Continental pilots/post merger.....ALPA pins?

[eaglesview]

That's quite a blanket statement that I will assume is directed to the people that look to be in their 60's and late 50's.

You are correct I should revise the statement. We will assume you are a scab or a wannabe scab or someone who just doesn't give a crap about hie fellow pilot. Either way the same response will occur.

 

[Scrapdog]

You are correct I should revise the statement. We will assume you are a scab or a wannabe scab or someone who just doesn't give a crap about hie fellow pilot. Either way the same response will occur.

Have you ever (or currently) served or flown in the military?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

here we go........again.....

 

[Flopgut]

Here's a thought: When we get this deal done, we need to consider our own union for the new UAL. That's a pin I want to wear!

 

[talespin]

OK, so now if you choose not to wear an ALPA pin on your tie you are equated to a SCAB. Really???...what a bunch of morons! That's like saying you're anti-American if you don't wear a flag lapel on your jacket.

"guys who don't wear their pins in ops and such usually get a bit of a cold shoulder"...Seriously?...go back to high school!

I see alot of guys who wear different ties tacks, some ALPA, some Military wings, some guys a college logo, some people a cross, one guy even had a breast cancer thing in memory of his deceased wife...Like some of you posted here, just because a guy wears an ALPA pin doesn't make him a good pilot or even good union member.

I've seen ALPA members at a union meeting call for our junior pilots to be furloughed rather than taking a pay cut during the recession...but...if I recall correctly he was wearing an ALPA pin so that must have made his a good union brother.

Seriously, you guys need to get a life and stop worry about what tie tacks guys are wearing...and I gotta find something better to do on layovers than read this drivel.

It's not about the tie tack but the unity in which it represents. There is a lot about ALPA I don't care for but I truly believe in the brotherhood. We CANNOT be overrun by management if we stand together and therefore I wear my pin to show unity, not as a fashion statement. Don't be fooled, there is a battle taking place!

 

[taxi1wire]

Don't forget the hats....

 

[Sonny Crockett]

The jist of the thread is to let the CAL guys/gals know.....a slick tie (no ALPA pin) speaks volumes!

I forgot my pin one time.......and went straight to the Flight Office (Chief Pilot's office) and got a new one, YOU do NOT want to be seen without an ALPA pin.

Just makes it "easier" to out the SCABS..........and it works!!!!

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Here's a thought: When we get this deal done, we need to consider our own union for the new UAL. That's a pin I want to wear!

You are going to have to be more convincing than that.... A name is just that.... rebranding isn't going to solve the problems that collaboration, trust, respect, long standing relationships with govt and industry bring to the table.... let alone with each member.

If we don't like the way things are running let's change the motor not the paint job.....

This applies to the slick tie at UAL..... taking the pin off or wearing it upside down doesn't change much. However, actively particiapting in the process will yield better results... Will you get exactly what you want? There is a good chance you won't... but with some political skill there is a good change you will get some of what you want....


Take the principle to the MIL. If a soldier was jaded with the US and wore his US Flag or other insignia upside down or not at all, there would be response.... The point is we are all trying to defend the pilot profession and we can't do it with orders.....

 

[Scrapdog]

here we go........again.....

I'm sorry Rez...did you say something? This wasn't directed at you nor none of your business. Nor was it a slam directed at him...a question is all.

I'm sure you have a liberal blog you need to post urgently in the non-aviation section. Move along.

 

[Flopgut]

You are going to have to be more convincing than that.... A name is just that.... rebranding isn't going to solve the problems that collaboration, trust, respect, long standing relationships with govt and industry bring to the table.... let alone with each member.

If we don't like the way things are running let's change the motor not the paint job.....

This applies to the slick tie at UAL..... taking the pin off or wearing it upside down doesn't change much. However, actively particiapting in the process will yield better results... Will you get exactly what you want? There is a good chance you won't... but with some political skill there is a good change you will get some of what you want....


Take the principle to the MIL. If a soldier was jaded with the US and wore his US Flag or other insignia upside down or not at all, there would be response.... The point is we are all trying to defend the pilot profession and we can't do it with orders.....

The new UAL is going to have a lot of unique issues and a tremendous amount of ground to make up for all members. I believe a fresh start might be in order. We'll have to see; that's down the line a ways... Maybe ALPA can be turned around. I'm kind of tired of trying. Of the three unions I've been in as a pilot, this is the most difficult to make changes in.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The new UAL is going to have a lot of unique issues and a tremendous amount of ground to make up for all members.

