Complete Incompetence!

[skiandsurf]

Since when did a capt lose his authority to take care of his passengers, in the air OR on the ground?

June 1997, after landing at LGA, we could not get to the gate due to stopped departures (t-storms) and full ramps. After sitting on the hot plane for about an hour, I declared an emergency. Told the tower that we either get moving to a gate or we will evacuate here on the ramp. We got cleared to a gate.

Its amazing how things change when you say that "E" word.

 

[ultrarunner]

June 1997, after landing at LGA, we could not get to the gate due to stopped departures (t-storms) and full ramps. After sitting on the hot plane for about an hour, I declared an emergency. Told the tower that we either get moving to a gate or we will evacuate here on the ramp. We got cleared to a gate.

Its amazing how things change when you say that "E" word.

Good for you SKI. I want YOU on my team when I'm riding in the back of your bird.

That's how it HAS to be done.

 

[ultrarunner]

Airline apologizes after passengers stranded on planes for hours in NYC

To Cheryl Chesner, 26, "unacceptable" was hardly the word for the 11 hours she said she and her husband, Seth, 27, spent trying to take a JetBlue flight to Aruba for their honeymoon.

That is beyond inexcusable!

ELEVEN FUKING HOURS.....


Good thing that crew doesn't report to me.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

June 1997, after landing at LGA, we could not get to the gate due to stopped departures (t-storms) and full ramps. After sitting on the hot plane for about an hour, I declared an emergency. Told the tower that we either get moving to a gate or we will evacuate here on the ramp. We got cleared to a gate.

Its amazing how things change when you say that "E" word.

Way to show some marbles Ski! That's exactly the kind of can-do attitude I was hoping more JetBlue captains would have demonstrated in this last debacle. Instead, they sat there meekly while their passengers suffered. Now, because of their leadership FAILURE, Congress will legislate humane treatment in similar situations in a "passenger bill of rights". If only more captains had demonstrated your leadership there wouldn't be a need for Congress to intervene and "do what's right".

BBB

 

[ultrarunner]

The flight crew got sucked in and and sucked down the juice...

Every 30 minutes or so, dispatch would call them, or they would call dispatch, and it would go like this..

...yeah, you're looking at another hour..yeah, were gonna get you right out...yeah..it's looking good...

..the crew fell for it, and that's inexcusable after a few of those calls....

 

[F16mjb]

BBB,

Seriously, you need to relax a little. I can tell from your post that you are a major reason I got out of the active duty! Hopefuly you have been ticked away in a worthless staff job. Enjoy your Power Point!

 

[737 Pylt]

This whole thread has been seriously entertaining....
You want better service, start by paying for it!

737

 

[shooter]

The flight crew got sucked in and and sucked down the juice...

Every 30 minutes or so, dispatch would call them, or they would call dispatch, and it would go like this..

...yeah, you're looking at another hour..yeah, were gonna get you right out...yeah..it's looking good...

..the crew fell for it, and that's inexcusable after a few of those calls....

WTF? I was not aware that JB Dispatch was in control of deice, ATC and the weather. And you know what? who cares! That aircraft was under its own power and the PIC can do whatever he/she sees fit to maintain the safety of the pax and crew.

To say "the crew fell for it" just shows the complete lack of understanding of how flight control works and possibly how an airline works. You may know how to operate an aircraft, but thats about it based on your post. Since you presume to know what flight control will say, lets see if you have heard this one before....

YOU DO NOT KNOW ENOUGH TO SEE THE BIG PICTURE!

 

[L'il J.Seinfeld]

I think 80for80/TheRhoid/Ihaveapension/freightnazi/flibuoy has stolen BBB's logon. Why else would a UPS pilot care so much?

 

[BLUE BAYOU]

I guess the Anna Nicole Smith stuff is getting old for these guys, back to bashing JBLU. We know the screwup was inexcusable; there hopefully will be some serious talking to those responsible-- the weather was a factor, however, the lack of parking or suitable deplaning of stranded passengers (we have airstairs) needs to be looked into. After waiting an hour, as a captain, I would have tried to find a way to deplane my passengers.

 

[waterski]

Hey BBB congress is to busy screwing soldiers in IRAK. So don't hold your breath

 

[Huck]

We waited for an hour once in ATL on an ATR-72... 50 feet from the gate, no rampies available. People in back rioting because of close connections. Finally the captain decided to nose it across the line and download the pax. We gathered everybody by the door, then the flight attendant led them single file to a terminal door, while I (the f/o) brought up the rear.

