Continental pilots/post merger.....ALPA pins?

[Twotter Driver]

Is your tie so small that you cannot fit two pins. How about sticking the ALPA pin on your id badge. Or just walk around looking like the ones that crossed our picket line. I and most of my fellow UAL pilots are fullt aware that on the CO side there are ALPA pin wearing picket line crossers. We, and anyone else who care know who they are.

It's funny you say that. I don't even need a scab list or Employee number to pick out a scab from the crowd. There is a certain cheapness or sleaziness that they exude as a general population. They tend to be the nervous, unkempt types, that have a hard time looking a fellow pilot in the eye. Most, I have noticed, don't wear an ALPA pin. Many wear a company years of service pin where the ALPA pin would normally be worn. This to me indicates a die hard company man that is proud to flaunt when he was hired with the airline, something I wouldn't be proud of if I were them. There is roughly 500 of them left here at CAL, but they sure do stick out like a sore thumb! I believe the youngest scab is 49 years old, so unfortunately it looks like it will be another 16 years before we are scab free.

 

[densoo]

GMAFB. Sometimes I wear my military jet on my tie as opposed to my ALPA pin. Am I a scab? I didn't even know what a scab was until I got hired @ CAL (since I was instead deploying left and right flying fighters in the AD AF). You've got to get over this pin bullsh*t. Any scab can wear 10 ALPA pins but he's still a scab (and some do today). This relationship between a pin and being a scab is completely illogical.

Because you wear a military jet pin doesn't mean you were in the military, either. Perhaps you are a military hobbyist.

But there are certain assumptions made when you do wear a military jet pin: that you were in the military, that you flew jets, that you are proud of this, that you hold a kinship with those who did what you did, and that in a pinch you would support them as they would you.

Try applying this reasoning to the ALPA pin.

 

[rtseatrich]

[/U][/B]
It's funny you say that. I don't even need a scab list or Employee number to pick out a scab from the crowd. There is a certain cheapness or sleaziness that they exude as a general population. They tend to be the nervous, unkempt types, that have a hard time looking a fellow pilot in the eye. Most, I have noticed, don't wear an ALPA pin. Many wear a company years of service pin where the ALPA pin would normally be worn. This to me indicates a die hard company man that is proud to flaunt when he was hired with the airline, something I wouldn't be proud of if I were them. There is roughly 500 of them left here at CAL, but they sure do stick out like a sore thumb! I believe the youngest scab is 49 years old, so unfortunately it looks like it will be another 16 years before we are scab free.

Actually, my buddy just flew with one who was born in 1963. Probably too fat to make it to 60 much less 65.

 

[Scrapdog]

Is your tie so small that you cannot fit two pins. How about sticking the ALPA pin on your id badge. Or just walk around looking like the ones that crossed our picket line. I and most of my fellow UAL pilots are fullt aware that on the CO side there are ALPA pin wearing picket line crossers. We, and anyone else who care know who they are.

Yep, you got me...because I don't have my alpa pin on my tie that day I would most certainly look like a scab that crossed the picket line in 1983. Oh wait, I'm friggin 33 years old and was born in 1977. So, if I did cross the picket line, I would have been 6 and just finishing 1st grade. From what I remember, I was playing on the playground that year and not employed with Continental. Maybe you can do a background check if you don't believe me.

Try consulting a list or better yet - why don't you use some basic reasoning...if a dude looks like he's in his late 20's to early 30's, he probably isn't a scab from '83. I know, I know...the logic is just unbelievable here.

 

[Scrapdog]

Because you wear a military jet pin doesn't mean you were in the military, either. Perhaps you are a military hobbyist.

But there are certain assumptions made when you do wear a military jet pin: that you were in the military, that you flew jets, that you are proud of this, that you hold a kinship with those who did what you did, and that in a pinch you would support them as they would you.

Try applying this reasoning to the ALPA pin.

I don't disagree with your logic. However, here's some logic as well. If a person is curious about another's background (i.e. if he flew jets in the military) you casually ask him "hey, did you fly in the military?" He'll either respond yes or no. If you're curious whether he was employed @ CAL in '83 and not wearing an alpa pin, you can casually ask as well. And the fact I'm in my early 30's is probably a dead giveaway as to whether I ever crossed a picket line in '83, much less had anything to do with the airlines (ref earlier post).

Reasoning and logic are such amazing tools.

P.S. If we ever fly together, you'll see I'm pretty laid back. As a matter of fact I could care less what your background is or where you came from (not that I don't mind chatting about it...or anything to do with hot chicks...but of course I digress), but I don't hold any preconcieved notions one way or another. All I care about is getting from point A to point B safely, getting along, and getting home once the trip is done. That's about it.

