Compass agreement

[Monster Buck]

It's true Profit. Not a single XJ pilot was invited to interview during the last round of hiring. It was flow or nothing for the XJ NWA wanna-bees

Profit is calling BS on the MEC being a part not NWA HR.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Actually Profit and Pinchnickle(sorry couldn't help myself) are correct on NWA HR. I have first hand knowledge of that situation. In so many slick words I was told by NWA HR directly that they felt that they were would be pulling enough from XJ with the flow. They were not looking to increase above that.

Pinchnickle couldn't be closer to the truth about that place... spend 20 dollars to save a dime.

Thats exactly what I was told about NWA HR... they felt they were having to pay for training to pilots by hiring anyone from the feeders (one to NWA and their replacement at XJ or 9E). Dumbest thing I've ever heard, but that's the culture of NWA HR.

 

[Superpilot92]

I'm pretty certain you don't know what you're talking about. What you are saying is that NW MEC told mgmt to NOT interview XJ pilots to keep a leapfrog from happening? Meanwhile, its fine to hire 3,000hr wonder-pilots like you?

I'm calling BS on that one. If you want to join in with false info, maybe you should have some facts to attempt to back it up.

Have another beer Super, and then maybe STFU. I can respect opinions I don't like, but they have to be intelligent first.

Has to be intelligent? HAHA look at your posts! I never said the MEC had anything to do with hiring. I said XJ pilots werent called because they have a Flow through (oder of who goes and when). Guess what? Just like XJ, no CPZ was able to get hired outside of the flow either. I stated the facts and you argued them because you didnt like what i said. Tough shiat cause thats the truth. Trying to respond or reason with you is like talking to a 4 year old who just crapped his pants in front of all his friends. :erm:

Bottom line is YOU are wrong and cant admit it. How many people on here need to tell you how it works before you comprehend it? You look like a moron coming on here with your Whining and flamebait posts. :bawling:

Its pretty easy to see why a guy with your attitude hasnt made the move anywhere else.

 

[~~~^~~~]

That is way to broad of a brush stroke and simply not true.

You are correct, this is just my opinion, but, I don't see how it is not true. With all of the factional & corporate hiring during their run, most of the pilots at a "regional" are pilots who just did not want to go somewhere else. (Is your point that these guys could not get hired anywhere? If so, they probably could not have remained hired at their regional. They might have been given one line check too many if you know what I mean)

Still, they don't like it if they see Compass get on the Delta train and pull out of the station without them.

As far as the pay cut went, there were friends pulling down $125 to $140K a year at ASA and one guy was said to have been bragging about breaking $200K (or was it $225) at SkyWest as an IP/APD. The deal for Line Check Airmen might have changed, but I think if you are willing to live in the sims there is some relatively good money being made that would be hard to replace for a while after making the jump to another airline.

A senior LCA/APD makes $130K without breaking a sweat at ASA. Compass LCA's probably make less due simply to lack of longevity.

It is what it is. I'm pulling for the APA to bring American's pay up to a level we can all build on.

 

[NuGuy]

Has to be intelligent? HAHA look at your posts! I never said the MEC had anything to do with hiring. I said XJ pilots werent called because they have a Flow through (oder of who goes and when). Guess what? Just like XJ, no CPZ was able to get hired outside of the flow either. I stated the facts and you argued them because you didnt like what i said. Tough shiat cause thats the truth. Trying to respond or reason with you is like talking to a 4 year old who just crapped his pants in front of all his friends. :erm:

Its pretty easy to see why a guy with your attitude hasnt made the move anywhere else.

You are correct, this is just my opinion, but, I don't see how it is not true. With all of the factional & corporate hiring during their run, most of the pilots at a "regional" are pilots who just did not want to go somewhere else. (Is your point that these guys could not get hired anywhere? If so, they probably could not have remained hired at their regional. They might have been given one line check too many if you know what I mean)

Still, they don't like it if they see Compass get on the Delta train and pull out of the station without them.

Heyas Super and Fins,

I agree with both of you. I came up from the scooters, and I saw just about every personality type there was.

A mass frenzy of hiring happened between late 95 and mid 2001. Just about anyone who wanted to could have made the cut somewhere. Let's look at some excuses:

1) "I can't afford the pay cut": Typically this was divided up between those guys who didn't WANT to take the pay cut (hey, they just NEEDED that new iROC Z-28), and those who had a bad financial situation. However, MOST of the later's financial problems were almost always self induced.

