CR-700 Displacements at ASA?

[bailout]

As I said, look at the whole picture. There are still some EMB guys in DFW that have EMB-DFW still on their bid sheets, which means when the EMB flying is over (just about is, still have some downgrade flights) those guys get to go wherever they want as long as their seniority can hold it. If they want the 70, they get it, (seniority dictating), so pilots below them get pushed off the plane and back to the 50, or wherever. For some reason the company doesn't mind being way overstaffed on the 50, but not the 70, probably for pay reasons.

 

[sleepy]

Unfortunately for the ASA flight crews, mgmt and ground service would be the reason for 70-seat transferrals to CMR. Like fins said, the only difference who flies into ATL is who is sitting in the cockpit waiting for the ground crews.

There is nothing worse than being told you're going to get something, and then have the rug pulled out from under you (CMR at DFW). I wouldn't blame you for being upset, however, make sure you blame the people who caused the problem...ASA ground crews and mgmt, not Comair pilots. If it does happen, I strongly doubt Comair mgmt would turn down the aircraft in sympathy for another airline's pilots; nobody would.

Labor Relations-101: Use your work groups against each other to get what you want.

Delta pilots already took the bait...hook, line and sinker. I hope it never comes to that with ASA/Comair pilots, and it shouldn't as long as we remember who's pulling the puppet strings.

Don't forget however that all we know for sure is that some ASA 70-seat pilots are being displaced. Aside from that, its all speculation.

I look forward to Comair opening contract talks in a few years. I can't wait to fly your former aircraft (remember that we didn't do that during your strike, but now we see how you guys are). I look forward to opening a CVG hub. Hopefully we will get all of your planned growth.

What goes around......................

 

[miller22]

I look forward to Comair opening contract talks in a few years. I can't wait to fly your former aircraft (remember that we didn't do that during your strike, but now we see how you guys are). I look forward to opening a CVG hub. Hopefully we will get all of your planned growth.

What goes around......................

So it starts...

 

[rjcap]

The only displacements so far on the 700 are FO's due to their lack of seniority and in conjunction with the EMB retirements. No Cpts on the 700 have been displaced. It is only a rumor that has been floating around for quite a while. We will see when the Oct prelims come out on the 16th or 18th.

Their is absolutely no credibility to any rumor that ASA 700 deliveries have been diverted to someone else. The only question is whether they go to DFW or ATL. I have heard both rumors regarding the domicile placement for these aircraft.


The rest of these rumors are pure garbage.

I look forward to Comair opening contract talks in a few years. I can't wait to fly your former aircraft (remember that we didn't do that during your strike, but now we see how you guys are). I look forward to opening a CVG hub. Hopefully we will get all of your planned growth.

Sleepy, that was in incredibly stupid thing to post.

 

[FL000]

I can't wait to fly your former aircraft (remember that we didn't do that during your strike)...

Actually, we did. I don't think this is where this needs to go. It's not the Comair pilots' fault. What are they supposed to do? Refuse trips through ATL? We'd be doing the same thing if the roles were reversed, and there's nothing we could do about it.

To Comair pilots: while we at ASA are currently frustrated about lack of growth and the dilution of flying at our hubs, the opinion stated above is a minority one, to use an understatement. We understand where the orders are coming from.

It's whipsawing at its finest to beat us down during contract negotiations, and some are falling for it hook, line and sinker.

 

[e120pilot]