This was complicated by the fact that I had to get out first and connect the portable tail-prop we carried in the tailcone before they made a rush for the back door. I simply explained this to the pax on the PA before I went out.

That captain, Dale R., taught me alot about who really runs an airline. You can point to dispatchers, gate agents, mechanics, flight attendants and first officers all you want, but THE CAPTAINS ARE THE GROWNUPS. Either they set the tone, set the pace and ocaasionally save the day, or we're screwed. A couple of good strong captains could have saved the day for Jetblue that day.

Why do us box haulers care? I deadhead 50,000 miles a year, sometimes on Jetblue. And I'm not sitting for 11 hours because somebody won't make a decision - not unless you got some tie-wraps in your bag......

 

[Caveman]

All of you internet tough guys on here talking ******************** about how you would have done this or done that are full of it. I'm as aggresive and decisive as they come when it comes to stuff like this and I was there. There was nothing we could do. The SAFEST course of action was to keep the pax on the plane where they were SAFE, warm and had basic food, water and shelter. There were no other options.

Let me refresh your memory of what we were dealing with. There were no gates. Airplanes were frozen to the tarmac. Ground vehicles were getting stuck. There were no busses. The Port Authority was of no help. Dispatch and ops were of no help. We couldn't take off. We couldn't move.

Blow the slides?!? Are you ********************ing insane? The wind chill was something like 15 below zero and we were about a mile from the nearest building. People would have died if you would have done that.

I'm not excusing the operational side of this fiasco. It was seriously FUBAR. I take serious exception when some anonymous internet tough guy starts shooting his mouth off blaming the crews. We were put in a bad situation without resources and we did the best we could. Everybody went to bed that night unharmed. They were extraordinarily inconvenienced, but they were safe and unharmed.

Most of the pax were sympathetic and understood what was going on. The vocal 2% are the only ones that make it on to the news.

 

[clickclickboom]

I could see the media frenzy now

Jetblue crew charged with negligent homicide after 6 year old boy falls out of aircraft to the pavement and dies after captain deploys ememgency slides in an attempt to evacuate completely operational aircraft stuck on tarmac for 10 hours

The ensuing frenzy also caused 11 cases of severe frostbite which will lead to finger or toe removals due to the -15 windchill coupled with 40 mph winds after the port authority did not have any vehicles available to rescue the passengers. An 85 year old woman also fractured her pelvis while attempting to evacuate.

Its so easy to pass opinion while sitting behind your computer but the reality is that the situation was complete and utter chaos. Complete shutdown of communication with aircraft parked everywhere. picture 2 dozen 747's blocking taxiways ramp entrances. 767's lined up 75 deep on closed runways. Opposing traffic causing traffic jams that would take an hour just to solve.

There was a klm flight that flew in from Europe and it took an additional 11 hours just to get to their gate.

Ground crews that cant even walk on the ramp because of ice and high winds. Airplanes actually frozen to the ground.

It was a nightmare and i dont blame 1 crewmember from any company

 

[Father Jack]

"frozen to the TARMAC?" Are you a pilot or part of the "media"? Pilots, and the FAA, use "ramp" or "apron."

 

[B737Dvr]

In the end, we are all on the same team.....right?

Dizel... you can attempt to justify incompetent leadership however you like. I'm unaware of the specifics of the other situations you site, but rest assured, if the result is similar then this industry is plagued by incompetent captains.

The fact that you dismiss holding passengers hostage for up to 11 hours on a dead airplane with no food, electricity, ventilation, or human waste removal as "industry standard" is abhorrent. You have COMPLETELY lost touch with humanity if you think this is acceptable.

Because you have demonstrated such horrific leadership and complete abdication of captain authority, you will soon find congress legislating humane treatment of passengers in similar situations and congress will severely curb your authority in the future because you have demonstrated such poor leadership in the past.

BBB

Hey BBB, I for one agree with you and as you read, everyone agrees with you! what people take exception to is your continued lambasting of a dead horse, and with a sort of holier than thou demeaner. Generalizing the industry as being filled with incompetant captains and then repeating over and over again actually defeats the true purpose of your posts. if your delivery is wrong, then your message will be lost and my friend, it was lost back on page 2.

