Comair MEC endorses contract changes

[cl65capt]

Not funny at all

Next you'll get a couple days of road shows, then a 72 hour window to vote in and that will be it. All that time and feet dragging to get what you've got and it all goes bye bye in a flash.

 

[AV8700]

Next you'll get a couple days of road shows, then a 72 hour window to vote in and that will be it. All that time and feet dragging to get what you've got and it all goes bye bye in a flash.

not if they vote NO.

 

[cl65capt]

I hope they do

I hope they do vote NO. However, Fred's no dummy, he only needs 51% and talking to some of my buddies over there he just might get it.

 

[bvt1151]

Sounds like some of your buddies are pretty intelligent.

 

[cl65capt]

Sounds to me like Fred is just a way better sales man than Randy ever was. Hope the E170 is worth it.

 

[chperplt]

Why is everyone assuming that the vote will be a majority yes? We all know what happens when we assume.

The fact is that there is a very good chance that the answer will be no. There's no deal with the FAs yet, and probably won't be. Without a deal from both, Fred says the deal is dead.

Why don't we wait and see what the actual verbage is and then argue the points then.

 

[generaltso]

The result to me is pretty obvious, the Comair pilot group will pass it and give up pay for growth. It is ironic how the rest of the industry (CHQ in particular) was hated for doing this, but now Comair will be doing it themselves.

I hope they vote NO, just like I hope every regional pilot votes NO on any contract.

 

[Captain Overs]

We can all thank the Freedom Air pilots, I mean scabs, (OOPS!) did I say that? I mean Mesa pilots who jumped over fellow pilots to fly a 70-90 seat jet for peanuts only to be put back on the Mesa list. Thanks for lowering the bars you jack*sses! I guess the saying "Pay peanuts get monkeys" is true.

 

[DougCorp-9]

When I worked a Comair everyone always looked at what we were getting so they could piggyback on our agreement. After 9/11 many regionals gave concessions but not Comair. Last I checked they are still where they were the day the current contract was signed. So my question is.... why don't all you people stop bitching and do some of you own f--king work instead of worrying about what Comair pilots are doing. How about you all improve your own contracts. The Comair guys are probably sick of looking around and seeing themselves getting sold out so they figure they might as well look out for number one.

 

[fugghedabowdit]

Well said DC-9

The bottom line is we have no idea how this vote will go because we have no idea whats in the freakin thing. One of the many lessons learned during the strike is that a roadshow presentation can make or break a TA.

 

[N2264J]

Re: Comair MEC endorses contract...

I hope they do vote NO. However, Fred's no dummy, he only needs 51% and talking to some of my buddies over there he just might get it.

No - a common misconception. Fred only needs 50% plus one vote.

 

[standaman]

Just wait

I think we should all wait until the details come out. There could still be a "gotcha" clause in the contract in which nobody would vote for it. We will have something to argue later this week.

 

[JetPilot_Mike]

From another board. I find this a pretty good sumation:

I'm still waiting for "the DETAILS", but I have a question for you.

Has Any OTHER airline at least met us on our contract in the LAST 4 years? Did chataqua raise or meet our contract? Mesa?(joke)How about PSA, or republic, Skywest, Co-EX, Eagle? What if US AIR folds, where are there "small airlines" going to want to fly? Even scarier, What if United goes? Do you really believe any of these "other" brothers would say "no we won't fly comairs planes/routes? We'll take the hit and be unemployed." When it was THIER turn they ALL caved! The morale high ground will not feed my or your family. Believe me please, I don't like it, but it's the hard reality. We/our pilot group cannot raise the small jet industry alone, the others must join in. They haven't.
I refuse to feel bad when I fight to keep what we have, I tried to help everyone for 89 days. They in turn STABBED me in the back, and undercut my salary, benefits, and work rules.

I/we stood the high ground for 89 days and raised the "BAR" for everyone, BUT they( other pilot groups) let US down! They have undercut our contract in the name of growth.(**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty kitty) They 've accepted Jet for jobs,(psa, allegeny) contracts w/in contracts,(republic) and slashed their pay rates(skywest)to keep/improve there position. I don't see them worrying about how they effect or harm us or the industry as a whole.