The displacements off the CR7 were a direct result of the EMB guys coming over. A lot of junior people went to the CR7 last year while more senior EMB pilots were bypassed (and pay protected of course). As far as further displacements in October on the CR7.....I guess we'll just have to wait and see. The ATL CR7 base is overstaffed, but I've heard that the majority of the the new CR7's next year will be going there. Time will tell.

~~~^~~~, I couldn't agree more with your view on our operational performance. I think we all agree that ASA's performance in ATL (and to a lesser degree DFW) is pathetic. However, how are we suppose to improve? While the ASA fleet is shrinking, our company is still being forced to support the expansion of CMR, CHQ, SKW. If DAL really wants ASA to improve our operational performance, they should relieve us of our ground handling duties that we perform for all these airlines. On the down side that would mean lots of layoffs for our stations in ATL and DFW. However, that would allow us to clean house and concentrate on improving.

As far as the cat fighting that goes on here between ASA pilots and other groups....it's pretty stupid. We all know that it's not the CMR pilots (or CHQ, SKW, etc.) are not responsible for their growth into our markets. While I certainly don't hold a grudge against any other pilot group, I can see why people get upset. It's amazing listening to CMR pilots whine about having to fly through ATL. Yes, it's a $hitty operation, but be thankful that you're getting some growth. I actually heard a CMR pilot in ATL complaining about losing some routes out of DFW, and having to come to ATL. Well, ASA is losing routes out of both of our hubs, and our presence in other hubs is limited to a few token flights. We all need to keep an eye on the big picture...fighting amongst ourselves will do nothing to help our situation.

FYI, the last of the EMB flying will be 8/15 when the last two aircraft are sent to Hot Springs.

As far as all the conspiracy theories, we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[sleepy]

Ok rjcap,

I didn't really mean it. I wish we could all get along. I just though these Comair guys would like to reflect on the full implications of being a WO in the DCI portfolio. They might want to consider that it will be coming right back at them in a few years. So, they may not want to gloat too much or often over their new status as the favored step-child of the moment.

 

[RJFlyer]

I'm curious where the displacement idea is coming from. The Sept final awards show several 50 seat guys going to differences training for the 70, not the other way around: 6 50-seat CA and 5 50-seat FO to differences training, and 6 60-seat CA upgrades. Nothing about displacements from the 70...

 

[rjcap]

So, they may not want to gloat too much or often over their new status as the favored step-child of the moment.

I thought CHQ was the flavor of the month. Nevertheless, I think its time we all lay off the finger pointing. The comair guys have every right to complain about the pathetic and incompetent ramp service and gate service in ATL. Just because the ASA people have become apathetic doesn't mean Comair crews need to lower themselves to the ATL level of performance.

Bottom line is the ASA operation is a joke.

 

[rjcap]

I'm curious where the displacement idea is coming from.

Just another group of people who need something to worry about.

 

[e120pilot]

The displacements happened on the August Finals (when all the EMB guys got the boot). It's not on Flica anymore, but the August final awards should be in the crew room. FYI- The 6 DFW CR2 Captain awards were given to the guys that were displaced in August. Essentially, they were displaced to FO, then were given the award again for captain. So they will never even see the right seat. Good news for them!

 

[sleepy]

I thought CHQ was the flavor of the month. Nevertheless, I think its time we all lay off the finger pointing. The comair guys have every right to complain about the pathetic and incompetent ramp service and gate service in ATL. Just because the ASA people have become apathetic doesn't mean Comair crews need to lower themselves to the ATL level of performance.

Bottom line is the ASA operation is a joke.

Sure it's a joke, but Comair doesn't get it. The ATL ops freqs are for calling in times only. It is pointless to jam the freq with requests for fuel, lav, catering, maintenance, power carts, parking, etc... It's not going to happen until it happens. Just relax and enjoy the wait.

Skip says everything is just fine in ATL. Our management has set a low standard of performance, and we are meeting it. They still get their bonus. It's all good!

As for displacements on the CR7, are you all sure that people are not going back to the CR2 on their own?

 

[surplus1]

Sleepy,

ASA and Comair pilots have been on the same "frequency" for a long time. That unity of purpose is our biggest asset. Whatever you do, don't let trivia upset it. If you are sent to CVG we'll bend over backwards to welcome you.

ATL is a zoo, but we both know that neither ASA pilots or CMR pilots have anything to do with it. Granted we're not used to that and maybe you have grown accustomed, but let's not make it a difficulty between us. The stakes are too high.

You guys at ASA are our real brothers. I vote for doing eveything we can to keep it that way.

 

[DDpaysoff]

Originally posted by e120pilot It's amazing listening to CMR pilots whine about having to fly through ATL. Yes, it's a $hitty operation, but be thankful that you're getting some growth. I actually heard a CMR pilot in ATL complaining about losing some routes out of DFW, and having to come to ATL. [/B]

Yes, it is amazing. I guess we should be bringing 'whine' and bread. How can somebody possibly come to ATL and complain? If I wanted to go to ATL, I would have applied. So, when did you guys stop taking deliveries of jets? I guess that delivery of 15 next year is a rumor. Tell you one thing, we don't whine about atl nearly as much as you whine about stunted growth. Especially for a company that is still taking jet deliveries.
Are you people high, thinking that some of your 70's are going to CMR?

 

[e120pilot]

Some people just don't get it. You are absolutely correct that ASA is still getting new jets. In fact, we're getting 21 new RJ's this year. The problem is that we've retired 28 E120's this year. To quote George Costanza...."It's shrinkage!" If my numbers are correct, CMR is getting over 30 CRJ's this year. So ASA loses 7 a/c, while CMR grows by over 30. If you can't understand why people here are unhappy about this...you need more help than I can offer.

Due to the shrinking fleet, ASA is already staffed for a large portion of the new deliveries next year. We'll see some hiring in 04, but not until later in the year. I could care less if CMR was in ATL or DFW, as long as we continue to grow. However, when we're shrinking and everyone else is growing in our only 2 hubs...it tends to touch a nerve. Again, nothing against the CMR pilots, it's just our good buddy Fred playing his game with us.