Continental pilots/post merger.....ALPA pins?

[nimtz]

EWR based? T.F. and O.B. came to mind but didn't match.....

TF will do the triple jump across a the next picket line that comes his way. That guy is an embarrassment to this profession...

 

[T Bone]

EWR based? T.F. and O.B. came to mind but didn't match.....

I stand corrected was told he was born in 63(T.F.), upon further research I see he was born in april 64 and changed his last name slightly. His attitude gives him away.....good catch. I believe he is the last one at cal, does anyone know when the last one leaves ual?

O.B. looks like he is now IAH based, if we are thinking of the same guy.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

DAL/NWA were/are not as far apart. DAL ALPA has always been pretty mellow and NWA didn't have any warts. Not the same here, UAL ALPA likes to act hard and CAL is a melting pot of just about every kind of pilot there is. A fresh start here is a good idea because we're going to have guys like UALdriver that want to trowel out old, failed coping mechanisms like this ALPA pin or slick tie thing. He thinks he's got something he can pick up and run with and stir the pot. The truth is we don't lack unity here at CAL. Not at all. We DO however lack enthusiasm for ALPA, including yours truly. If we had some other union to rally around I think UALdriver would be surprised at how few weak links we have at CAL.

Except that UAL had a successful strike.

BTW, Word of caution to UALdriver: you've got about a 50% chance of being woefully wrong in jacking up some of our guys who you think might have a suspicious DOH. They may be former Frontier, we all know what UAL ALPA did to them. Or they might be Texas Intl. Who's strikers went to Dulles to picket and when they asked UAL ALPA for a show of support were told by the infamous Rick Dub: "we're UAL ALPA, if you think we give a sh!t about your p!ssant Texas airline you're wrong".

How long do we hold on to old history?

The argument about "thinking globally" I'm afraid might just be a scare tactic. Sure, it's happening. But I'm afraid ALPA's real problem is generational. This present group of older members aren't equipped to help out the whole. They want pilot to think globally but turn around and help themselves locally. Obviously age 65 was a big mistake and a backstab. But where is flight and duty time? If Captain's Prater and Babbit can't get something done in our favor it likely means they simply don't want to. I believe the possibilty exists that Prater knows a change in flight and duty would homogenize schedules and reduce days off for senior members who are busy mopping up the age 65 windfall.

That is a pretty sad statement that the old guys aren't equipped to help out.... if not them, then who?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The new legislation that was just signed by President Obama yesterday, after ALPA worked hard to push it through Congress, requires new flight time/duty time rules to be implemented within 12 months.

Just ALPA? What about CAPA? APA? SWAPA? USAPA? IPA?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I haven't been on this forum in a long time. Rez you are still a moron.

I am willing to bet that you are challenged to articulate why....

 

[PCL_128]

Just ALPA? What about CAPA? APA? SWAPA? USAPA? IPA?

There was certainly CAPA involvement, but as you know, ALPA gets the real attention on Capital Hill.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How about wearing the pin upside down? I support my fellow pilots but I am in protest against ALPA for a laundry list of infractions.

How do you recognize the contributions?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

GMAFB. Sometimes I wear my military jet on my tie as opposed to my ALPA pin. Am I a scab? I didn't even know what a scab was until I got hired @ CAL (since I was instead deploying left and right flying fighters in the AD AF). You've got to get over this pin bullsh*t. Any scab can wear 10 ALPA pins but he's still a scab (and some do today). This relationship between a pin and being a scab is completely illogical.

Perhaps you should have found out what the labor movement is in this country and learned what a scab is before you applied.... a little intel before you engage is always preferred!

 

[El Pobre]

I stand by my initial assessment of this thread (which per usual was right on). Just because you wear an ALPA pin doesn't make you a better pilot or person than someone (for whatever reason, be it personal or professional) doesn't. It just makes you look sophmoric to judge someone based on that criterial.

The reality here is that you need to choose your battles wisely and if your battle is dependent on who wears or doesn't wear an ALPA pin, your are choosing very poorly.

I don't like scabs just as much as the next guy, but I guess I'm mature enough to ask the right questions before I ostracize someone for not wearing the right clothing accessory.

