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Comair FO awakens

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CFIse said:
You have no reason to believe that any of those factors are related to this accident. Even if both pilots had only got 5 hours sleep that night they should still not have been fatigued 3 hours after they woke up.

I say again - this is not a fatigue accident, and trying to make it one just undermines all the issues that really exist around pilot fatigue.

Circadian rythms have EVERYTHING to do with fatigue. Search long enough and you'll find a study of German Air Force pilots. One group was studied the same time each day, and the other was studied at various times, but with legal rest between each time. The obvious reason was to test the affect of circadian rythms.

The performance of the crews that went into the sim the same time each day had a slight increase in performance. The other crew had a drastically different issue. While performance didn't decrease uniformly, it was very irratic, and never exceeded the other (control) group. Their performance trended worse as the study went on. The interesting thing was that at times, their performance wasn't that much better than when they did the same study with drunk crews.

Circadian rythms have been proven to have a drastic affect on pilots.
 
bvt1151 said:
Take Genesis 32 verse 25. It talks about a man named Jacob who meets a stranger in a dark ally and wrestles him for hours. The man ends up being God (this story is obviously a spiritual interpretation of some other event).

"When the man saw that he could not overpower him, he touched the socket of Jacon's hip so that his hip was wrenched as he wrestled with the man."

The original Hebrew that this was written in mentions nothing of a hip and socket. In fact a direct translation from Hebrew reveals that God actually kicked Jacob right square in the nuts!

Well, I certainly don't want to get into a religious discussion... I can't stand people who proselytize-- I don't bring up religion with others unless they ask, and don't appreciate when others try to convince me of their religious beliefs.

Having said that, you mentioned the text as written in the original Hebrew. As Jews read Torah in it's original language and form (handwritten scrolls in Hebrew), I thought you might appreciate knowing what is actually written.

The following link discusses the section you referenced: Genesis 32:15. (Genesis is called Bereishis in Hebrew. Observant Jews all over the world read the same Parshah (section) of the Torah (Bible) on the same day, and each week's Parshah is named... The second section of the Parsha (weekly section to be read) "Vayishlach" on December 4th this year will be Bereishis (Genesis) 32:11 to 32:30. The English translated text is on the left, and commentary is on the right.)

http://www.chabad.org/Parshah/Rashi/default.asp?tDate=12/4/2006&src=ds

More in-depth:

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/in-depth/default.asp?AID=35877

A variety of other links (including a link to the original Hebrew):

http://www.chabad.org/parshah/default.asp?AID=15554
 
Motown said:
Having said that, you mentioned the text as written in the original Hebrew. As Jews read Torah in it's original language and form (handwritten scrolls in Hebrew), I thought you might appreciate knowing what is actually written.

The translation came to me directly from a Doctoral Seminary Professor of Hebrew who was translating directly from the original scripts.

In your translation (which seems to stick to the literal meaning of "thigh"), the translator even concedes in the commentary that: "When the angel of Esau injured Jacob's hip-joint, he injured his righteous descendants."

Sounds like a shot to the family jewels to me.
 
Some of you guys think like the taliban. I guess I am an infidel because this talk about God is really getting on my nerves.
Tell me this. Who created God? What was before God?
This crap with Allah (God) is getting old and is dragging the United States back in to the middle ages. The more advanced a nation, the less need for Allah. Comair guys screwed up. Sh$t happens. I feel for all those affected. Good luck to all the guys at Comair and a speedy recovery for the FO.

Peace

Marty
 
GOD Correction

MCDU said:
Some of you guys think like the taliban. I guess I am an infidel because this talk about God is really getting on my nerves.
Tell me this. Who created God? What was before God?
This crap with Allah (God) is getting old and is dragging the United States back in to the middle ages. The more advanced a nation, the less need for Allah. Comair guys screwed up. Sh$t happens. I feel for all those affected. Good luck to all the guys at Comair and a speedy recovery for the FO.

Peace

Marty

You are totally getting things crossed about GOD. allah is a god and not the GOD. allah (name not worthy of capitalizing) was a god (of the moon) of many gods approx. 400-600 years ago that was made known by, then , a young man named mohammed.
 
Matty4me said:
To the posting above:
You sir/ma'am are an idiot. The one individual that needs prayer is you. The F/O is getting the prayer that he needs from others. What is ashame is that you believe that evolution is beginning, man is supreme, we did this...
The problem is that you have not been touched by the Holy Spirit. Hell needs people like you.

