Crappy Pay Offered At Nja

[gunfyter]

Grump - dont skimp on the details now...

Humor me and tell me, in detail, where the logic is wrong -

again, in your own words (and the union's):

• Pilot median pay was under $50,000 three years ago
• Pilot median pay now is $60,984
• Pilot median pay has risen at least $11,000 in three years

So how did median pay increase at least $11,000 in three years if you are not getting raises from the company?....

The problem is median pay is NOT 60.984

Its in the low 50's. ie just barely over 50. 3 yrs ago it was $47K.

About 1/2 of what it needs to be. 50%.

 

[steel]

FG, do you need a friend? You seem to be upset? Are you allergic to apostrophes? I'm not mad. If you think I was complaining, then I'm sorry because I wasn't. I was stating opionions and FACTS, unlike your DJing spinmaster writing.


You know we will win. I'm sorry you don't understand. Your blood pressure is getting high. This isn't healthy for you.

 

[GVFlyer]

Sorry, you really don't have a clue do you.

...The problem with that is-
2. Berkshire Hathaway is a privatly owned company.

Berkshire Hathaway is a publicly traded company. They issue BRK.A and BRK.B stock. I have BRK.B stock in my portfolio.

Think single carrier suit and that is the catch 22 of why the union will always be here.

If a single carrier suit were legal and possible, the Teamster's would have already filed it.

GV

 

[steel]

Berkshire Hathaway is a publicly traded company. They issue BRK.A and BRK.B stock. I have BRK.B stock in my portfolio.




If a single carrier suit were legal and possible, the Teamster's would have already filed it.

GV

Keep dreaming. It will be done. Just do all of us a favor. When you are over here and are someone's FO, just do your job and get the papers, ice, coffee, catering and clearance and let us know when it's done.

Repeat after me.....STAPLE, STAPLE, STAPLE

 

[Hawkered]

Well actually, you're both right...and you're both wrong.

IBT 1108 has the right to negotiate in its Collective Bargaining Agreement for all flying covered under the arrangement with the owners. The company can counter this request by paralleling all working conditions and make the operational argument for redundancies due to power outages, natural disasters, security breaches or terrorist attacks on US soil.

The truth is, the company might or might not win this argument. AMR lost its suit against the regional affiliates (Simmons, Executives, Wings West etc), for the purpose of collective bargaining under the American Eagle umbrella. Robert Crandall made it the habit of moving his own affiliates around to undercut each other in the same markets he controlled anyway, the courts didn't like that.

Any merger of lists would also end up falling under arbitration and would probably go in a ratio of date of hire...very rarely does the union stapler get used for this, as was the case with TWA/American.

 

[Ultra Grump]

Grump - dont skimp on the details now...

Why not? I asked you a question and got the same answer from you...

NBAA wages have as much bearing as airline wages do - very little - for all the reasons previously hashed out on this board.

Okay for you, but not for me, huh?

Humor me and tell me, in detail, where the logic is wrong -

So how did median pay increase at least $11,000 in three years if you are not getting raises from the company?

I never said that we weren't getting raises from the company. What I have tried to get through your thick skull several times now is that longevity raises do not compensate for COLA. A 5th year captain in 1998 was paid $60984. A 5th year captain today, 7 years later, is paid $60984. There is NO cost-of-living increase!

The reason the median pay has increased is because 3 years ago, there were 1265+ 1st-, 2nd-, and 3rd-year-pay guys, with many still on FO pay. They are all making captain's pay now, and 900+ of those are on the 5th year scale or above. The median would be even higher if there had been no hiring since - but that doesn't mean that the pay would have actually increased more, does it?

 

[gunfyter]

Grump

He does not understand that you can walk in and do his job tomorrow or with a couple of weeks training... but it would take years for him to be able to do your job ... IF EVER.

 

[GEXDriver]

[GVFlyer]- Keep dreaming. It will be done. Just do all of us a favor. When you are over here and are someone's FO, just do your job and get the papers, ice, coffee, catering and clearance and let us know when it's done.