2) "No college": Tough nuts. You knew the rules when the game started. Places like ERAU have home study that is almost too easy to complete, and work just fine to check that box. In reality, many of these guys didn't want to be bothered, and just wanted to cruise for mall chicks in that iROC Z-28, probably in uniform.

3) "I didn't have the time they were looking for". Classic, but irrelevant. Once people make it to the regionals, time is accumulated, more or less, equally. What this person is say is "I wanted to leapfrog over the people who've been doing this longer".

4) "I had my stuff in, I just didn't get called". Then why, pray tell, did 1000's of other guys get called? Because THEY did the homework, kept their ear to the ground, and had the persistence to make sure they got their stuff in ASAP and KEPT it current. They showed interest BEFORE the mad rush started.

5) The DUI/DWI/arrest. NOTHING is going to help these people. They made their bed, and now they have to lie in it.

Every one of these excuses is caused by P^3 (piss poor planning), and now they're mad at the group who bothered to make the effort. They are shallow, mean little people, the same stripe who are pissed at the smart kids for blowing the bell curve.

So, does that mean that everyone falls into this group? No, but I'd say that majority does. The few go-getters that had legitimately bad luck typically make something happen for themselves anyway, and wouldn't be caught whining on the brain trust.

Nu

 

[profit]

Has to be intelligent? HAHA look at your posts! I never said the MEC had anything to do with hiring. I said XJ pilots werent called because they have a Flow through (oder of who goes and when). Guess what? Just like XJ, no CPZ was able to get hired outside of the flow either. I stated the facts and you argued them because you didnt like what i said. Tough shiat cause thats the truth. Trying to respond or reason with you is like talking to a 4 year old who just crapped his pants in front of all his friends. :erm:

Bottom line is YOU are wrong and cant admit it. How many people on here need to tell you how it works before you comprehend it? You look like a moron coming on here with your Whining and flamebait posts. :bawling:

Its pretty easy to see why a guy with your attitude hasnt made the move anywhere else.

Youre right. You didn't say it was enforced by the MEC. Which then would leave mgmt. But if you think they care about new hires "leapfrogging" people with the flow, then you are even less intelligent than I originally gave you credit for.

I'm not even pretty sure I am right. I know I'm right. So I guess I don't see much need to apologize, especially to you.

Perhaps you're a little sensitive since you know there are lots of people more qualified than you out there, and you are starting to realize it.

I'm not whining, just stating some facts about what goes on. Whatever the case, I just don't care what you think.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

He is qualified enough to be a DAL pilot and that says enough. Quit trying to lay it on the table to see who has the longest one. Really, grow up.

 

[profit]

He is qualified enough to be a DAL pilot and that says enough. Quit trying to lay it on the table to see who has the longest one. Really, grow up.

I get it. I need to "grow up" because I have spoken out in conflict with some of your brethren and ideas.

Thats fine. At about 100 posts for me, I will probably retire for a while anyway. I have plenty of better things to do. Best of luck with your resolutions.

 

[JoeMerchant]

He is qualified enough to be a DAL pilot and that says enough. Quit trying to lay it on the table to see who has the longest one. Really, grow up.

That's right....Delta only hires the "best of the best"......

 

[Superpilot92]

Youre right. You didn't say it was enforced by the MEC. Which then would leave mgmt. But if you think they care about new hires "leapfrogging" people with the flow, then you are even less intelligent than I originally gave you credit for.

I'm not even pretty sure I am right. I know I'm right. So I guess I don't see much need to apologize, especially to you.

Perhaps you're a little sensitive since you know there are lots of people more qualified than you out there, and you are starting to realize it.

I'm not whining, just stating some facts about what goes on. Whatever the case, I just don't care what you think.

Thanks for telling me what i "think". its not about who "Cares" about what, its about the rules of a flow agreement. For some reason you want to believe there isnt a process that has to be followed with the agreements and by all means, believe what you want.

As far as being sensitive, Arent you the one on the Majors forum whining and trying to convince everyone how "special" you are? I appreciate you trying to keep up with my qualifications but lets be honest here, you dont know me or my qualifications.

DAL/NWA both had qualifications that were required to get hired. Did you meet those requirements? Do you meet the requirements of any major airline? If so did you apply? Did you get turned down? Fill us in on why you're so bitter towards mainline pilots.

Either way i suggest you figure out how to keep the sense of entitlement attitude in check for future interview purposes.

In all seriousness, Good luck! :beer:

 

[Superpilot92]

That's right....Delta only hires the "best of the best"......

Oh look another one......

 

[JoeMerchant]

Oh look another one......