It makes me physically ill that someone would wish hell on another person under the pretense of Christianity. I am sure that these statements were not made by the direction of the Holy Spirit, but rather by the direction of someone who does nothing but try to warp the true nature of God. I sincerely apologize to the person that these comments were directed to. It is my prayer that comments like this do not push you farther away. This is not the how God feels about you.
 
Last edited:
What a bunch of idiots.

How about we all just hope/pray for the poor guy.

Then let's all thank whomever we please, we're not in his shoes.
 
Crossky said:
Amen to that brother. I believe that God will be glorified in his life in the future. Word is, he had been reading the Bible regularly in the recent past. God regularly uses tragedy to bring Glory to himself. Remember the cruxifixion of Jesus Christ? (tragedy) How about his resurrection? (Glory!)

Anyway, what or who created the Universe? That entity was and is Almighty God. One of Newton's laws supposes to prove it, 'The cause of every reaction is an equal and opposite reaction'. You say "who created God?" Well, who created who created God, and on to infinity. That reasoning has to stop somewhere, and logically, it stops at God. So, God created the universe, and our galaxy, solar system, planet, and us humans by default, at the very least.

The question really to be asked is "Is God a personal or impersonal God?" And the answer is found in the person of Jesus Christ.
All this Is according to Uncyclopedia.org

Ummmm hello............ Both Pirate Ninja Jesus and Chuck Norris were responsible for the creation of the Milky Way

Poof, There It Is Theory is one of the most popular theories used to explain the creation of the universe. The theory is quite complex but it can be simplified to something like this: In the beginning, there was no universe, and then; POOF!
There it was.


The Universe

Science fiction writers argue contentiously about the origin and structure of the Universe. Many authors posit other "dimensions" which exist parallel to work-a-day reality, claiming that these unseen forces somehow kickstarted the Universe. However, quantum physicists studying subatomic particles (entities smaller than regular particles) conclude that the Universe must have been created. As Dr. Waingirth of New Sudsbury said, "With all our accelerators and colliders, we cannot make a single quark[1] unless we call upon God Himself."
This finding comes nearly 2,500 years after the Greek philosopher Idiocrates figured out that something must have gotten the ball rolling. Indeed, the Greek Word for this universal "prime mover" is primum mobile, or Premium Mobil Gasoline.
Remarkably prescient, those Greeks.
[edit]
Poof, There It Is!


Premise

Everything exists. Everything is. How did it get to be so? Poof: There It Is.
This explanation might seem very simple to some people. Well, it is simple! But others, troublemakers and doubting Thomases, ask "What causes a Poof?" and "What are a Poof's inner workings?"
However, there is nothing more to the Poof than the Poof itself. As the poet put it, "A poof is a poof is a poof." In a word, a Poof is. In two words, it is self-sufficient.
And yet...a Poof is not a spontaneous event. Far from it. We must understand a Poof as a meticulously-planned random event. If you understand that concept, then you have come one step closer to knowing the Poof. If not, try your luck here.
[edit]
Why is the Theory Called Poof, There It Is? Wouldn't Big Bang Sound Better?

No, it wouldn't. And besides, "Big Bang Theory" was already taken. The fallacious BB theory states that everyone wants to go out with a bang (or in layman's terms, die whilst getting laid.) Poof, There It Is Theory allows far more complexity than ordinary Big Bang Theory since it is the framework that holds the universe together, while the Big Bang just concerns sex. Poof, There It Is constitutes the cement — the rock-solid concrete — of the cosmos. Some people call Poof, There It Is "the new causation."
However, there is no way to apply the scientific method to Poof, There It Is. Academics dispute the validity of the premise, bickering, shouting, spilling tea down their shirtfronts. This works out well for Poof, There It Is: its universal framework explains the pedagogical academics and their sniveling as well.
[edit]
Consequences of Poof, There It Is

We know nothing of consequences in Poof, There It Is Theory. As we wrote previously, everything is and has been since the Poof. Quite simple, really. The theory negates cause and effect because everything is explained by Poof, There It Is.
Magictology is the only earthly religion that recognizes the validity of Poof, There It Is, and professional magictologists are sometimes called "poofters" for this very reason. In the realm of Poof There It Is, imagination rules, because everything bursts into existence through the mental faculties of the original Poofter.

http://uncyclopedia.org/skins/common/images/magnify-clip.png
Several books have been released on the topic of Poof, There It Is, most notably this fictionalization of the matter by L. Ron Hubbard.


[edit]
How Did The First Poofter Poof?

