Comair to Vote on Growth in Exchange for PAY CUTS!

[737 Pylt]

What we've learned in this thread:

Management somehow has managed to grab us firmly by the balls, and pit every pilot group against one another like some old college football rivarlies. It's like you're going to set fire to your neighbors car since he works for your "rival" airline. Hell, many of you fighting probably don't realize that you went to the same schools, served in the same branch of the military, or came from the same defunct airline at some point.

So much for brotherhood.

That's exactly right. Its the "all about me" attitude that will keep this industry's management pukes rollin in the dough all the way to the bank! This is just a job any more to me!
737

 

[InclusiveScope]

That's exactly right. Its the "all about me" attitude that will keep this industry's management pukes rollin in the dough all the way to the bank! This is just a job any more to me!
737

When those "management pukes" get to the bank, they will have to stand in line behind Duane W. ALPA is promoting this "all about me" attitude. Leadership starts at the top.

 

[FarginDooshbahg]

WAH, WAAAHHH, WWAAAAAAHHHHH!!

ALPA this, ALPA that. It's always easier to point the finger and blame others than to look in the mirror at the real problem.

 

[InclusiveScope]

WAH, WAAAHHH, WWAAAAAAHHHHH!!

ALPA this, ALPA that. It's always easier to point the finger and blame others than to look in the mirror at the real problem.

Fargin,

I'll make this really simple so you can understand. Collective bargaining only works if you bargain as a SINGLE COLLECTIVE group. If you bargain as 3 or 4 or 5 separate groups all competing for work from the SAME employer, you will NEVER succeed. Collective bargaining and bidding as "independent contractors" is INCOMPATABLE. Either change it or accept it, those are your options.

 

[DAL737FO]

Based on what I read and heard I would vote NO, if I could.

However, I believe that it will pass by at least 50% plus 1 vote because of the Junior pilots (all the ones hired after 911) and some Senior pilots.

This will be caused by the belief that Comair is still a stepping stone airline and not a career airline even though there was 89 days that changed that stepping stone mind set.

How do you figure this will be because of the junior guys? Just curious, because it would seem that the junior guys are going to be the ones sold out in this deal. Let me see if I have the basics correct. The company is offering you guys extra aircraft and some additional large aircraft in exchange for a pay freeze. Boy I can just see those 2nd, 3rd or 4th year First Officers lining up to vote yes on this one. What is a Captain that is either at or near the max pay giving up? That would be a real hard decision.

B-727 Freight Dawg
I mean MD-88 FO
who knows what tomorrow will bring

 

[FlyChicaga]

Why must you look at Duane Woerth as some sort of Roman Emperor, who commands the masses? He is the President of a union. Yes, leadership comes from the top. But the faultering of the organization comes from the membership.

The problems with ALPA are not solely because of the leadership. The leadership guides the pilot groups the direction they choose to take. Last time I checked, Duane Woerth couldn't vote on the Mesa, Comair, or any other (besides NWA) contract.

When you point fingers at ALPA, realize you are pointing the blame at yourself. That's because YOU are ALPA. Once everyone gives up this "me, me, me; mine, mine, mine" attitude, maybe we can begin to work in unity across company lines for a solution to this ever degrading industry. The paint scheme does not matter. It's the pay, quality of life, and your time off work that matters. Right now those are all suffering because of this infighting between pilot groups. We have let "work" take over our lives.

 

[Slim]

If you are a member of an ALPA-represented pilot group, look at the signature block of your PWA. One of the required signatures is that of the national president. Right now, that's Duane Woerth(less). While he can't vote, he has enough input to kill an agreement, should one be approved by this pilot group.

So, FlyChicaga, ALPA National leadership has a role in this. I have not been to a road show yet to see what, if any, response/input has come from the national level. I agree, however, that local participation is essential.

I communicated my concerns to members of my MEC. There were three specific points I wanted addressed. Only one (the least important of the three) was addressed in any manner. The other two, so far as I can tell, received little attention, if any. The absence of one of the two issues is enough to make me vote against it.

However, I won't make a decision until I have as much information as I can get my hands on.

Fly safe!

 

[HawkDrvr]

I'd like to pose a question. While everyone throws around blame for the current state of the industry I would like to interject a thought and see what people think. I realize that hindsight is often 20/20, but where would we be now if the mainline unions would have scoped regional jets only to be flown by mainline ???

Seems to me that this was the biggest give-away by pilot unions ever... What do you guys think ?

 

[FlyChicaga]

While he can't vote, he has enough input to kill an agreement, should one be approved by this pilot group.

So, FlyChicaga, ALPA National leadership has a role in this.

Why should he kill an agreement? If it is voted upon by the majority membership of the pilot group, then he is saying "Ok, this is what you want, then this is what you get." It may not be in the best interest of the piloting profession as a whole, but he is backing the membership and their decisions.

I'm not saying that ALPA leadership is not partly to blame. What's going on is these pilot groups infighting within ALPA, each trying to undercut each other with pay and work rule concessions to get the upper hand. Instead of the leadership saying, "Enough is enough, let's think about this" they are backing the decisions of each group.

So which is better? Be supportive of the decisions of the ALPA membership on their own futures, or take an authoritative role and direct the groups where they (leadership) think we need to go?

Basically, would you rather dictate your own future, or would you like it to be chosen for you by Dwane Woerth et al?

I'd rather have a say in dictating my own future in this career, with the strength and backing of ALPA. The only problem is, the collective membership of various pilot groups seem to think the only way to go is backwards... so, what to do? Honestly, the best answer is to educate. But there isn't much of that going on. We are all too busy scrambling to fight for our piece of the pie, only looking out for #1.

 

[FlyChicaga]

I'd like to pose a question. While everyone throws around blame for the current state of the industry I would like to interject a thought and see what people think. I realize that hindsight is often 20/20, but where would we be now if the mainline unions would have scoped regional jets only to be flown by mainline ???

Seems to me that this was the biggest give-away by pilot unions ever... What do you guys think ?

Exactly. If mainline would have swallowed their pride and assimiliated the regionals into their own, as allies instead of enemies, a lot of problems would have been averted. Look now... we are at a crossroads. Majors and regionals both fighting to fly the same equipment. Regionals right now are management's wet dream... the ultimate B-scale.