Compass to Seperate from DAL MEC

[JoeMerchant]

More like a tick on the sphincter of the dog.

OK...We'll go with your analogy...A pain in the ass that is sucking blood out of the host....Still a problem....

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

You and your lifer friends are not near the problem you think you are. Somehow you guys think you are a bigger probem than you really are. Just an annoyance that is being dealt with by the increasing parking of the bloodsuckers.

OK...We'll go with your analogy...A pain in the ass that is sucking blood out of the host....Still a problem....

 

[PCL_128]

Not a bad deal?

Not having a vote on the MEC is a bad deal and a DFR lawsuit waiting to happen...Why don't they get a vote? Are they not members?

I can't believe people are actually advocating that this is a "good deal"..

DFR isn't a factor. The law provides for a "wide range of reasonableness" in how unions set up their structure and provide representation. The CPZ/NWA/DAL structure is well within that guideline. Sorry, Joey.

 

[lookin4better]

Compass = Mid-Atlantic

Only a matter of time.

 

[JoeMerchant]

DFR isn't a factor. The law provides for a "wide range of reasonableness" in how unions set up their structure and provide representation. The CPZ/NWA/DAL structure is well within that guideline. Sorry, Joey.

Not giving pilots a vote in their MEC isn't "reasonable"...The Delta MEC seems to agree that this is a legal problem...Isn't that why they are pushing to seperate Compass?

 

[PCL_128]

Not giving pilots a vote in their MEC isn't "reasonable"...

Unions aren't even required by law to give members a vote at all at the local level. For example, the IBT has it in their Bylaws that the IBT President can force them to take a contract even if their local leadership votes it down. The only membership ratification that is mandated by law is the vote for certification of the bargaining unit. After that, pretty much anything is fair game as far as the law is concerned.

The Delta MEC seems to agree that this is a legal problem...Isn't that why they are pushing to seperate Compass?

I don't think that has anything to do with it. It's far more likely that a certain grand pooba thinks he's too good to be mixing his pilots with a bunch of "little airplane drivers."

 

[DrewBlows]

Do these 6 LEC officers have a vote on the DAL MEC?

Yes. Our LEC officers are the same as the former NWA pilots who work (or choose to vote) in those bases. I'm a council 20 member, I got my ballot last month just like every other council 20 member.

Do you think that maybe you should inform yourself before spreading conjecture about something you know nothing about?

 

[JoeMerchant]

Yes. Our LEC officers are the same as the former NWA pilots who work (or choose to vote) in those bases. I'm a council 20 member, I got my ballot last month just like every other council 20 member.

So your a member of the mainline LEC...without seniority numbers....However you slice it, it's a conflict of interest as you are now about to find out...You are going to be jettisoned by a group you put too much faith in.

The same reps that represent you, also represent a much larger group that have seniority numbers....This was doomed from the start....

ALPA keeps trying these "hybrid" type single groups and/or flowthroughs and they ALL turn out badly in the end...Either you are a single group with a single seniority list....or you are separate and should have your own representation that represents you and only you....

 

[PCL_128]

Joey, you're missing his key point: they have representation in Council 20, and both of the Council 20 reps voting against this nonsense, just as the overwhelming majority of the CPZ pilots apparently want. They got their representation. It's ridiculous for you to continue claiming that they didn't.

 

[DoinTime]

They got their representation. It's ridiculous for you to continue claiming that they didn't.

Representation from pilots not on your seniority list and who don't work for your airline is hardly representation. I hope you don't think the new DAL MEC is made up of wholly righteous individuals that put the health of the industry and the honor of the profession before petty, political infighting over selfish interests. You should know better than that.

 

[PCL_128]

Representation from pilots not on your seniority list and who don't work for your airline is hardly representation.

Does John Prater not represent you? Paul Rice? Rory Kay? Bill Couette? The list goes on.

Again, the CPZ pilots don't seem to be complaining about their representational structure. They seem quite happy with it. Why won't you let them have the representation that they want?

I hope you don't think the new DAL MEC is made up of wholly righteous individuals

At the very least, 13 of them proved that they aren't.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Joey, you're missing his key point: they have representation in Council 20, and both of the Council 20 reps voting against this nonsense, just as the overwhelming majority of the CPZ pilots apparently want. They got their representation. It's ridiculous for you to continue claiming that they didn't.

You're missing the point...How can you be represented by an LEC and MEC that you aren't on the same seniority list with? This was destined to fail from the beginning...The Compass pilots have fallen for the sales job that they are part of the mainline MEC....Now they are being jettisoned much like MidAtlantic was...

 

[DoinTime]

Does John Prater not represent you? Paul Rice? Rory Kay? Bill Couette? The list goes on.

The above mentioned represent the interests of ALPAs BOD. If any Compass pilots had a seat on the BOD then their interests might get heard.