We know nothing about the first Poof, except that it must have happened. If it hadn't happened, we would have never been Poofed, wouldn't be here, and therefore couldn't ask the question "How Did The First Poofer Poof?" Our existence proves that there must have been a first Poof. Most Poofters accept this "primum mobile" aspect of the theory, since it's true. Also, the competing "Blammo the Clown Theory" is just plain stupid, since balloon animals are so 1987
[edit]
Poofs and Dates

We have compiled a short list of things poofed into the Universe. A mighty Poof created the Universe itself, of course, so subsequent Poofs are second derivatives which exist only because of the First Poof.
  • June 16, 2816 BC 6:15 PM Chinese Poofter Mai Tai poofs gunpowder into existence to make fireworks.
  • August 4, 1101 4:28 AM Turkish Poofter Saladin poofs a trade route between Eastern Asia and Constantinople into existence.
  • October 27, 1897 7:44 AM Jesus poofs His Second Coming into existence. However, unlike the previous Poofs, few people notice, and Jesus goes home to Kathmandu bitterly dissapointed.
[edit]
Hybrid Theory

Most recently in 2006, quantum poofologists have proposed a hybrid model known as the "Big Poof There It Is Theory", which is just like the regular Poof There It Is Theory, but adds the bigness associated with the classical Big Bang. It goes like this:
In the beginning, there was no universe, and then;

POOF!

There it was.
 
And as for God......


God (born Herschel Godstein) is possibly the best known fictional entity on Earth after The Beatles. He was elected to be our god for the 2006th year running this year, barely beating the Egyptian sun god Ra, Omnipotent Odin, and the Almighty Zeus (still recovering from alcoholism). He is also dog spelled backwards. As of the 3rd Qtr of 2005, the Republican Party claimed the largest share of ownership of God. It should be noted that God has been under the investigation of the SEC several times, because of the attempted claiming of two dependents, a supposed "Holy Spirit" and a "Son", who have never been seen by authorities. However, God has made the argument that as they exist on the same plane as himself, he can list them as dependents if he "damn well pleases".
 
In the end we will ALL see. To each their own. God Bless and Fly Safe Everyone. :beer:
 
Jetz said:
I pity you and your soul.

Why don't you take 2 minutes tomorrow, and everyday thereafter, to read the Bible.

I would not say it was God's will that the crash happened. I would, however, say that it was God's will that Polehinke survived.

How could it not be god's will that it happened??

According to you believers, isn't everything that happens God's will? Isn't he some completely omniscient, all powerful being??

This is one thing that has always made me laugh. God knows everything and has the power to control everything, yet people always talk about God's "anger" at the way the world goes.

Well, it would seem to me that if God knows EVERYTHING and has power over EVERYTHING as you people claim, that means he knew that the holocaust was going to happen, he knew 9/11 was going to happen, he knew Comair 5191 was going to happen, yet he decided to let it happen??

What sort of sick twisted cruel uncaring and nasty being would allow such a thing? And then people who claim God is omniscient also manage to say he LOVES us in the same breath!!!!!!?????? (see above paragraph).

There are alot of things in this world I can't explain but the idea that there is some cosmic supreme being??? COME ONN!!!!!! WAKE UP AND SMELL THE COFFEE PEOPLE?? It doesn't make any sense.........

You'd think that in this day and age with all the technology that's come out and with all sorts of advances in medical sciences and physics and everything that this fanciful fairytale would have been put to bed a LOOOOONNNNGGGG time ago.

Reality is that believing in a supreme being belongs to a time and place when we didn't have the understanding of things the way we do now.

There was a time when people did not have the technology or the knowledge of viruses and bacteria so they assumed when people became sick and died it was a simple case of God's will, or they were evil people.

There was a time when people would look up at the sky and marvel at the stars and the moon and see them as magical pieces of creation and have no way to explain them other than they're God's handywork. But we know better now. As an earlier poster said before, it's absolutely astounding that intelligent people still believe in this crap.

I know people have strong views contrary to mine, but I can't quite understand why... Do you people believe in the tooth fairy and the easter bunny too?? Come on now
 
aussie,

Wow. Somebody seems a little bitter. Science is (seems) irrefutable. We see, we prove, done. The problem is that people think that science disproves the bible. In fact the very OPPOSITE is happening. Science is now able to prove a lot of the stories in the bible.

Don't believe in the star of Bethlehem? Science can prove that Mars and Jupiter came together in the Eastern sky to form a bright "star" the year Jesus was born.