No seriously....Delta only hires the best of the best....I salute you....Some day maybe I will be as good....

 

[PuffDriver]

I get it. I need to "grow up" because I have spoken out in conflict with some of your brethren and ideas.

Thats fine. At about 100 posts for me, I will probably retire for a while anyway. I have plenty of better things to do. Best of luck with your resolutions.

:bawling: :bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[PuffDriver]

No seriously....Delta only hires the best of the best....I salute you....Some day maybe I will be as good....

We obviously don't hire the worst of the worst.

We salute you:
:bawling: :bawling: :bawling:

 

[exeagle]

Oh look another one......

Please stop quoting this idiot, Merchant. Then I have to see his pathetic ramblings.

 

[profit]

Thanks for telling me what i "think". its not about who "Cares" about what, its about the rules of a flow agreement. For some reason you want to believe there isnt a process that has to be followed with the agreements and by all means, believe what you want.

As far as being sensitive, Arent you the one on the Majors forum whining and trying to convince everyone how "special" you are? I appreciate you trying to keep up with my qualifications but lets be honest here, you dont know me or my qualifications.

DAL/NWA both had qualifications that were required to get hired. Did you meet those requirements? Do you meet the requirements of any major airline? If so did you apply? Did you get turned down? Fill us in on why you're so bitter towards mainline pilots.

Either way i suggest you figure out how to keep the sense of entitlement attitude in check for future interview purposes. In all seriousness, Good luck!

Ok, this will be my final post on this thread. Don't let it hurt your feelings, but I'll be "ignoring" you in the future. Maybe its because you psychically knew that I "pooped my pants," and am so ashamed. Meanwhile, congrats if you passed the 4,000 hr mark. You had previously posted your experience, so I'm not sure why you want to deny it now.

I fully understand the flow process. Your assertions about why XJ pilots were ignored during hiring are false. I had to point that out. And my comments were purely tangential, and made because NU wanted to know my opinion about my view of a staple.

History does repeat itself. Back in 2001, I had a scheduled interview at NWA that never happened. But with my roughly 4,000 hrs at the time, I was in line in front of far more deserving people than me. Now, that doesn't mean I should have passed up my chance..but here's why it was wrong. We actually had some proof that NWA was ignoring anyone who was currently flying the AVRO and going to lower time guys (probably to save on training costs). There were plenty of people who had paid their dues way more than I, who had great training records, etc. And as has been stated on other threads, similar practices have been seen at other carriers as well.

What NWA was doing is a form of discriminatory hiring practice. It is not dissimilar to not interviewing blacks back in the old days. I think it is fundamentally wrong. But if I were truly bitter, I would go hire a lawyer and sue. If you wish to put a label on my factual comments as whining, go right ahead.

I personally don't think I'm entitled to anything. As JC Lawson said, "you don't get what you deserve, you get what you take." And I'm certainly not bitter toward mainline pilots. I have plenty of friends working at lots of majors, including DAL.

Included in that list is MonsterBuck. He applied to Delta when it was still separate. We discussed at length the pluses and minuses about making the jump, vs. waiting for a flow. I'm glad he's at DAL now, and they got a good pilot in the deal. But he had to do it because NWA wouldn't interview him. At the time, I decided against because I it was pre-merger, and I didn't want to take the chance on commuting for life vs. spending more time at home with family.

As for your question about my qualifications, I meet the quals for any major. I have passed up opportunities at JBLU and CAL because I didn't want the commute (and a non-union airline in the case of JBLU). I never applied to cargo airlines because I have done night flying before and will never again.

I could give lots more detail, but this is rapidly becoming a massive waste of time.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Ok, this will be my final post on this thread. Don't let it hurt your feelings, but I'll be "ignoring" you in the future. Maybe its because you psychically knew that I "pooped my pants," and am so ashamed. Meanwhile, congrats if you passed the 4,000 hr mark. You had previously posted your experience, so I'm not sure why you want to deny it now.

I fully understand the flow process. Your assertions about why XJ pilots were ignored during hiring are false. I had to point that out. And my comments were purely tangential, and made because NU wanted to know my opinion about my view of a staple.

History does repeat itself. Back in 2001, I had a scheduled interview at NWA that never happened. But with my roughly 4,000 hrs at the time, I was in line in front of far more deserving people than me. Now, that doesn't mean I should have passed up my chance..but here's why it was wrong. We actually had some proof that NWA was ignoring anyone who was currently flying the AVRO and going to lower time guys (probably to save on training costs). There were plenty of people who had paid their dues way more than I, who had great training records, etc. And as has been stated on other threads, similar practices have been seen at other carriers as well.

