Continental pilots/post merger.....ALPA pins?

[bizicmo]

The reason I have not worn a pin in the past is the same reason I don't wear ear rings, bracelets, brooches, boutineers, corsages, don't have a tattoo, don't have bag stickers, don't have bumper stickers, don't have posters or paintings or pictures on my walls, don't put up christmas lights or tree. I'm, i guess, a minimalist. I don't care for any jewelry or flare.

 

[Turtle21]

I guess the question is.... why would one not wear the pin?

Basically the non scab pilots who don't wear the pin are saying... Me (and my reasons for not wearing the pin) are bigger than all of us and anything we can achieve collectively. I am unique, special and are deserving of a special consideration that I have carved out for myself.

What is sophomoric is creating idealistic expectations, then going cynical when those 'expectations' aren't met. For example a National Seniority List or SOS. Most pilots who are not scabs who don't wear an ALPA pin do so for 'pet' issues or personal (real or perceived) slights.

A mature attitude would be knowing that ALPA isn't a panacea. That, like any human organization such as church, govt, corporations, NGO's, etc.. there are going to be gains and loses. Unions (ALPA) is expected to make gains and protect careers, so when it does so (and it has!) the attitude is.. "yeah, well, I expect ALPA do that... so what". However, when there is a loss, even if it is not ALPA's burden such as 9/11 or the BK era, ALPA certainly gets heavy dose of negativity that doesn't match the reciprocal of positive.

A mature attitude would also not take for granted long standing protections and benefits.

A mature attitude would realize that (as shown in the UAL 85 strike) that solidarity, meaning everyone pulling on the same rope, is feared by management. And that non scabs with slick ties only serves as a crack for management to drive its wedge.....to divide and conquer....

Knowing this... is not wearing the pin... that important?

Or said differently..... what does one expect to gain by not wearing the pin?

You know as I read your post I started to realize that you make some excellent points and I started to feel a bit guilty about not wearing my ALPA pin these last few years... but then I flipped over my shoe and lo and behold what did I see stuck upside down in the heal of my work shoes? A piece of chewing gum on one and a 20 year pin on the other. I'm gonna keep wearing it so my shoes are balanced.

 

[densoo]

The reason I have not worn a pin in the past is the same reason I don't wear ear rings, bracelets, brooches, boutineers, corsages, don't have a tattoo, don't have bag stickers, don't have bumper stickers, don't have posters or paintings or pictures on my walls, don't put up christmas lights or tree. I'm, i guess, a minimalist. I don't care for any jewelry or flare.

So the way you distinguish yourself is to not distinguish yourself. The loner, the independent, the inscrutable.

Speaks just as loudly as someone who distinguishes themselves with a haircut, the clothing, the pin. Both are choices and both speak equally distinctly.

 

[vetrider]

Let's see how long eaglesview has a woody for his alpa pin when he doesn't like the list that comes out. I smell a little something in the air, but I'll leave well enough alone, I've already butted in enough.

 

[Dewey Oxberger]

The reason I have not worn a pin in the past is the same reason I don't wear ear rings, bracelets, brooches, boutineers, corsages, don't have a tattoo, don't have bag stickers, don't have bumper stickers, don't have posters or paintings or pictures on my walls, don't put up christmas lights or tree. I'm, i guess, a minimalist. I don't care for any jewelry or flare.

The problem is, you've got it all backwards. The ALPA pin is part of your basic uniform, while the slick tie is the flair, loudly proclaiming to your fellow pilots that you're a scab, management sycophant, just don't give a rat's a$$ or some combination of the above, while simultaneously proclaiming to mgt that you don't support your fellow pilots or union and will probably vote yes on whatever POS they send your way.

Wearing the ALPA pin has nothing to do with how you feel about your union or your fellow pilots. It has everything to do with the PERCEPTION of how you feel. That is why myself, and many other unionist pilots, will look at the tie of the guy approaching in the terminal, then look away in disgust if it is slick, or smile and give the nod if union pin is present. Andre Agassi said it best, "Image is everything!"

 

[Turtle21]

..smile and give the nod if union pin is present...

Oh, I wear two union pins. The old union pin under my heal and my new union pin on my tie. Here's to freedom for pilots to vote, and smilin' with ya.

 

[vetrider]

Oh, I wear two union pins. The old union pin under my heal and my new union pin on my tie. Here's to freedom for pilots to vote, and smilin' with ya.

I wear two pins myself, alpo on one sole, and usapa on the other. Better balance that way, remember?

Anyhow, I'll shut up now, I have a feeling I'm gonna get told to get lost on this thread real soon. Eaglesview has had no problem butting in on LCC threads so I don't feel any guilt there, but that is not the rest of the guys' on this threads problem.

 

[Turtle21]

I wear two pins myself, alpo on one sole, and usapa on the other. Better balance that way, remember?

Anyhow, I'll shut up now, I have a feeling I'm gonna get told to get lost on this thread real soon. Eaglesview has had no problem butting in on LCC threads so I don't feel any guilt there, but that is not the rest of the guys' on this threads problem.

Yes I remember. Your vote is your vote, bro, and that is more important than any union that thinks they know better than the vote of the pilots.

 

[eaglesview]

Let's see how long eaglesview has a woody for his alpa pin when he doesn't like the list that comes out. I smell a little something in the air, but I'll leave well enough alone, I've already butted in enough.

Try reading some of my posts concerning ALPA. I am about as anti ALPA as they get however... They are the union on the property so I would prefer to show support for my fellow pilots rather than give management the illusion that I do not support my MEC's efforts.