Don't believe in the splitting of the Red Sea? Actual translations are of the "Reed Sea" and it has been proven that a shallow sea such as this can be "split" by several phenomina, including an earthquake/volcano which took place around the time of Moses' exodus.

Don't believe in an intelligent start to the universe? Even the most prominent physicists who spent their entire lives proving the big bang now find themselves as a victim of their own work. If it indeed DID happen, there's no explaination for what caused it other than an intelligent force.


The problem most people have is trying to extract scientific data from a religious book. Take the creation story, for example. By definition, nobody was around to document it, and as a result we have a story of the seven days one would expect. Further examination of archeologists findings show species "explosions" such as the pre-cambrian explosion where hundreds of thousands of species just showed up. These "explosions" cannot be explained through evolution. This doesn't fit the literal text of the bible, but sure fits in the theme of new species being "created" on the earth at different time segments with Human's last.


Did you know Darwin was a Christian? Did you know that Christians understand that evolution exists, but also understand what the "unexplained phenomina" in the evolutionary tale are due to?


My point is that if you're going to try to use reasoning or science to disprove the existence of a Supreme Being, you'd better make sure you're getting the facts. Some people are so afraid to be "fooled" by Christians, they're eager to be just as fooled by science.
 
Science doens't start out with a conclusion, e.g. the red sea was parted, and work backwards to a theory about how that could have happened. Science and religion are NOT complimentary fields.

However, Aussie, if Mr. Polehinke, who, by the way, this thread is about, finds comfort in religion, so be it. He will need all the help he can get to get through this. On behalf of all SkyWest pilots, I wish him the best.
 
bvt1151,

I mentioned earlier in my post that I am indeed mystified by many phenomena not least of which is the origins of the universe.

I also am not bitter in the slightest, some of my best and dearest friends are devout christians and I've engaged in many hours of respectful debate about Christianity and I just don't feel it makes ANY sense.

How can you people sit there with a straight face and say that some INVISIBLE FORCE created the universe and everything within it? It's a complete cop-out. May as well say that the universe was farted out of the butt of a huge space-elephant...

If you're trying to tell me that all the stories in the bible actually happened then I would again ask you if you believe in the tooth fairy or santa claus. I'm pretty sure even most Christians would tell you that many of the stories in the bible are merely meant to be read to extract the moral teachings they may have to offer.

I went to a Christian high school and so attended religious classes and went to church a lot at school, so I've been exposed to alot of the bible even though I'd be lying if I said that I've read it from cover to cover.

It's not like I think the bible is a POS document. I believe it to be an interesting read full of wonderful stories which have much to teach people about how to treat your fellow man and the like.

But, people who blindly take the bible as God's word and believe as gospel everything within the covers are delusional. Do you really think some old man gathered up all the animals in the world and stuck them on a ship because a flood covered the whole world and everything else died?? Please!!!!

There are hundreds of fanciful fairytales in the bible which people would have to have rocks in their head to take literally...

As I said, there are lots of people who disagree with me, and some of my best friends are in that category, but if you're intelligent and can see logic and reason it baffles me how people can buy this $h*t
 
jayme said:
Science doens't start out with a conclusion, e.g. the red sea was parted, and work backwards to a theory about how that could have happened. Science and religion are NOT complimentary fields.

However, Aussie, if Mr. Polehinke, who, by the way, this thread is about, finds comfort in religion, so be it. He will need all the help he can get to get through this. On behalf of all SkyWest pilots, I wish him the best.

Jayme,

I couldn't agree more with you my friend...

One of the best things about religion is that it gives people a feeling of meaning to their lives (whether or not that feeling of meaning is justified is another matter). I have always said that no matter what religion a person believes in, if it makes him a better person for having the faith then it's definately a good thing.

For example... If I believed that the tooth fairy was my lord and saviour and she had commanded me to live my life as a good person and help old people and be kind to children etc. so that I could get into some little tooth fairy heaven where everyone's teeth were white and there were hot little magical ladies flyin around then that would be a good thing too...

Ok I'm being silly now, I'm done
 
Let me also add that I'm sure Mr Polehinke will be having the toughest of times in his road to emotional and physical recovery and I wish him all the very best for the future, as I'm sure everyone here does.
 
jayme said:
Science doens't start out with a conclusion, e.g. the red sea was parted, and work backwards to a theory about how that could have happened. Science and religion are NOT complimentary fields.

