truly the "Fluffers" of the airline industry. uke:

Say what? I wasn't allowed to vote, and I would have voted NO. But, so many here are getting their panties in a wad. There will be 255 70 seaters eventually, and less 50 seaters total. We have allowed that many, and eventually it will be that way. I know Force Mejeur could be used, but you have to back it up or it will be overthrown, just like it partially was with Bloch after 9-11. Could some people be furloughed in the meantime? Sure. Gotta have a backup plan. I do think Moak needs a reality check and he will probably get one soon. He's got some "splainin" to do. And, we don't really know what will be happening with new (or used) aircraft coming up here, so let's let Moak tell us what great things are coming up for us. If he doesn't, he is toast.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[FBN0223]

And, we don't really know what will be happening with new (or used) aircraft coming up here, so let's let Moak tell us what great things are coming up for us. If he doesn't, he is toast.


Bye Bye--General Lee

I think he's toast anyway. How many more Delta jets are we going to let non-Delta pilots fly?