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Comair CX all flights for 12/25 & 12/26

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I was referring to ASA. Go back and read what I wrote. I was referring to ASA being in bad shape before Delta bought us.

As far as Comair goes, you are right, things are obviously worse off after this past week's showing. You can deny it all you want, what happened in CVG this past week was a complete disaster. Talk about how much better off you were before Delta bought you, whatever, bottom line is right now the $hit hit the fan big time.

I know you'd personally like to blame Delta for your woes, ala the RJDC Lawsuit, but you can't. A major weakness in your company was exposed last week.
 
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They ran out of deice fluid because the trucks couldn't get to the airport to replace what they were using on Wednesday night and Thursday morning.
 
I see this same thing happening in Feb. when ASA shifts all the DFW flying to ATL and our "depeaking" schedule starts! Should be fun, NOT!
 
Stifler's Mom said:
I was referring to ASA. Go back and read what I wrote. I was referring to ASA being in bad shape before Delta bought us.
You referred to both, not just to ASA.

As far as Comair goes, you are right, things are obviously worse off after this past week's showing. You can deny it all you want, what happened in CVG this past week was a complete disaster. Talk about how much better off you were before Delta bought you, whatever, bottom line is right now the $hit hit the fan big time.
I'm not denying that this computer failure is a disaster. It should not have happened and it is our management's fault. No one is denying that. As far as the weather problems are concerned, those were not our fault.

I know you'd personally like to blame Delta for your woes, ala the RJDC Lawsuit, but you can't. A major weakness in your company was exposed last week.
I'm not blaming Delta for this in any way. What I'm doing is objecting to your spin. Considering that at ASA you can't run your operation reliably on any day of the week, with or without computers, you're not in a position to throw any stones at Comair, so don't.

Yes, this did expose a major weakness in our system. We should have had an electronic "mirror" backup and we didn't. We'll take the hit for that and we'll learn from the mistake.

In contrast, your entire ASA management system had to be replaced by Delta people and you still can't run the operation on a good day. Your Atlanta hub is the laughing stock of the industry and well known as the cluster F_K of the day. You are MUCH better off since you were bought but even after 5 years Delta still can't unscramble the everyday mess. So don't start crowing for your house is not glass, it's a permanent shamble.

Delta didn't buy you for the same reason that it bought Comair and everyone knows that, except you. Go pee in your own backyard where noone will notice.
 
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Apologies to the few Comair crews that were stuck in Atlanta and turned away from the Christmas dinner. That was embarrasing!
 
I hear what you are saying, and it would only be considered throwing stones if I said ASA were run better or this hasn't happened to us. If this was ASA and not Comair, I would be just as tough and embarrased. I already mentioned that in one of the many different posts that are going on about this. And now I guess you can no longer throw stones as well, seeing that Comair has now joined the ranks.

Delta bought ASA and Comair to have more control over both. The reasons behind that, are for different reasons I guess. I prefer to write no more than two sentences per post and I guess I should have done a better job separating the two companies. My conversations with ASA Captains center around that ASA and ATL are much better now than they were 5 years ago. Pretty scary stuff to somebody who has only seen the "now" and not the "then".

Is ATL a poorly run station? You only need to listen to the nonstop bickering on the OPS frequency to make your own decision. How many times do we need to call for fuel, lav dumps, wheelchairs, catering, cleaning, or for the dam n guy in E-Tower to help park us....what did I miss?

And by the way, you did say you were better off before Delta bought you.

Perhaps things were "worse" at ASA before Delta bought them, but they were not worse at Comair. In fact the exact opposite is true.
 
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>>>>>How many times do we need to call for fuel, lav dumps, wheelchairs, catering, cleaning, or for the dam n guy in E-Tower to help park us....<<<<<

How many times you ask? How about none, zero! Just sit and wait for the so called Departure Coordinators to show up, and inform them of your requests.

This is the way management wants to run it, so be it. When we get management to become serious in negotiations then maybe, just maybe, we can call ops for these services, which, btw, should be accomplished without requesting them, uh, hmphh, according to the SPs.

And Surplus is entirely right. Comair had their act together, from management on down to the rampers. Just experience Cincy and you'll see the difference. Here at ASA it's been screwed up for decades my friend, decades. Just a different set of managers now, who borrowed the playbook of the original owners. And I've been here (ASA) for quite some time so I know.
 
Stifler's Mom said:
Inexcusable. With the technology available today, there should be a backup system in place, no matter how archaic it may be.

I wonder how much money Delta is going to lose because of this? All of these people will remember their experience on Comair/Delta next time they are given the option of choosing an air carrier.

Anybody know who was responsible for the deicing fluid running out at CVG? Is that the city, airport, or airlines?????? Another fuk up at the worst possible time.

Merry Christmas from the airline industry.
The glycol problem was created by the fact that the airframes had so much ice on them it was taking over an hour to deice one airplane.That is about 5 times the fluid needed per airplane than usual. You use a heck of a lot of glycol in an hour. No one could of anticipated that. It not only snowed but we had sleet and freezing rain for around three hours.
 
Hey, has anyone actually considered blaming CHQ and its pilots?
I'm not sure how but I'm sure someone here has enough imagination to blame CornAirs disaster on us.
 
