Comair to Vote on Growth in Exchange for PAY CUTS!

[Axel]

I'd like to pose a question. While everyone throws around blame for the current state of the industry I would like to interject a thought and see what people think. I realize that hindsight is often 20/20, but where would we be now if the mainline unions would have scoped regional jets only to be flown by mainline ???

Seems to me that this was the biggest give-away by pilot unions ever... What do you guys think ?

Spot-on. Everyone seems to ignore this fact.

 

[General Lee]

So, why not blame ALPA for everything? Afterwards, you can all pat each other on the back for passing blame, and then all join a circle jerk. I guess ALPA should have scoped anything that had more than one engine too...... Face it, the competition sets the pay rates, and the company (DL) will try to get costs down and stay competitive. We at mainline took a hit, and now they are going after you, and you can either play their game or SkyWest and Chautaqua will get the growth. Heck, they will probably get it anyway because they can actually afford to buy the aircraft..... Time to roll the dice boys...... Good luck.



Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[JI Gone OH]

We Don't Need Another Hero

You guys at Comair really need to stop trying to save the industy, its not helping

BL

Yeah, quit trying to save the world. Wait, I work for that company... Nevermind

 

[doh]

General, I think you miss the point. ALPA did screw up big time back in the 80's by allowing outsourcing. This mess will have to be cleaned up by 1) spending negotiating capital to get the flying back in house gradually. No new planes to outsourcing, in which case people will apply to move over. Or 2) spending negotiating capital to merge lists in some manner. Of course we can just ignore the problem until there is no career left for those who follow. No answer is very satisfying in our life times, but I really believe, with out trying to grab seniority, that we as a union are going to have to face this down, and soon. JMHO. Oh, and I think it's going to cost more to fix this problem than it would have to prevent it, but it's too late now.

 

[CheapFlyer]

we as a union are going to have to face this down, and soon. JMHO. Oh, and I think it's going to cost more to fix this problem than it would have to prevent it, but it's too late now.

Since it hasn't happened by now, I don't think it will ever happen. This alter-ego problem has existed and grown thru both good economic times and a bad recession. Our time as a union to pull us all together was during the last round of mainline concessions. They could have given up the pay cut that management really needed ONLY if they brought all the company branded planes and pilots in-house. Duaene Worthless can talk about a 'brand scope' solution all day long, but no one is willing to put the effort in to make a workable solution.
Each regional airline pilot group is on his own. The mainline driven ALPA has done nothing, and will continue to do nothing in the hopes that this fundamental problem will just go away.

-CF

 

[jarhead]

right on

 

[V-1]

Not to try to bring this thread back on topic, but one of the strongest selling points this opportunity presents to the Comair pilot group (beyond additional aircraft) is the establishment of a guaranteed minimum number of aircraft the company (or any successor should Comair be sold) must operate in revenue service...instant furlough protection for not only the 1800 pilots currently on the seniority list, but also any future pilots hired as a result of growth the opportunity offers.

There is no such language in the current Working Agreement. With Comair shackled to a ship struggling to stay afloat, stronger successorship language and a guaranteed minimum number of aircraft that must be operated should have significant value to all Comair Pilots...irrespective of seat or seniority.

As someone noted earlier, the most vocal voices on this thread tend not to be Comair pilots. Comair pilots have held the bar high for several years now while no one else has been able to equal it, let alone raise it. I don't believe it is the job of the Comair pilot group to carry every other pilot group out there.

If the LOA passes, Comair pilots will still be compensated better than anyone else out there, excepting Horizon and perhaps Express Jet.

It's time for Comair pilots to do what every pilot group must ultimately do...make a decision about the future of their airline and their pilot group. Pilots from other airlines who feel the need to criticize any decision made by the Comair pilot group would be better served by focusing their efforts on areas they have some control over...like their own Working Agreement.

 

[jarhead]

Great Post, V-1. I think you've nailed it.

 

[Palerider957]

Not to try to bring this thread back on topic, but one of the strongest selling points this opportunity presents to the Comair pilot group (beyond additional aircraft) is the establishment of a guaranteed minimum number of aircraft the company (or any successor should Comair be sold) must operate in revenue service...instant furlough protection for not only the 1800 pilots currently on the seniority list, but also any future pilots hired as a result of growth the opportunity offers.

There is no such language in the current Working Agreement. With Comair shackled to a ship struggling to stay afloat, stronger successorship language and a guaranteed minimum number of aircraft that must be operated should have significant value to all Comair Pilots...irrespective of seat or seniority.

As someone noted earlier, the most vocal voices on this thread tend not to be Comair pilots. Comair pilots have held the bar high for several years now while no one else has been able to equal it, let alone raise it. I don't believe it is the job of the Comair pilot group to carry every other pilot group out there.

If the LOA passes, Comair pilots will still be compensated better than anyone else out there, excepting Horizon and perhaps Express Jet.

It's time for Comair pilots to do what every pilot group must ultimately do...make a decision about the future of their airline and their pilot group. Pilots from other airlines who feel the need to criticize any decision made by the Comair pilot group would be better served by focusing their efforts on areas they have some control over...like their own Working Agreement.

I agree it's not your job to carry the industry, especially when so many are so weak.

However, if you think you can gain "minimum flying," and "furlough protection," just ask the DAL pilots how a "no furlough" clause worked for them. These sorts of management guarantees are intangible, and subject to extreme manipulation. The DAL group was promised that there would no management bonusses, what happened? Something like 300K of DAL stock was given.

But I suspect I'm not telling you anything you don't already know.

 

[Palerider957]

Any airline management will never agree to a contract it can't readily violate at it's convenience.

The management clowns at DAL are especially proud of this.