SORRY they DO NOT DESERVE MY LOYALTY. We better look out for number one, US!!!!!

 

[DougCorp-9]

From another board. I find this a pretty good sumation:

I'm still waiting for "the DETAILS", but I have a question for you.

Has Any OTHER airline at least met us on our contract in the LAST 4 years? Did chataqua raise or meet our contract? Mesa?(joke)How about PSA, or republic, Skywest, Co-EX, Eagle? What if US AIR folds, where are there "small airlines" going to want to fly? Even scarier, What if United goes? Do you really believe any of these "other" brothers would say "no we won't fly comairs planes/routes? We'll take the hit and be unemployed." When it was THIER turn they ALL caved! The morale high ground will not feed my or your family. Believe me please, I don't like it, but it's the hard reality. We/our pilot group cannot raise the small jet industry alone, the others must join in. They haven't.
I refuse to feel bad when I fight to keep what we have, I tried to help everyone for 89 days. They in turn STABBED me in the back, and undercut my salary, benefits, and work rules.

I/we stood the high ground for 89 days and raised the "BAR" for everyone, BUT they( other pilot groups) let US down! They have undercut our contract in the name of growth.(**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty kitty) They 've accepted Jet for jobs,(psa, allegeny) contracts w/in contracts,(republic) and slashed their pay rates(skywest)to keep/improve there position. I don't see them worrying about how they effect or harm us or the industry as a whole.

SORRY they DO NOT DESERVE MY LOYALTY. We better look out for number one, US!!!!!

That is exactly my point, I just didn't have the time to type it all out earlier.
Thanks Mike!!! When we walked out everyone was thinking, Oh boy, I hope they get a good contract then we can ask for the same thing.

Dougcorp-9

P.S. Good luck Comair pilots. I had a blast working there. That unity will never be surpassed.

 

[DDpaysoff]

From another board. I find this a pretty good sumation:

I'm still waiting for "the DETAILS", but I have a question for you.

Has Any OTHER airline at least met us on our contract in the LAST 4 years? Did chataqua raise or meet our contract? Mesa?(joke)How about PSA, or republic, Skywest, Co-EX, Eagle? What if US AIR folds, where are there "small airlines" going to want to fly? Even scarier, What if United goes? Do you really believe any of these "other" brothers would say "no we won't fly comairs planes/routes? We'll take the hit and be unemployed." When it was THIER turn they ALL caved! The morale high ground will not feed my or your family. Believe me please, I don't like it, but it's the hard reality. We/our pilot group cannot raise the small jet industry alone, the others must join in. They haven't.
I refuse to feel bad when I fight to keep what we have, I tried to help everyone for 89 days. They in turn STABBED me in the back, and undercut my salary, benefits, and work rules.

I/we stood the high ground for 89 days and raised the "BAR" for everyone, BUT they( other pilot groups) let US down! They have undercut our contract in the name of growth.(**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty kitty) They 've accepted Jet for jobs,(psa, allegeny) contracts w/in contracts,(republic) and slashed their pay rates(skywest)to keep/improve there position. I don't see them worrying about how they effect or harm us or the industry as a whole.

SORRY they DO NOT DESERVE MY LOYALTY. We better look out for number one, US!!!!!

-Righteous.

 

[N8Dogg]

JetPilot_Mike,

I do not work for Comair but understand your frustration. When are we all going to stop selling eachother down the river? Management continues to play us (pilots) like a fiddle offering growth and shiny new jets for concessions in QOL, pay and bennefits. Where is ALPA? Where is the unity? Isn't it time to start fighting for the brotherhood/sisterhood of pilots instead of looking out for number 1? I don't blame Comair for heading into negotiations because very few if any have helped carry the torch. Good luck guys!

 

[flaps30]

nope

none, not one.

 

[Tim47SIP]

Ifff

This is very disappointing. I can't believe that the Comair MEC is really going to roll over and die this easily. They didn't even put in a counter offer! This "deal" effectively negates all gains from the strike.

If the Comair pilots ratify this, it spells the end for both an acceptable ASA contract and ASA/CMR unity. They will have sold us out for the carrot of possible growth.