 

[eaglesview]

Yep, you got me...because I don't have my alpa pin on my tie that day I would most certainly look like a scab that crossed the picket line in 1983. Oh wait, I'm friggin 33 years old and was born in 1977. So, if I did cross the picket line, I would have been 6 and just finishing 1st grade. From what I remember, I was playing on the playground that year and not employed with Continental. Maybe you can do a background check if you don't believe me.

Try consulting a list or better yet - why don't you use some basic reasoning...if a dude looks like he's in his late 20's to early 30's, he probably isn't a scab from '83. I know, I know...the logic is just unbelievable here.

It's not just about wether or not you are or were a picket line crosser. It is about wether you choose to show you fellow pilots you are with them or do you choose to show management that the pilot group may be fragmented and not unified. You choose the path you want to go down. One would think that a military guy would clearly understand the importance of sticking together.

In closing. no sir your logic is twisted.

 

[Scrapdog]

It's not just about wether or not you are or were a picket line crosser. It is about wether you choose to show you fellow pilots you are with them or do you choose to show management that the pilot group may be fragmented and not unified. You choose the path you want to go down. One would think that a military guy would clearly understand the importance of sticking together.

In closing. no sir your logic is twisted.

I'm certainly not with management. All I try to do is be professional, humble, and courteous. You are free to believe whatever you'd like about me. And as long as a fellow pilot was unfairly accused by management (or anyone else for that matter) and he was acting in good faith, I'd be glad to have his back...and that's whether I had an alpa pin on my tie or not.

 

[densoo]

I don't hold any preconcieved notions one way or another.

I do. If you're wearing a "military jet pin" and want to talk about "hot chicks" then my preconcieved notion is pretty set on this one.

 

[Scrapdog]

I do. If you're wearing a "military jet pin" and want to talk about "hot chicks" then my preconcieved notion is pretty set on this one.

As you wish.

 

[Speedtape]

Or, maybe it was part of the "Taking it all back" campaign?

 

[eaglesview]

I'm certainly not with management. All I try to do is be professional, humble, and courteous. You are free to believe whatever you'd like about me. And as long as a fellow pilot was unfairly accused by management (or anyone else for that matter) and he was acting in good faith, I'd be glad to have his back...and that's whether I had an alpa pin on my tie or not.

Your post sounds good and mirrors the feelings of the vast majority of pilots here at UAL and I am sure at CO. Your attire will conflict with your first sentence and give the wrong impression to management and the hundreds of pilots you do not fly with and get to know, but simply pass by in ops or the terminal.

 

[Scrapdog]

Your post sounds good and mirrors the feelings of the vast majority of pilots here at UAL and I am sure at CO. Your attire will conflict with your first sentence and give the wrong impression to management and the hundreds of pilots you do not fly with and get to know, but simply pass by in ops or the terminal.

Eagle - WADR, I've really exhausted all I had to say here. I really wasn't going to say anything at all, but the fact some guys on here (not mentioning names, you can look at the prior posts) are so unequiovically convinced that no alpa pin on the tie MUST equal a scab, that I just couldn't take the gross flawed logic on it.

As I mentioned - the alpa pin on the tie has zero to do with being a scab. Absolutely zero. The last scab I unfortunately flew with out of IAH had a gleaming, shiny alpa pin strapped right to his tie. And yes indeed - he was indeed a scab (name was on the list and acted just like one as well). That's the problem...as I mentioned earlier...anyone can put a million alpa pins all over their uniform...if they're a scab from '83, they're still a scab.

Instead of demeaning guys for not wearing an alpa pin and convincing yourself that he must be a scab, use factual data. That can be either the list or asking other reliable sources. And above all, use common sense. If you're flying with a relatively young guy (i.e. 33 years old...he probably didn't cross the picket line now did he)?? I'd bet you'd be amazed how friendly and enjoyable the trip may be if you drop any preconcieved notions and just chatted with him like a normal adult.

P.S. I do wear an alpa pin...it was been affixed firmly to my blazer along with an american flag pin. And my military pin has been on my tie. And I've never had a problem, nor have I ever been put on someone's no fly list. As my prior squadron commander once told me..."be humble, be credible, and be approachable." And that's exactly what I try to do.

P.P.S. I did not hang out with that scab one minute on that trip, nor have I on the previous trips as well.

 

[eaglesview]

Eagle - WADR, I've really exhausted all I had to say here. I really wasn't going to say anything at all, but the fact some guys on here (not mentioning names, you can look at the prior posts) are so unequiovically convinced that no alpa pin on the tie MUST equal a scab, that I just couldn't take the gross flawed logic on it.