Now about congress legislating humane treatment of pax, id like to inform you that the EU as a whole is already under legislature because of their grand incompetence and lack of regard for people and their workers. Now i could take a page out of your book and go on and on about the euro trash out there and single out BA and other bristish (minded) carriers that havent exactly been role models for the rest of the industry, but i wont because that is counter-intuitive and discredits my attempts to call out for a cohesive front to try and be better professionals. you wont build unity with stones my friend, and in an industry where a good samaritan gesture could land you in jail, goes to show we all work in a glass house. We all know this industry isnt what it used to be, and the captain authority has been slowly eroded over the years (I AM NOT CONDONING HOLDING PEOPLE FOR 11 HOURS, RELAX BBB) but i just wish to remind you that this is a much more hostile environment where crews are gulity until proven innocent.

Now i for one, view news reports about aviation incidents with sceptisizm....just frankly because 90% the have no freaking clue what they are talking about and still show pictures of 727's taking off when they talk about a major airline.....im only interested in official faa, ntsb, or intercompany documentation that is factual, relevant, correct and has corrective actions. the news networks need to add bias and flair and some kerosene of their own to keep ratings high...remember that.

We get your point BBB, we agreed with you back on page 1, now people are just engaging your means, and i would have to agree with them.


now the whole comment about
"i sense much anger in young BBB"......almost made me spit my coffee out!
lmfao!!!!!

 

[clickclickboom]

"frozen to the TARMAC?" Are you a pilot or part of the "media"? Pilots, and the FAA, use "ramp" or "apron."

pilots use "apron"?

 

[Stan]

BBB, Speaking of complete incompetence, you know the saying "People in glass houses..."

Everyday we deal with complete incompetence and lack of accountability the only difference is we don't have a bunch of people on board to complain about it. If we got stuck on a ramp somewhere for hours we would shut sown and leave the airplane.

 

[GogglesPisano]

Deja Vu all over again?

Wasn't there a "Passenger Bill of Rights" passed back in 1999 or thereabouts. These politicians need to come up with a more original line.

 

[Big Beer Belly]

JetBlue apologizes for stranding fliers


By DAVID B. CARUSO Associated Press Writer
© 2007 The Associated Press

NEW YORK — Hundreds of passengers who were stranded on parked JetBlue planes for up to 10 1/2 hours could have been evacuated sooner if the airline had not waited to ask airport officials for help, the company founder said Thursday.

The airline acknowledged that it hesitated nearly five hours before calling in shuttle buses to unload 10 jets that spent the day sitting on runways at Kennedy Airport because of icy weather and gate congestion.

While they waited, exasperated passengers sat within sight of the terminal without food, adequate restrooms or a reasonable explanation as to why they were not moving.

JetBlue officials finally phoned the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, which runs area airports, at 3 p.m. to ask for staircases and buses to get people off the planes and back to the terminal.

"We should have called them sooner," said JetBlue founder and CEO David Neeleman.

Once they did, some passengers were free within 30 minutes. Others had to wait while the Port Authority shoveled out snow-covered equipment and rounded up drivers.

Many of the stranded passengers did not return to the terminal until 6 p.m. Most had boarded their aircraft around 8 a.m. Some of the jets were incoming flights that had been on the ground since 10 a.m. Six flights were stranded for more than eight hours.

Neeleman said he could not apologize enough.

"We should have done better," he said. "There was an opportunity to do better."

JetBlue's problems began developing when snow and ice pellets made takeoffs difficult but did not stop landings, Neeleman said, resulting in the airline accumulating 52 airplanes at a terminal with 21 gates.

He said the airline held out too long for a break in the icy conditions, then had planes "freeze to the ground" where they had been waiting.

Terminals at JFK filled with passengers trying to arrange alternative flights. JetBlue canceled 195 of its 568 planned flights in an attempt to avoid being overwhelmed for a second straight day.

On Thursday, JetBlue promised a full refund and a free round-trip flight to customers delayed aboard an aircraft for more than three hours. Passengers with canceled flights were being offered a refund. All other passengers with travel booked through Monday were being offered a chance to cancel and rebook, without having to pay the usual fee.

Asked why the airline did not summon staircases and shuttle buses to unload the 10 planes with extraordinary delays sooner, Neeleman said, "That's a very good question."

"I think the ice condition made it very difficult for us," he said. "We were worried about our customers falling down the stairs and hurting themselves."

The Federal Aviation Administration has no rules regarding how long airlines may leave passengers aboard a grounded craft, but Port Authority guidelines consider passengers officially "stranded" if they remain aboard a parked plane for more than two hours.