 

[PCL_128]

The above mentioned represent the interests of ALPAs BOD. If any Compass pilots had a seat on the BOD then their interests might get heard.

Again, the CPZ pilots seem to feel that the reps they have are doing more than a fine job of representing them. Let them have what they want.

 

[Cobraair75drvr]

And I will agree with you about being a blood sucking problem. While I am sure my public math will get scewered, here it goes: Delta pilots contribute roughly $28,550,000 per year(avg. salary $120,000 X 1.95% X 12,200 pilots) to ALPA. It takes about 24,400 regional pilots to equal this(avg. salary $60,000 X 1.95% =$1170. $28,550,000/$1170= 24,401) You guys are getting way the f$$k more than you will contribute in a lifetime. As a matter of fact they should raise your dues. Better yet, kick you out. If we(Majors) can't/won't take back the flying WE OWN that is in OUR sec.1 because of the fear of a lawsuit from a sub-contractor then things must change. Either you leave/kicked out or we do. You leave and ALPA becomes more financially sound or we leave and ALPA disolves. ALPA cannot exist without the 3-4 major players paying all the bills. It may be easier for the major players to leave. I am not sure what legally can be done to have airlines removed.

OK...We'll go with your analogy...A pain in the ass that is sucking blood out of the host....Still a problem....

 

[buscap]

And I will agree with you about being a blood sucking problem. While I am sure my public math will get scewered, here it goes: Delta pilots contribute roughly $28,550,000 per year(avg. salary $120,000 X 1.95% X 12,200 pilots) to ALPA. It takes about 24,400 regional pilots to equal this(avg. salary $60,000 X 1.95% =$1170. $28,550,000/$1170= 24,401) You guys are getting way the f$$k more than you will contribute in a lifetime. As a matter of fact they should raise your dues. Better yet, kick you out. If we(Majors) can't/won't take back the flying WE OWN that is in OUR sec.1 because of the fear of a lawsuit from a sub-contractor then things must change. Either you leave/kicked out or we do. You leave and ALPA becomes more financially sound or we leave and ALPA disolves. ALPA cannot exist without the 3-4 major players paying all the bills. It may be easier for the major players to leave. I am not sure what legally can be done to have airlines removed.

Something must be wrong with your math, or ALPA would have been out of the regional business years ago. Either our cash or numbers are worth something.

I don't know where our value is, but ALPA is too much of a self serving political animal to be carrying regionals on charity for even one single second.

Maybe we have good quiche at our MEC luncheons???

I don't know!!

 

[PCL_128]

His numbers are correct. A small MEC like CJC costs far more than it brings in, and a large regional like ASA barely breaks even. The majors subsidize everything.

With that said, I completely disagree with his conclusions. ALPA carries smaller airlines that are a drain on the finances because it's better for the entire profession in the long run. No regional can afford to support it's own independent union and be even slightly effective (dues rates would have to be astronomical), so most regionals would end up with no unions at all, putting incredible downward pressure on wages and work rules. In addition, the new pilots hired at the majors would all come from non-union backgrounds, making it very difficult to keep a cohesive union together at the major level after a lot of these non-union pilots are hired. In short, it would be the destruction of our profession. We need to all stick together. Kicking anyone out would be a big mistake.

 

[G2T]

Something must be wrong with your math

The math is fine, it was the ego that influenced the rest of the post.

 

[DoinTime]

Again, the CPZ pilots seem to feel that the reps they have are doing more than a fine job of representing them. Let them have what they want.

None of this revolves around what the CPZ pilots want. Even if it did, how does anyone know what they want when nobody there has been elected to represent them? If the mainline representing the regionals is such a good arrangement then why don't all of the ALPA DCI carriers join up? If the NW MEC thought that this was such a great arrangement then why didn't they make a push years ago to take in PCL and MSA?

 

[PCL_128]

None of this revolves around what the CPZ pilots want.

Which is exactly the problem.

Even if it did, how does anyone know what they want when nobody there has been elected to represent them?

The CPZ pilots voted for the NWA reps that sit on the DAL MEC, so it's fallacy to say that they don't have representation. They just don't have representation in a form that you apparently wan them to have. As far as knowing what they want, ask a few CPZ pilots. I think you'll have a hard time finding any that want to be broken out.

If the mainline representing the regionals is such a good arrangement then why don't all of the ALPA DCI carriers join up?

Sounds good to me.

If the NW MEC thought that this was such a great arrangement then why didn't they make a push years ago to take in PCL and MSA?

PCL and MSA started as independent airlines. CPZ was started as a special entity as part of the NWA concessions. From its birth, it was part of NWA ALPA. That's a bit different than trying to swallow up other MECs that have been independent since their beginnings. But hey, I would love to see everyone as one big happy family, so let's merge every list and create one big MEC!