Comair Crash

[migio]

To ALL:

This thread is about the Comair Accident, not about name calling and flaming people. This is the only warning I will give. If the name calling continues on this thread, I will kick you for good, no questions asked. Please, show some respect for the thread and pax, crews lost. Use the PM feature to vent at eachother, not the public board. When friends and family come to this site to see what has been written, they do not need to read all the BS fighting that goes on here....KNOCK IT OFF

Amen to that.

 

[hagen]

This is a prime example of no matter how much automation there is on board we are all only human after all. Mistakes will happen. Prayers around to all families. I suggest calling a loved one or anyone you care about and telling them so.

 

[sleepy]

NTSB presser at 2200Z, in about 8 minutes.

 

[hotwing]

official data

Sent: Aug 27, 2006 17:42
Subject: Comair info
Status: Preliminary
Date: 27 AUG 2006
Time: 0607 local time
Type:
Canadair CL-600-2B19 (CRJ200ER) Regional Jet: <http://aviation-safety.net/database//database/type/type.php?type=133>
Operator:
Comair/Delta Connection: <http://aviation-safety.net/database//database/operator/airline.php?var=5018>
Registration: N431CA or N435CA
C/n / msn: 7472 or 7473
First flight: 2001
Cycles: 12048
Engines: 2 General Electric CF34-3B1
Crew: Fatalities: 2 / Occupants: 3
Passengers: Fatalities: 47 / Occupants: 47
Total: Fatalities: 49 / Occupants: 50
Airplane damage: Written off
Location: Lexington-Blue Grass Airport, KY (LEX) ( United States of
America: <http://aviation-safety.net/database//database/country/country.php?id=N>
) : <http://aviation-safety.net/database/record_map.php?id=20060827-0>
Phase: Takeoff
Nature: Domestic Scheduled Passenger
Departure airport: Lexington-Blue Grass Airport, KY (LEX / KLEX), United States of America Destination airport: Atlanta-William B. Hartsfield International Airport, GA (ATL / KATL), USA
Flightnumber: 5191
Narrative:
Weather at Lexington (LEX) was fine on the morning of Augst 27 (METAR for 05:54 local: KLEX 270954Z 20007KT 8SM FEW090 SCT120 24/19 A3000) with a small shower approaching from the West.
It was still dark as Comair flight 5191 taxied out for takeoff. Media reports suggest that the crew were cleared for a runway 22 departure, which is Lexington's main runway. However, the aircraft began its takeoff roll on runway 26 which is a smaller 3500 x 75 feet runway. This runway would probably not be long enough for a safe takeoff of a fully-laden CRJ200. The RegionalJet crashed in a hilly, heavily wooded area on a working farm just past the end of the runway.
According to Bombardier, the airplane was delivered to Comair in January 2001, which would make it either N431CA or N435CA (msn 7473).
NASA ASRS records show a possible similar scenario when some 13 years ago a twin engine passenger jet inadvertently taxied into position on runway 26 at LEX while being cleared for an immediate runway 22 takeoff. The tower controller noticed this and cancelled the takeoff clearance. According to the report "Possible contributing factors were poor visibility and wx (rain), confusing rwy intxn and twr's request for an immediate tkof."
In the meantime work had been performed on the runways at LEX. Since October 2003 for instance a runway resurfacing project was started. The project also added 600 feet of safety area at each runway end.
Sources:
Lexington Herald-Leader; LEX18
--------------------------------------------
AIRCRAFT PROFILE CANADAIR REGIONALJET
* Last fatal hull-loss accident: 21 NOV 2004 China Yunnan Airlines B-3072, Baotou, China
- 53fatalities + 1 fatality on the ground
* Total number of CRJ hull-losses: 6 losses 5 of which were fatal accidents
* 2nd worst CRJ accident
* Survival rate for all fatal CRJ accidents: on average 18,2% of all occupants survived fatal accidents
--------------------------------------------
AIRPORT PROFILE LEXINGTON, KY
* ICAO/IATA designators: KLEX / LEX
* Latitude: 38° 02' 11.40" N / 084° 36' 21.20" W
* Elevation: 979 ft/ 300 m
* Runway: 04/22 (2135 x 46 meters, asphalt, ILS)
Runway: 08/26 (1067 x 23 meters, no ILS)

--------------------------
Sent from my BlackBerry Wireless Handheld

 

[32LT10]

Fly safe fellas and God Speed to the crew and passenger of Comair 191.

I know the DL flight number was 5191 but does CMR use 191 for the radio call sign? If so this is the third iteration of that flight number that I can think of that has crashed. DL 191, L1011 at DFW and the AA 191 DC10 at ORD.

 

[AvroJockey]

Show me a pilot who tells you he did everything perfect on a flight from A to B, and I'll show you a liar...

I've always said, "Show me anyone that says they are the perfect pilot, and I will gladly point out their hubris."

We have all made mistakes...human and fallible, we are.

I pray for the family and friends of those lost in today's accident...I pray for a speedy and full recovery for James...I pray for everyone at Comair...I pray for a timely and accurate investigation, so we can learn, correct, and prevent.

May God be with us all!

 

[YourPilotFriend]

Anybody know what the pilots schedules were leading up to the crash?

 

[uba757]

To all my COMAIR brothers and Sisters my deepest sympathies. To the Captain, the Flight Attendant and the Airtran jumpseater, may all 3 of you rest in peace. To the families of all lost today our deepest felt sorrow for the loss of your loved ones. UBA757 AND MY FAMILY.