What NWA was doing is a form of discriminatory hiring practice. It is not dissimilar to not interviewing blacks back in the old days. I think it is fundamentally wrong. But if I were truly bitter, I would go hire a lawyer and sue. If you wish to put a label on my factual comments as whining, go right ahead.

I personally don't think I'm entitled to anything. As JC Lawson said, "you don't get what you deserve, you get what you take." And I'm certainly not bitter toward mainline pilots. I have plenty of friends working at lots of majors, including DAL.

Included in that list is MonsterBuck. He applied to Delta when it was still separate. We discussed at length the pluses and minuses about making the jump, vs. waiting for a flow. I'm glad he's at DAL now, and they got a good pilot in the deal. But he had to do it because NWA wouldn't interview him. At the time, I decided against because I it was pre-merger, and I didn't want to take the chance on commuting for life vs. spending more time at home with family.

As for your question about my qualifications, I meet the quals for any major. I have passed up opportunities at JBLU and CAL because I didn't want the commute (and a non-union airline in the case of JBLU). I never applied to cargo airlines because I have done night flying before and will never again.

I could give lots more detail, but this is rapidly becoming a massive waste of time.

Fair enough. I was in your boat in 2001. Hired in fact. Had the class canceled on me. Oh well.
There are plenty of guys that got turned down at DAL, took the chance and NWA and DAL merging went to NWA and won that bet. Life is about gambles. Theirs payed off. Your will too.
I personally would not want to wait to flow. If you are an FO at a 1800 pilot regional you could be looking at 10 years. It is a good backup, but not one that I would make my first option.

 

[Raskal]

...I personally would not want to wait to flow. If you are an FO at a 1800 pilot regional you could be looking at 10 years. It is a good backup, but not one that I would make my first option.

Exactly! This is why there is no reason at all to 'change' the flow agreement to provide more convenient furlough protection. Depending on a flow to get anywhere is an incredible waste of time in today's environment.

 

[NuGuy]

Fair enough. I was in your boat in 2001. Hired in fact. Had the class canceled on me. Oh well.
There are plenty of guys that got turned down at DAL, took the chance and NWA and DAL merging went to NWA and won that bet. Life is about gambles. Theirs payed off. Your will too.
I personally would not want to wait to flow. If you are an FO at a 1800 pilot regional you could be looking at 10 years. It is a good backup, but not one that I would make my first option.

Heyas ACL,

I'd forget arguing with these guys. They always have an excuse...

Nu

 

[Monster Buck]

You are correct, this is just my opinion, but, I don't see how it is not true. With all of the factional & corporate hiring during their run, most of the pilots at a "regional" are pilots who just did not want to go somewhere else. (Is your point that these guys could not get hired anywhere? No, definitely not. I know there was hiring but many of us were of the mindset that leaving airline flying to go corporate would damage not help our chances at getting to a Major. We had many leave for these types of places but most were FO's. We had some great years at Mesaba but the last seven were rough. 9-11, then a three year contract fight then bankruptcy. Some did leave for some LCC and small nationals but again it seamed like an unnecessary side step when our desire was to go to a legacy. NWA was obviously shared all our bases so when the flow started it was another factor to deal with. Some started to leave then the market tanked. Many would rather stay at Mesaba if they don't go to a legacy carrier. Some would disagree with that strategy and some wouldn't . But please trust that this was the case, for better or worse, not the quality of the Mesaba pilots. We had and still have an awesome safety record. It comes from great pilots and an awesome training dept. If so, they probably could not have remained hired at their regional. They might have been given one line check too many if you know what I mean)

Still, they don't like it if they see Compass get on the Delta train and pull out of the station without them.

As far as the pay cut went, there were friends pulling down $125 to $140K a year at ASA and one guy was said to have been bragging about breaking $200K (or was it $225) at SkyWest as an IP/APD. The deal for Line Check Airmen might have changed, but I think if you are willing to live in the sims there is some relatively good money being made that would be hard to replace for a while after making the jump to another airline.

A senior LCA/APD makes $130K without breaking a sweat at ASA. Compass LCA's probably make less due simply to lack of longevity.

It is what it is. I'm pulling for the APA to bring American's pay up to a level we can all build on.

The ones trying to leave for a legacy carrier are more than willing to take the hit in pay. The pay at Mesaba doesn't keep those from leaving. Hell many wanted to go to NWA and they had one of the worst pay hits out there.