Actually, science does start out with the conclusion that God doesn't exist. Take the big bang, for instance. They tried so hard to prove that God didn't exist that they accidentally proved He did. They realize that it violated their number one assumption and some are now trying to say "well maybe the big bang never happened."
Religion is NOT science. Its based on faith, and will never be used to "prove" anything. Science, however, requires disproof. Nothing can be totally proven, only disproven. Only after so many unsuccessful attempts at disproving something does science consider it proven. Its why we try to disprove the null hypothesis. Science has tried and tried to disprove God, and has been unsuccessful. How many unsuccessful disprovals are we going to shrug off before we consider the possibility?

aussieflyboy said:
bvt1151,

How can you people sit there with a straight face and say that some INVISIBLE FORCE created the universe and everything within it? It's a complete cop-out. May as well say that the universe was farted out of the butt of a huge space-elephant...
Nobody believed in the invisible air until it was proven to exist. Now we put our hands in the lives of this "invisible force" everytime we jump into the cockpit. Just because you can't see it...
As far as not believing in the invisible force that "farted out" the universe, I suggest you do some scientific research into the latest theories on the big bang. The question no longer is if God exists, its whether or not he has anything to do with us now.

If you're trying to tell me that all the stories in the bible actually happened then I would again ask you if you believe in the tooth fairy or santa claus. I'm pretty sure even most Christians would tell you that many of the stories in the bible are merely meant to be read to extract the moral teachings they may have to offer.
If you're trying to compare God to the tooth fairy or Santa Clause, you're way out in left field. First of all, when we hit 10, your parents don't admit to being God. Second of all, you obviously don't understand what the Bible is. Its a religious document written by a bunch of different people, very few of which actually new each other. Some of it is based on oral history, others are writings that were "voted" in by the early Catholic church and therefore is inherently flawed. It is not this document that was left smoking when a lightning bolt hit a piece of granite. I was told by a scholar that there are only 11 absolutes in the Bible, with the eleventh being that Jesus was the son of God. Outside of that, a lot of things are left to interpretation, most of which the "church" interpreted as an absolute.

I went to a Christian high school and so attended religious classes and went to church a lot at school, so I've been exposed to alot of the bible even though I'd be lying if I said that I've read it from cover to cover.
Ick. Christians schools. Its ironic how the people who do the most damage to Christianity are those that think they're helping.

But, people who blindly take the bible as God's word and believe as gospel everything within the covers are delusional. Do you really think some old man gathered up all the animals in the world and stuck them on a ship because a flood covered the whole world and everything else died?? Please!!!!
I have to admit that this was one of the stories I thought was wacko, until I started researching it (outside the Bible). I think there are some major losses due to translation and early writing and recording techniques, but the story does make a lot of sense. Do a search on "Mount Ararat" and you'll find some very convincing evidence that the ark did indeed exist. I'm not entirely sold on it yet, but it is intriguing. Granted, I don't buy that the entire world flooded and only the species he brought on board survived, but you have to take into account the perspective from which it was written. For a group of people living in a 200 square-mile area, if that 200-mile square area flooded, it would mean to them that the whole world flooded.

There are hundreds of fanciful fairytales in the bible which people would have to have rocks in their head to take literally...
You are absolutely correct! And that's the thing; modern Christians (at least the intelligent ones) are rereading the Bible with a critical eye. The days of taking every last word of the Bible literally are over. I've brought the same reservations you expressed to several Bible scholars, and to my suprise, they said I was right. There are some serious issues with the Bible, some of which you've pointed out. But when I studied the background into the people writing the scripts, amazingly a lot of really believable stories started to emerge from their perspective. And that's the irony in it for me. I tried like crazy to disprove the Bible using science. The fact is it can't be done. The parts that can be disproven are inconsequential and can easily be accountable to the perception of the writer, translation, or the suprisingly common issue that the writer never intended for his writing to be in a holy book.

As I said, there are lots of people who disagree with me, and some of my best friends are in that category, but if you're intelligent and can see logic and reason it baffles me how people can buy this $h*t

I don't care if you're a Christian, or if you ever become one. I'm not that good of one myself. I'm a pilot, therefore I rely almost entirely on logic. On the surface many people discount the Bible as illogical, but upon further study, I can tell you that it is extremely logical. Don't think that what you hear from "Christian's" has anything to do with the truth, and don't let some wacko tell you what "is" and what "isn't." They don't know, and are only regurgitating what someone else told them. If you really want to know, take the time to research it on your own. Suprised the h3ll out of me.
 
buscap said:
What a bunch of idiots.

How about we all just hope/pray for the poor guy.

Then let's all thank whomever we please, we're not in his shoes.


Thank You!!!
 

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