Does this apply to the DAL/NWA merger? Explain.

I believe a fresh start might be in order.

I am not saying it does not, but what is it about the UA/CAL merger that requires a fresh start?

We'll have to see; that's down the line a ways... Maybe ALPA can be turned around. I'm kind of tired of trying. Of the three unions I've been in as a pilot, this is the most difficult to make changes in.

Valid... perhaps you are suggesting that an in house union would allow for a more expeditious process for change, not bogged down in the ALPA structure of LEC/MEC/EB/EC/BOD. I would suggest that going in house would lose the benefits of truely international union.

Consider how this industry is truley going global. Some have suggested that junior UAL/CAL pilots will retire not as UAL pilots but as Star Alliance Pilots. DAL pilots will wear the uniform and retire as Skyteam Pilots. This is possbile and a union that already is a part of IFALPA seems to be beneficial. Not sure how effective the APA pilots will be in dealing with JAL and BA pilots... key word effective...

 

[Whine Lover]

Well, we would need to look at how this might affect court rulings....Vis-A-Vis UsAirways.

 

[xjhawk]

yeah i am new to the industry with only 7 years as a ALPA member and I have a couple of gripes with the mentality being posted here (note that I hope to one day work for United as its been my goal since I was a flight instructor). I wear one pin, my US of A old glory flag! I do not wear my ALPA lanyard anymore since I got sick of it smacking me in the face because its elastic (not to mention it does not have a safety release). I have been looking for a great MN twins lanyard but have not found one. As for good union memeber, when Mesaba was on the verge of a strike in 04' I was told by our MEC Chairman that because I was in training and on probation that I would have to report to work at the traininig center, not too long after that statement I had a "good union member" who was being assigned watch duties at the training center that said he would slash my tires if "anyone" came to train while he was watching. He was wearing a pin and a lanyard. He was an idiot. Please do not think I am not supportive of our good union just because i do not wear a pin of your liking. I do not look down on you and treat you poorly because you do not wear a flag or served your country like I did. My three cents

 

[El Pobre]

Hey, UAL Driver...

Here's a thought...if a scab at UAL was wearing an ALPA tie tack, would you all treat him like your best friend.

I guess my point is this....if you're going to give someone the cold shoulder that's certainly your perrogative, perhaps it would be better to do so based on information from the "non-members" list, rather than what kind of a tie tack he/she might be wearing. Just a thought.

 

[densoo]

Question/statement for the Continental pilots. Over here on the UAL side of the operation, almost all of us (except out scabs and other non-members) wear our ALPA pin on our tie. In fact, if one sees a United pilot not wearing an ALPA pin on their tie, it's very likely he is a scab or non-member. Do you guys do the same?

Yes. xx

 

[Flopgut]

Does this apply to the DAL/NWA merger? Explain.


I am not saying it does not, but what is it about the UA/CAL merger that requires a fresh start?


Valid... perhaps you are suggesting that an in house union would allow for a more expeditious process for change, not bogged down in the ALPA structure of LEC/MEC/EB/EC/BOD. I would suggest that going in house would lose the benefits of truely international union.

Consider how this industry is truley going global. Some have suggested that junior UAL/CAL pilots will retire not as UAL pilots but as Star Alliance Pilots. DAL pilots will wear the uniform and retire as Skyteam Pilots. This is possbile and a union that already is a part of IFALPA seems to be beneficial. Not sure how effective the APA pilots will be in dealing with JAL and BA pilots... key word effective...

DAL/NWA were/are not as far apart. DAL ALPA has always been pretty mellow and NWA didn't have any warts. Not the same here, UAL ALPA likes to act hard and CAL is a melting pot of just about every kind of pilot there is. A fresh start here is a good idea because we're going to have guys like UALdriver that want to trowel out old, failed coping mechanisms like this ALPA pin or slick tie thing. He thinks he's got something he can pick up and run with and stir the pot. The truth is we don't lack unity here at CAL. Not at all. We DO however lack enthusiasm for ALPA, including yours truly. If we had some other union to rally around I think UALdriver would be surprised at how few weak links we have at CAL.