I seems like you UAL "tie tack" guys are all still wearing your "Members Only" jackets from high school.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I stand by my initial assessment of this thread (which per usual was right on). Just because you wear an ALPA pin doesn't make you a better pilot or person than someone (for whatever reason, be it personal or professional) doesn't. It just makes you look sophmoric to judge someone based on that criterial.

The reality here is that you need to choose your battles wisely and if your battle is dependent on who wears or doesn't wear an ALPA pin, your are choosing very poorly.

I don't like scabs just as much as the next guy, but I guess I'm mature enough to ask the right questions before I ostracize someone for not wearing the right clothing accessory.

I seems like you UAL "tie tack" guys are all still wearing your "Members Only" jackets from high school.

I guess the question is.... why would one not wear the pin?

Basically the non scab pilots who don't wear the pin are saying... Me (and my reasons for not wearing the pin) are bigger than all of us and anything we can achieve collectively. I am unique, special and are deserving of a special consideration that I have carved out for myself.

What is sophomoric is creating idealistic expectations, then going cynical when those 'expectations' aren't met. For example a National Seniority List or SOS. Most pilots who are not scabs who don't wear an ALPA pin do so for 'pet' issues or personal (real or perceived) slights.

A mature attitude would be knowing that ALPA isn't a panacea. That, like any human organization such as church, govt, corporations, NGO's, etc.. there are going to be gains and loses. Unions (ALPA) is expected to make gains and protect careers, so when it does so (and it has!) the attitude is.. "yeah, well, I expect ALPA do that... so what". However, when there is a loss, even if it is not ALPA's burden such as 9/11 or the BK era, ALPA certainly gets heavy dose of negativity that doesn't match the reciprocal of positive.

A mature attitude would also not take for granted long standing protections and benefits.

A mature attitude would realize that (as shown in the UAL 85 strike) that solidarity, meaning everyone pulling on the same rope, is feared by management. And that non scabs with slick ties only serves as a crack for management to drive its wedge.....to divide and conquer....

Knowing this... is not wearing the pin... that important?

Or said differently..... what does one expect to gain by not wearing the pin?

 

[bizicmo]

The reason I have not worn a pin in the past is the same reason I don't wear ear rings, bracelets, brooches, boutineers, corsages, don't have a tattoo, don't have bag stickers, don't have bumper stickers, don't have posters or paintings or pictures on my walls, don't put up christmas lights or tree. I'm, i guess, a minimalist. I don't care for any jewelry or flare.

 

[Turtle21]

I guess the question is.... why would one not wear the pin?

Basically the non scab pilots who don't wear the pin are saying... Me (and my reasons for not wearing the pin) are bigger than all of us and anything we can achieve collectively. I am unique, special and are deserving of a special consideration that I have carved out for myself.

What is sophomoric is creating idealistic expectations, then going cynical when those 'expectations' aren't met. For example a National Seniority List or SOS. Most pilots who are not scabs who don't wear an ALPA pin do so for 'pet' issues or personal (real or perceived) slights.

A mature attitude would be knowing that ALPA isn't a panacea. That, like any human organization such as church, govt, corporations, NGO's, etc.. there are going to be gains and loses. Unions (ALPA) is expected to make gains and protect careers, so when it does so (and it has!) the attitude is.. "yeah, well, I expect ALPA do that... so what". However, when there is a loss, even if it is not ALPA's burden such as 9/11 or the BK era, ALPA certainly gets heavy dose of negativity that doesn't match the reciprocal of positive.

A mature attitude would also not take for granted long standing protections and benefits.

A mature attitude would realize that (as shown in the UAL 85 strike) that solidarity, meaning everyone pulling on the same rope, is feared by management. And that non scabs with slick ties only serves as a crack for management to drive its wedge.....to divide and conquer....

Knowing this... is not wearing the pin... that important?

Or said differently..... what does one expect to gain by not wearing the pin?

You know as I read your post I started to realize that you make some excellent points and I started to feel a bit guilty about not wearing my ALPA pin these last few years... but then I flipped over my shoe and lo and behold what did I see stuck upside down in the heal of my work shoes? A piece of chewing gum on one and a 20 year pin on the other. I'm gonna keep wearing it so my shoes are balanced.