Repeat after me.....STAPLE, STAPLE, STAPLE

GVFlyer is a former Gulfstream test pilot who went to work for one of Gulfstream's Fortune 100 customers as a senior captain. There, he earns a multiple of what the max pay at NJI is, so I don't think you're going to get him to come to work for you. I think he probably earns more in his spare time as a consultant for Gulfstream than you do in direct compensation at NJA.

 

[Hogprint]

And you consistently forget to mention the 6-5 schedule at NJI, the larger aircraft, the higher productivity, the more flexible work rules, and the avoided cost of having to deal with the bureaucracy of a union.

Higher productivity? Please explain. Just how do you define productive? This ought to be good!

Flexible work rules? Don't we all work under the same rules? Did the FAR's come out with Gulfstream specific rules?

 

[GVFlyer]

Berkshire Hathaway is a publicly traded company. They issue BRK.A and BRK.B stock. I have BRK.B stock in my portfolio.




If a single carrier suit were legal and possible, the Teamster's would have already filed it.

GV

Keep dreaming. It will be done. Just do all of us a favor. When you are over here and are someone's FO, just do your job and get the papers, ice, coffee, catering and clearance and let us know when it's done.

Repeat after me.....STAPLE, STAPLE, STAPLE

Thanks for your sentiment.

I don't work for NJI and never have. I can, however, recognize a premier organization where pilots and management work together to grow the company and take care of pilots. I was flying for Gulfstream Flight Test when the company was formed. Rick Schwartz and Peter Honchak did the initial interviews in offices in the Customer Lounge just accross the hall from Gulfstream Flight Ops while Joe Murphy shuttled back and forth between Savannah and Montvale to hammer out work rules, compensation, and home basing. The pilots they hired have worked hard for 10 years to make NJI a great place to work.

I flew with them in the 90's. We had a couple of 1/8th shares and under NJI's rules the owning companies' pilots can fly in command on NJI aircraft as long as they meet NJI qualification and experience requirements as well as passing written, oral and flight checks. As such, I flew as a NJI Captain on our share aircraft for over a year and got to know many of the line pilots. Some of the pilots I had known previously from the Gulfstream community at Andrews AFB. All were dedicated professionals. I also know the Okatie leadership group from our efforts in initially establishing the EJI program as well as from working special joint projects with them. I think I have a pretty balanced view of the organization and it is my observation that the NJI pilots are a very happy group with the company that they worked together to build. They don't need or want your union.

The initial contract forged by Gulfstream and EJI was not any kind of a lever against NJA as many here have suggested. The contract was a Bill Boisture - Richard Santulli deal. Forstmann and Santulli are too much alike to have gotten along easily. Gulfstream provided the first three "core" aircraft because Santulli could not capitalize the deal at that time. For brand protection, Gulfstream demanded that only internationally experienced Gulfstream captains with 2500 hours in type be hired for the new venture. Safety was to be a key marketing point and buyers would be guaranteed highly qualified Gulfstream pilots. To draw and retain the kind of pilots desired, starting and subsequent salaries were set to be industry standard (and still are).


The existing relationship between NJI and Gulfstream is a close one. Raynor Reavis was VP for Gulfstream Shares, left Gulfstream to work with Keven Russell as Vice President for NetJets Sales, then returned to Gulfstream where he is presently Vice President Sales and Marketing.

My guess is that Berkshire Hathaway and General Dynamics / Gulfstream are in negotiations and will find it mutually beneficial for GD / Gulfstream to purchase NJI in order to complete their marketing line-up just as Citation, Raytheon, Bombardier and other airframers have done. Gulfstream presently offers charter through Gulfstream Charter Sales, lease through GFS, small through large cabin aircraft with the G100, G150, G200, G350, G450, G500, G550 aircraft lines, but has no fractional company.

GV







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