As for butting in...feel free.. it's an open forum. type away.

 

[vetrider]

Try reading some of my posts concerning ALPA. I am about as anti ALPA as they get however... They are the union on the property so I would prefer to show support for my fellow pilots rather than give management the illusion that I do not support my MEC's efforts.

As for butting in...feel free.. it's an open forum. type away.

I've gathered that from some of your posts. I'm still curious how you'll feel about wearing the pin despite it all after CAL gets a fair shake in the arbitrated award and Prater doesn't grant you all the fancy colored committees.

Doesn't matter, you know who to call.

 

[eaglesview]

I've gathered that from some of your posts. I'm still curious how you'll feel about wearing the pin despite it all after CAL gets a fair shake in the arbitrated award and Prater doesn't grant you all the fancy colored committees.

Doesn't matter, you know who to call.

Same answer as before. I'll wear the pin until (if/when) ALPA no longer represents me.

 

[IAHERJ]

The problem is, you've got it all backwards. The ALPA pin is part of your basic uniform, while the slick tie is the flair, loudly proclaiming to your fellow pilots that you're a scab, management sycophant, just don't give a rat's a$$ or some combination of the above, while simultaneously proclaiming to mgt that you don't support your fellow pilots or union and will probably vote yes on whatever POS they send your way.

Wearing the ALPA pin has nothing to do with how you feel about your union or your fellow pilots. It has everything to do with the PERCEPTION of how you feel. That is why myself, and many other unionist pilots, will look at the tie of the guy approaching in the terminal, then look away in disgust if it is slick, or smile and give the nod if union pin is present. Andre Agassi said it best, "Image is everything!"

Good post. We not only have a problem at CAL with pilots that don't wear the pin, but too many that do wear the pin, wear it incorrectly. It doesn't go 2 inches from the bottom. It goes a bit North of the halfway point so it can be seen when your coat is buttoned. We have a lot of complete slobs here. Sad thing is that many of the slobs now want to lose the hats, coats etc. in favor of even more casual uniforms now that we are going through a uniform change. Sad, just sad. I encourage any CAL pilot to visit Tarpy Tailors in LAX right across from the In-N-Out Burger. Captain Tarpy was one of the first 30 pilots hired at CAL and founded the uniform company that, to this day; hand makes the uniforms right here in the U.S.A. Take a look at the collection of CAL wings and uniforms from years past. Did you know CAL pilots wore double breasted blazers for years? 747 captains had an extra stripe as well. Do you think the pilots of the 60-70's would appreciate the way many of our pilots carry themselves at work today? I see way too many cheap "Summer" pants worn by overweight pilots that are more suited to someone working on a toilet or a sink(my apologies to all the fine plumbers out there). I digress. Just wear the damn alpa pin, and wear it in the right place on the tie.

 

[eaglesview]

The problem is, you've got it all backwards. The ALPA pin is part of your basic uniform, while the slick tie is the flair, loudly proclaiming to your fellow pilots that you're a scab, management sycophant, just don't give a rat's a$$ or some combination of the above, while simultaneously proclaiming to mgt that you don't support your fellow pilots or union and will probably vote yes on whatever POS they send your way.

Wearing the ALPA pin has nothing to do with how you feel about your union or your fellow pilots. It has everything to do with the PERCEPTION of how you feel. That is why myself, and many other unionist pilots, will look at the tie of the guy approaching in the terminal, then look away in disgust if it is slick, or smile and give the nod if union pin is present. Andre Agassi said it best, "Image is everything!"

Fantastic post, right on the money!!

 

[Flopgut]

How long do we hold on to old history?


That is a pretty sad statement that the old guys aren't equipped to help out.... if not them, then who?

How long? Forever.....

Did you see the ATA interview article with Captain Babitt from July (I think)? He insists in the article that flight and duty time should only be changed in a way that doesn"t require more pilots?! Captain Prater can't change it in a efficient manner but somehow managed to get the retirement age changed instantly, the middle of the night. Look at how ALPA helped these guys throughout their carrers and compare that with what they are doing now. I know Randy is a politition now, but come on! He's not confused about safety; He wouldn't want to fly these schedules we are. ALPA's problem is generational. When the baby boomers have moved on we'll be better off. Worst group of Americans ever. It's not just aviation.

 

[Twotter Driver]

You nailed it with this post! I agree completely!

Good post. We not only have a problem at CAL with pilots that don't wear the pin, but too many that do wear the pin, wear it incorrectly. It doesn't go 2 inches from the bottom. It goes a bit North of the halfway point so it can be seen when your coat is buttoned. We have a lot of complete slobs here. Sad thing is that many of the slobs now want to lose the hats, coats etc. in favor of even more casual uniforms now that we are going through a uniform change. Sad, just sad. I encourage any CAL pilot to visit Tarpy Tailors in LAX right across from the In-N-Out Burger. Captain Tarpy was one of the first 30 pilots hired at CAL and founded the uniform company that, to this day; hand makes the uniforms right here in the U.S.A. Take a look at the collection of CAL wings and uniforms from years past. Did you know CAL pilots wore double breasted blazers for years? 747 captains had an extra stripe as well. Do you think the pilots of the 60-70's would appreciate the way many of our pilots carry themselves at work today? I see way too many cheap "Summer" pants worn by overweight pilots that are more suited to someone working on a toilet or a sink(my apologies to all the fine plumbers out there). I digress. Just wear the damn alpa pin, and wear it in the right place on the tie.