I think you are over reacting JUST A LITTLE BIT! Calm down. This is NOT a bad deal for ASA nor the industry. It has defined a pay scale that Delta can agree on. It makes it much easier for us to negotiate up to Comairs level. Additionally, as I have stated on numerous occasions, more jets ALSO must be put into the QOL and pay equation. As the above posters stated, the other carriers would just as well undercut Comair for the growth Comair will get. It is almost as if the chest thumpers on here dont want Comair to get the aircraft so that their carriers can underbid to get them. Talk about hypocrisy at its finest. We, ASA/Comair, need to get all of the aircraft on our property ASAP and away from the contract carriers. There are several tools used to accomplish this and this agreement may be one of them.

I for one think it is a win/win for the WO's and a loss for the contract carriers. The Comair guys are NOT selling out the industry by taking a freeze. They will still be one of the highest paid in the industry and will still have the best contract. This is not a step backwards, and does NOT negate all the gains from the previous contract. If anything, it opens the door for ASA pay as well as establishes a whole new future for Comair.

 

[JetLinkin Park]

From another board. I find this a pretty good sumation:

I'm still waiting for "the DETAILS", but I have a question for you.

Has Any OTHER airline at least met us on our contract in the LAST 4 years? Did chataqua raise or meet our contract? Mesa?(joke)How about PSA, or republic, Skywest, Co-EX, Eagle? What if US AIR folds, where are there "small airlines" going to want to fly? Even scarier, What if United goes? Do you really believe any of these "other" brothers would say "no we won't fly comairs planes/routes? We'll take the hit and be unemployed." When it was THIER turn they ALL caved! The morale high ground will not feed my or your family. Believe me please, I don't like it, but it's the hard reality. We/our pilot group cannot raise the small jet industry alone, the others must join in. They haven't.
I refuse to feel bad when I fight to keep what we have, I tried to help everyone for 89 days. They in turn STABBED me in the back, and undercut my salary, benefits, and work rules.

I/we stood the high ground for 89 days and raised the "BAR" for everyone, BUT they( other pilot groups) let US down! They have undercut our contract in the name of growth.(**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**ty kitty) They 've accepted Jet for jobs,(psa, allegeny) contracts w/in contracts,(republic) and slashed their pay rates(skywest)to keep/improve there position. I don't see them worrying about how they effect or harm us or the industry as a whole.

SORRY they DO NOT DESERVE MY LOYALTY. We better look out for number one, US!!!!!

From an XJT guy, I say again......THANK YOU. I voted NO on our current agreement although your MEC endorsed the final language. However, if not for you guys we would have had very little leverage. I also apologize on behalf of our pilot group and MEC for not further "raising the regional bar". What you said was true, every word of it, and you're right- better look out for good ole number one. Your pilot group has my loyalty, something I can barely give my own.

 

[Freebrd]

From the ASA ALPA Communication Committee (something to think about):


Imagine that you work for the Whirlpool Company. You're a factory technician, trained to
program and operate the robotic machinery that stamps and shapes the sheet metal used to
fabricate Whirlpool washers and dryers.

One day, your boss comes to you and says, "We need to grow this company, and in order to do
that, we have to purchase six more Washer-bot 5000 machines and another six Dryer-bot 4000
machines. Those darn things are expensive though, so we're going to ask you to take a pay
freeze."

What would you say? More importantly, what would you think?

Your initial thoughts might be, "Wait a minute. He says we need to grow and that's good. But
if we need to buy more machines, that must mean we have to increase production. If we have to
increase production, that must mean there's a market for more washers and dryers. If there's a
market for more washers and dryers, that must mean the company will sell more units and make
more money."

As you mull this over, you might draw the following conclusion: "So if the demand for more
washers and dryers is greater than our current ability to produce them, that's an indication
that business is good. And if business is good, why the heck is the boss asking me to endorse a
freeze in my pay? And WHO picked out that tie he's wearing?"

Well, we don't build appliances; we fly airplanes. However, the story we've presented is
exactly the same as the circumstances confronting Comair pilots. Comair President Fred
Buttrell has asked them to "take a hit" for growth.

Just as the factory technician doesn't decide how many machine tools his company will purchase,
we don't decide how many airplanes ASA or DCI or Delta should buy.

Your MEC will update you over the next few days with more information about this important
matter as details become available.