Bart Simpson said:
Hey, has anyone actually considered blaming CHQ and its pilots?
I'm not sure how but I'm sure someone here has enough imagination to blame CornAirs disaster on us.
Nope, you're the only one so far. Funny, feeling guilty? Did you think of CornAir all by yourself? Clever!
 
about the only positive note to the Comair shutdown - maybee comair saved several peoples lives over the past few days. Who knows, maybee someone would have been traveling to indonesia or thailand but instead got stuck at home or in CVG. So, maybee only 79990 passengers were dissapointed and the other 10 really satisfied they didn't make their flight to Thailand via JFK or wherever......

either way, i'm sure that every IT exec at every airline is already making sure they don't have another Comair on their hand. I wonder how many resume's the CIO at Comair is sending out on Monday? Acutally, I still wonder how long it takes for Butrell to get the axe.
 
I'm not sure this is something that really could have realistically been avoided. Seven days worth of glycol is definitely adequate from a planning standpoint for two days worth of snow, especially with a half-dozen trucks on the way. SBS, while old, gave no indications of a meltdown at 32,768 commands. The paper backup system did go into effect, per FAA approvals, of course there is no way you can take a computer-trained scheduling department that the computer couldn't even run and operate anything significant with paper.

What is impressive to me is that, even with about 25-30 aircraft frozen to the ground in CVG, the rest stuck in outstations, no scheduling system, and crews spread out all over the country where schedulers don't know where they are, Comair is operating at around 15% completion. That's around 175 flights today, and they want to start a full schedule tomorrow. We rag on the schedulers and management, but if you look closely at what events happened, and the total lack of control Comair had over those events (such as weather and computer malfunctions), I'd say they did an outstanding job. Of course the media will point to a complete collapse of management, but I'd argue it was the outstanding policies and personnel in place that accomplished what it did. When other airlines lose their scheduling systems, its usually during normal operations when crew's know their assignments and everything is in automatic anyways. A paper system is not that difficult to implement with only 5-10% irregular operations. But Comair was operating at 95-100% irregular operations, and nobody has had a scheduling system fail in those circumstances. Not to mention your only pilot base could not accept any more aircraft, nor could it dispatch anymore due to the glycol shortage. Nobody could come to work, and nobody could go home, unless they lived somewhere else. A seperate crew base would have aleviated some of this, but where would it be? Delta's changing our schedule so much its dizzying. I'm sure those schedule changes didn't help the SBS situation either.

We can argue that SBS is way outdated and should have been replaced years ago, but from a decision making standpoint (and assumming they had no knowledge of the "32K bug") staying with SBS until they could find a replacement that met all of their requirements was the safe bet. The system was working, and while it needed to be updated, it did work, and until yesterday was a reliable system to Comair. The thought that SBS would explode like that would have been inconceivable only 48 hours ago.

Other airlines are doing the right thing in realizing it very well could have happened to them, and to check their scheduling systems for the same or similar bug.

As for Comair's ability to operate, I think if you'll look closely enough into the events, you'll find that they handled it as well as any other airline could have.
 
Ok Surplus.....I always thought of you as a sort of allie. But, now I have to say your comments have turned me the other way. Nice job bashing your "brothers" at ASA. I'll bet you 1 Billion, zillion dollars that if you moved your entire Comair team from CVG to ATL you would fare NO BETTER. ATL is the worlds busiest airport, not a podunk little airport like CVG!!! BIG DIFFERENCE! How many more flights are operated out of ATL than CVG???? Nice of you to take a shot at ASA, though. Sorry we are the "joke of the entire aviation industry!" Sorry we are such a "mess".

Now I do get it....Comair is THE BEST!!!
 
So how many flights are operating on Tuesday? Are you going to be back to a full schedule?
 
AV8700 said:
Apologies to the few Comair crews that were stuck in Atlanta and turned away from the Christmas dinner. That was embarrasing!
This actually happened? You've got to be kidding! What kind of human being turns his back on another in a time of need?
 
Stifler's Mom said:
Is ATL a poorly run station? You only need to listen to the nonstop bickering on the OPS frequency to make your own decision. How many times do we need to call for fuel, lav dumps, wheelchairs, catering, cleaning, or for the dam n guy in E-Tower to help park us....what did I miss?
That's the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** problem, don't call ops with those requests. Call your departure coordinator. One call. Lookup the delay codes (SP 358) and use them. The problem will not change until those that make the decisions get a bette idea of where the problems are. You are only making matters worse when you make multiple requests for those services. And if you complain about it, you're complaing about something that you are responsible for!
 
Smacktard said:
That's the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** problem, don't call ops with those requests. Call your departure coordinator. One call. Lookup the delay codes (SP 358) and use them. The problem will not change until those that make the decisions get a bette idea of where the problems are. You are only making matters worse when you make multiple requests for those services. And if you complain about it, you're complaing about something that you are responsible for!
I don't call for it, one call to Ops for a Departure Coordinator and that's it. I only explained the above post the way I did for those that are not familiar with our Operation.
 
737 pylot:



Do you live in Miami? I wished (against my better judgement) some Delta loser a Merry X-mas the other day while waiting for my flight home. I got the usual, "You're not a Delta pilot, so, I won't acknowledge your presence." Well, he sure changed his mind when the gate agent told him the flight was full and there wasn't a seat for him. This tool walks over and asks me if I'm on the jumpseat. Before I can answer he proceeds to lecture me on how I need a seat in the back because I can't sit up front. I explained to him that I am sitting in the back and that I'm not listed for the jump. He then gets real pissy with me and tells me how he can't get home because "I" scammed the gate agent into giving me a seat before him, when I clearly don't work for Delta. I let Capt. POS rant and rave a few more minutes until I drop the bomb on him. You should have seen his face when I told him I'm a frac pilot and have a postive space ticket. He huffs and puffs something about being an a#$hole and walks off. When I boarded the flight, I saw him sitting in the corner stewing, so, I flipped him the bird. Merry X-mas you Delta F@gs.
 

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