BTW, Word of caution to UALdriver: you've got about a 50% chance of being woefully wrong in jacking up some of our guys who you think might have a suspicious DOH. They may be former Frontier, we all know what UAL ALPA did to them. Or they might be Texas Intl. Who's strikers went to Dulles to picket and when they asked UAL ALPA for a show of support were told by the infamous Rick Dub: "we're UAL ALPA, if you think we give a sh!t about your p!ssant Texas airline you're wrong".

The argument about "thinking globally" I'm afraid might just be a scare tactic. Sure, it's happening. But I'm afraid ALPA's real problem is generational. This present group of older members aren't equipped to help out the whole. They want pilot to think globally but turn around and help themselves locally. Obviously age 65 was a big mistake and a backstab. But where is flight and duty time? If Captain's Prater and Babbit can't get something done in our favor it likely means they simply don't want to. I believe the possibilty exists that Prater knows a change in flight and duty would homogenize schedules and reduce days off for senior members who are busy mopping up the age 65 windfall.

 

[Flopgut]

Question/statement for the Continental pilots. Over here on the UAL side of the operation, almost all of us (except out scabs and other non-members) wear our ALPA pin on our tie. In fact, if one sees a United pilot not wearing an ALPA pin on their tie, it's very likely he is a scab or non-member. Do you guys do the same?

Further, whether you guys do it or not, I think we all (except non-members/scabs) should have the pin on our tie, going forward once the merger is complete. Order those pins if you don't have one already!

***For the flightinfo members that hate ALPA......no need to post here. I already know ALPA sucks, Prater is on the till collecting a 7 figure salary, all ALPA reps. do nothing but take ALPA drops, and ALPA only cares about dues, etc., etc.

Would you like to know how we kept a pension (albeit frozen)? Would you like to know how we kept our scope? How we're not under a court order to behave? We keep things like pins in proper perspective. Mark B. gave away your pension. Paul W. gave away your scope clause. Wendy is cut from the same cloth. Getting tough over pins is something they are too happy to let guys vent about while management makes them look foolish. Your leaders have to bring their A game and we have to have each other's back. Everyone's back. I do NOT have to see a pin on a tie to know I have to keep that pilot's best interest in mind.

 

[PCL_128]

But where is flight and duty time?

The new legislation that was just signed by President Obama yesterday, after ALPA worked hard to push it through Congress, requires new flight time/duty time rules to be implemented within 12 months.

 

[ualdriver]

Hey, UAL Driver...

Here's a thought...if a scab at UAL was wearing an ALPA tie tack, would you all treat him like your best friend.

I guess my point is this....if you're going to give someone the cold shoulder that's certainly your perrogative, perhaps it would be better to do so based on information from the "non-members" list, rather than what kind of a tie tack he/she might be wearing. Just a thought.

Said list would be consulted....

 

[ualdriver]

Would you like to know how we kept a pension (albeit frozen)? Would you like to know how we kept our scope? How we're not under a court order to behave? We keep things like pins in proper perspective. Mark B. gave away your pension. Paul W. gave away your scope clause. Wendy is cut from the same cloth. Getting tough over pins is something they are too happy to let guys vent about while management makes them look foolish. Your leaders have to bring their A game and we have to have each other's back. Everyone's back. I do NOT have to see a pin on a tie to know I have to keep that pilot's best interest in mind.

Bathurst did not give away our pension. *****It was SEIZED by the PBGC on December 31, 2004. *****I already have a good idea as to why some bankrupt and nearly bankrupt airlines got to keep their pensions and we did not. *****It's alot easier to simply affix blame to one person, but the loss of UA's pension goes beyond far beyond a simple, "It's his fault!" *****If you have some new information that already hasn't been hashed over 10 times over I'm all ears. *****Whiteford did not give away our scope. *****He did, however, sign a damaging letter that allowed the E170 to be flown. *****The UAL pilots gave away their own scope before either he or Bathurst were even in power. *****You likely know very little about our current MC other than what you have heard through flightinfo.com or a "friend of a friend." *****Most of the negative stuff said about her is said/written by people who are mad because "their guy" didn't win. *****They are also very vocal. *****I think the lawsuit came about from a few reasons, mainly a combination of a very bull-headed MC taking a very aggressive stance with a very anti-labor CEO. *****The RLA, of course, is no help either and is tilted toward management in my opinion.***************