As I mentioned - the alpa pin on the tie has zero to do with being a scab. Absolutely zero. The last scab I unfortunately flew with out of IAH had a gleaming, shiny alpa pin strapped right to his tie. And yes indeed - he was indeed a scab (name was on the list and acted just like one as well). That's the problem...as I mentioned earlier...anyone can put a million alpa pins all over their uniform...if they're a scab from '83, they're still a scab.

Instead of demeaning guys for not wearing an alpa pin and convincing yourself that he must be a scab, use factual data. That can be either the list or asking other reliable sources. And above all, use common sense. If you're flying with a relatively young guy (i.e. 33 years old...he probably didn't cross the picket line now did he)?? I'd bet you'd be amazed how friendly and enjoyable the trip may be if you drop any preconcieved notions and just chatted with him like a normal adult.

P.S. I do wear an alpa pin...it was been affixed firmly to my blazer along with an american flag pin. And my military pin has been on my tie. And I've never had a problem, nor have I ever been put on someone's no fly list. As my prior squadron commander once told me..."be humble, be credible, and be approachable." And that's exactly what I try to do.

P.P.S. I did not hang out with that scab one minute on that trip, nor have I on the previous trips as well.

I wasn't really looking for a response. I understand your position. All is well. However I am having touble with WADR.?? I'm a bit slow I know.

 

[T Bone]

Actually, my buddy just flew with one who was born in 1963. Probably too fat to make it to 60 much less 65.

Also flew with one in ewr born in 1963 EAL scab, most f/o's have him on the no fly list on the 737. Simple way to remember is Scab free in 2023, Prater made us wait till 2028

 

[Scrapdog]

I wasn't really looking for a response. I understand your position. All is well. However I am having touble with WADR.?? I'm a bit slow I know.

Wadr = with all due respect

 

[beytzim]

The stupidest part of all you "pro-union" guys is that I'm sure 99% percent of you are Republicans. Talk about a bunch of naive hypocrites.

 

[pianoman]

Also flew with one in ewr born in 1963 EAL scab, most f/o's have him on the no fly list on the 737. Simple way to remember is Scab free in 2023, Prater made us wait till 2028

EWR based? T.F. and O.B. came to mind but didn't match.....

 

[SFR]

Why do you guys worry about scabs so much. What about you that PFTed back in the 90s??? You screwed the industry too just as much as they did to their contemporaries!!

 

[SFR]

EWR based? T.F. and O.B. came to mind but didn't match.....

Fuller is a good guy.... if you have a problem with him I suggest you tell him to his face...

 

[UALRATT]

Yep, you got me...because I don't have my alpa pin on my tie that day I would most certainly look like a scab that crossed the picket line in 1983. Oh wait, I'm friggin 33 years old and was born in 1977. So, if I did cross the picket line, I would have been 6 and just finishing 1st grade. From what I remember, I was playing on the playground that year and not employed with Continental. Maybe you can do a background check if you don't believe me.

Try consulting a list or better yet - why don't you use some basic reasoning...if a dude looks like he's in his late 20's to early 30's, he probably isn't a scab from '83. I know, I know...the logic is just unbelievable here.

Your quarreling makes you sound like you're still 6. Just wear the thing and be done with it...

 

[nimtz]

EWR based? T.F. and O.B. came to mind but didn't match.....

TF will do the triple jump across a the next picket line that comes his way. That guy is an embarrassment to this profession...

 

[T Bone]

EWR based? T.F. and O.B. came to mind but didn't match.....

I stand corrected was told he was born in 63(T.F.), upon further research I see he was born in april 64 and changed his last name slightly. His attitude gives him away.....good catch. I believe he is the last one at cal, does anyone know when the last one leaves ual?

O.B. looks like he is now IAH based, if we are thinking of the same guy.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

DAL/NWA were/are not as far apart. DAL ALPA has always been pretty mellow and NWA didn't have any warts. Not the same here, UAL ALPA likes to act hard and CAL is a melting pot of just about every kind of pilot there is. A fresh start here is a good idea because we're going to have guys like UALdriver that want to trowel out old, failed coping mechanisms like this ALPA pin or slick tie thing. He thinks he's got something he can pick up and run with and stir the pot. The truth is we don't lack unity here at CAL. Not at all. We DO however lack enthusiasm for ALPA, including yours truly. If we had some other union to rally around I think UALdriver would be surprised at how few weak links we have at CAL.

Except that UAL had a successful strike.

BTW, Word of caution to UALdriver: you've got about a 50% chance of being woefully wrong in jacking up some of our guys who you think might have a suspicious DOH. They may be former Frontier, we all know what UAL ALPA did to them. Or they might be Texas Intl. Who's strikers went to Dulles to picket and when they asked UAL ALPA for a show of support were told by the infamous Rick Dub: "we're UAL ALPA, if you think we give a sh!t about your p!ssant Texas airline you're wrong".