 

[densoo]

The reason I have not worn a pin in the past is the same reason I don't wear ear rings, bracelets, brooches, boutineers, corsages, don't have a tattoo, don't have bag stickers, don't have bumper stickers, don't have posters or paintings or pictures on my walls, don't put up christmas lights or tree. I'm, i guess, a minimalist. I don't care for any jewelry or flare.

So the way you distinguish yourself is to not distinguish yourself. The loner, the independent, the inscrutable.

Speaks just as loudly as someone who distinguishes themselves with a haircut, the clothing, the pin. Both are choices and both speak equally distinctly.

 

[vetrider]

Let's see how long eaglesview has a woody for his alpa pin when he doesn't like the list that comes out. I smell a little something in the air, but I'll leave well enough alone, I've already butted in enough.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

The reason I have not worn a pin in the past is the same reason I don't wear ear rings, bracelets, brooches, boutineers, corsages, don't have a tattoo, don't have bag stickers, don't have bumper stickers, don't have posters or paintings or pictures on my walls, don't put up christmas lights or tree. I'm, i guess, a minimalist. I don't care for any jewelry or flare.

The problem is, you've got it all backwards. The ALPA pin is part of your basic uniform, while the slick tie is the flair, loudly proclaiming to your fellow pilots that you're a scab, management sycophant, just don't give a rat's a$$ or some combination of the above, while simultaneously proclaiming to mgt that you don't support your fellow pilots or union and will probably vote yes on whatever POS they send your way.

Wearing the ALPA pin has nothing to do with how you feel about your union or your fellow pilots. It has everything to do with the PERCEPTION of how you feel. That is why myself, and many other unionist pilots, will look at the tie of the guy approaching in the terminal, then look away in disgust if it is slick, or smile and give the nod if union pin is present. Andre Agassi said it best, "Image is everything!"

 

[Turtle21]

..smile and give the nod if union pin is present...

Oh, I wear two union pins. The old union pin under my heal and my new union pin on my tie. Here's to freedom for pilots to vote, and smilin' with ya.

 

[vetrider]

Oh, I wear two union pins. The old union pin under my heal and my new union pin on my tie. Here's to freedom for pilots to vote, and smilin' with ya.

I wear two pins myself, alpo on one sole, and usapa on the other. Better balance that way, remember?

Anyhow, I'll shut up now, I have a feeling I'm gonna get told to get lost on this thread real soon. Eaglesview has had no problem butting in on LCC threads so I don't feel any guilt there, but that is not the rest of the guys' on this threads problem.

 

[Turtle21]

I wear two pins myself, alpo on one sole, and usapa on the other. Better balance that way, remember?

Anyhow, I'll shut up now, I have a feeling I'm gonna get told to get lost on this thread real soon. Eaglesview has had no problem butting in on LCC threads so I don't feel any guilt there, but that is not the rest of the guys' on this threads problem.

Yes I remember. Your vote is your vote, bro, and that is more important than any union that thinks they know better than the vote of the pilots.

 

[eaglesview]

Let's see how long eaglesview has a woody for his alpa pin when he doesn't like the list that comes out. I smell a little something in the air, but I'll leave well enough alone, I've already butted in enough.

Try reading some of my posts concerning ALPA. I am about as anti ALPA as they get however... They are the union on the property so I would prefer to show support for my fellow pilots rather than give management the illusion that I do not support my MEC's efforts.

As for butting in...feel free.. it's an open forum. type away.

 

[vetrider]

Try reading some of my posts concerning ALPA. I am about as anti ALPA as they get however... They are the union on the property so I would prefer to show support for my fellow pilots rather than give management the illusion that I do not support my MEC's efforts.

As for butting in...feel free.. it's an open forum. type away.

I've gathered that from some of your posts. I'm still curious how you'll feel about wearing the pin despite it all after CAL gets a fair shake in the arbitrated award and Prater doesn't grant you all the fancy colored committees.

Doesn't matter, you know who to call.