How long do we hold on to old history?

The argument about "thinking globally" I'm afraid might just be a scare tactic. Sure, it's happening. But I'm afraid ALPA's real problem is generational. This present group of older members aren't equipped to help out the whole. They want pilot to think globally but turn around and help themselves locally. Obviously age 65 was a big mistake and a backstab. But where is flight and duty time? If Captain's Prater and Babbit can't get something done in our favor it likely means they simply don't want to. I believe the possibilty exists that Prater knows a change in flight and duty would homogenize schedules and reduce days off for senior members who are busy mopping up the age 65 windfall.

That is a pretty sad statement that the old guys aren't equipped to help out.... if not them, then who?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

The new legislation that was just signed by President Obama yesterday, after ALPA worked hard to push it through Congress, requires new flight time/duty time rules to be implemented within 12 months.

Just ALPA? What about CAPA? APA? SWAPA? USAPA? IPA?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I haven't been on this forum in a long time. Rez you are still a moron.

I am willing to bet that you are challenged to articulate why....

 

[PCL_128]

Just ALPA? What about CAPA? APA? SWAPA? USAPA? IPA?

There was certainly CAPA involvement, but as you know, ALPA gets the real attention on Capital Hill.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

How about wearing the pin upside down? I support my fellow pilots but I am in protest against ALPA for a laundry list of infractions.

How do you recognize the contributions?

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

GMAFB. Sometimes I wear my military jet on my tie as opposed to my ALPA pin. Am I a scab? I didn't even know what a scab was until I got hired @ CAL (since I was instead deploying left and right flying fighters in the AD AF). You've got to get over this pin bullsh*t. Any scab can wear 10 ALPA pins but he's still a scab (and some do today). This relationship between a pin and being a scab is completely illogical.

Perhaps you should have found out what the labor movement is in this country and learned what a scab is before you applied.... a little intel before you engage is always preferred!

 

[El Pobre]

I stand by my initial assessment of this thread (which per usual was right on). Just because you wear an ALPA pin doesn't make you a better pilot or person than someone (for whatever reason, be it personal or professional) doesn't. It just makes you look sophmoric to judge someone based on that criterial.

The reality here is that you need to choose your battles wisely and if your battle is dependent on who wears or doesn't wear an ALPA pin, your are choosing very poorly.

I don't like scabs just as much as the next guy, but I guess I'm mature enough to ask the right questions before I ostracize someone for not wearing the right clothing accessory.

I seems like you UAL "tie tack" guys are all still wearing your "Members Only" jackets from high school.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

I stand by my initial assessment of this thread (which per usual was right on). Just because you wear an ALPA pin doesn't make you a better pilot or person than someone (for whatever reason, be it personal or professional) doesn't. It just makes you look sophmoric to judge someone based on that criterial.

The reality here is that you need to choose your battles wisely and if your battle is dependent on who wears or doesn't wear an ALPA pin, your are choosing very poorly.

I don't like scabs just as much as the next guy, but I guess I'm mature enough to ask the right questions before I ostracize someone for not wearing the right clothing accessory.

I seems like you UAL "tie tack" guys are all still wearing your "Members Only" jackets from high school.

I guess the question is.... why would one not wear the pin?

Basically the non scab pilots who don't wear the pin are saying... Me (and my reasons for not wearing the pin) are bigger than all of us and anything we can achieve collectively. I am unique, special and are deserving of a special consideration that I have carved out for myself.

What is sophomoric is creating idealistic expectations, then going cynical when those 'expectations' aren't met. For example a National Seniority List or SOS. Most pilots who are not scabs who don't wear an ALPA pin do so for 'pet' issues or personal (real or perceived) slights.

A mature attitude would be knowing that ALPA isn't a panacea. That, like any human organization such as church, govt, corporations, NGO's, etc.. there are going to be gains and loses. Unions (ALPA) is expected to make gains and protect careers, so when it does so (and it has!) the attitude is.. "yeah, well, I expect ALPA do that... so what". However, when there is a loss, even if it is not ALPA's burden such as 9/11 or the BK era, ALPA certainly gets heavy dose of negativity that doesn't match the reciprocal of positive.

A mature attitude would also not take for granted long standing protections and benefits.

A mature attitude would realize that (as shown in the UAL 85 strike) that solidarity, meaning everyone pulling on the same rope, is feared by management. And that non scabs with slick ties only serves as a crack for management to drive its wedge.....to divide and conquer....

Knowing this... is not wearing the pin... that important?

Or said differently..... what does one expect to gain by not wearing the pin?