 

[Midnight Flyer]

You know, it's just so great to hear from people like yourself, and I find myself humbled to be in the presence of someone who never screwed up.




So you're suggesting that the captain INTENTIONALLY tried to take off from a 3,500-foot runway, just for kicks? A part-121-trained, seven years of experience, two and a half years in the left seat, just-for-the-hell-of-it let's try it? At night, with rain, full seats and full fuel? Please tell me this isn't what you mean.

If it is, go **** yourself.

Come on Bill, it dosent take a rocket scientist to realize that the aircraft probably took off on the wrong runway.
Sure, none of us were there so we don't know how things unfolded. However, are you telling us you need to wait until the NTSB decides what really happened before you allow yourself to have an opinion? Don't just be a robot, do a little thinking for yourself.

It's scary how many times in this thread I've heard people commenting with statements such as "havent you ever made a mistake in your aviation carreer" or "I am sure you have never missed a switch/checklist item/frequency" or "have you never almost landed on the wrong runway before" etc, etc. Are comments such as those suggesting that mistakes are ok just because we feel empathy?
When any aircraft crashes after taking off on a runway that is too short is not simply "making a little mistake" Bill. Tuning the wrong frequency is what I would call a little mistake.
Physically steering the aircraft in flight, for me, is the easy part of what we do; taxiing around some of these airports we fly in and out of is the most difficult part of what we do. I can certainly see how easy it is for something like this to happen, but this should not be blown off as just a mistake.

My interpretation of what IFLYABEECH was trying to say about this being a "student pilot" type of mistake was that this is one of the first lessons that are tought to all of us, beginning at the student pilot level, and it's pretty basic. Before you learn how to fly, you need to know how to taxi to the correct runway and be able to figure out if you're too heavy to use a certain runway or not. Pretty simple stuff.

 

[pokeymon]

They took off on 26, confirmed by NTSB.

 

[FR8mastr]

Anybody know what the pilots schedules were leading up to the crash?

I think that will be critical. If it turns out that fatigue is a factor, the faster the press realizes how inadequate the current "rest" standards are the better.

 

[gordon24]

Found this on yahoo when I typed in a search for "Comair Crash"
F'n jerks....

Comair Flight 5191 Accident Attorneys
www.johnsonandbenjamin.com We represent families of those lost or injured in Comair flight 5191 from Lexington to Atlanta.

 

[400A]

400,
Are you forgetting what country we live in and that we as citizens have a right to express ourselves through freedom of speech?
Who made you the moral police? What makes you the expert on judging IFLYABEECH's comments and then deciding if it's the appropriate time for him to voice his opinion as to what happened?
I personally don't believe IFLYABEECH is being insensitive, uncaring nor coldhearted. He has offered his condolences to the passengers, family and crew.
Just because IFLYABEECH voiced an opinion as to what he thinks might have happened dosen't mean he himself has never made a mistake; I don't know where you come up with that asinine line of thinking.

Geeze 400, just get off the guys case and lets keep the arguing and sarcasm out of this thread. Lets focus on respecting the families and victims of this horrific tragedy.

I made my coments because he WAS insensitive and even made sure to judge their experience level as private pilot mistakes. He did not express any condolences untill everyone called him on his crass comments.

While I am not the moral police, I stand by my comments!!!! As you say, I can say anything I want. I choose to be respectfull of those who have been lost. You make your own decisions. If you and Iflyabeech can look at the families and say crap like that in their time of loss, then knock your self out. I hope you never wear their shoes.

 

[B1900 Mech]

http://airliners.net/open.file/0889583/L/ Godspeed,I know how it feels to lose fellow employees,and frend's. I miss Scott and Steve from Colgan 9446. 3 Year's ago this past saturday. I will never forget them.

 

[uba757]

Listen Midnight A$$, cant you just wait a couple of days to drag peoples names through the mud. This just happened this morning. Today we are just mourning the loss of our friends. All people here are asking from you and the BEECH know it all is for you to wait a couple of days to post your high and mighty crap, that's it. UBA757

 

[WSurf]

Found this on yahoo when I typed in a search for "Comair Crash"
F'n jerks....

Comair Flight 5191 Accident Attorneys
www.johnsonandbenjamin.com We represent families of those lost or injured in Comair flight 5191 from Lexington to Atlanta.

Yea, and a friend told me a joke today about these Jerks.... Why are there only 2 Pallbearers for a Lawyers funneral? Because there is only two handles on a trashcan....

Sad, just sad....

 

[stratus72]

Lawyers = Vultures!


God speed to the victims and the families.


Stratus

 

[WSurf]

Anyone know if this was a CDO? They brought the plane in at 10pm and had to get it out this morning!!! Jeez..... So these guys maybe, if lucky....... 6 hours of sleep!!!!!!!!!! bs!!! 8 hour rest is bs, and should be reviewed.

They probably landed at 10pm, hmmm wait for the van and get to the hotel at 10:30 if your lucky. Get in room and shower... 11pm... Finally get to sleep at 11:30..

5am report... hmmm Gotta get up at 4am... So they were lucky to get 4 hours of sleep.... holy crap....

 

[B1900FO]

I feel horrible for everyone involved in this accident, including the crew members. For some unknown reason they took off on the wrong runway. What could have possibly distracted them?

There was also a jumpseater onboard. Was he in the cockpit? If so, did he notice the wrong runway?

Lastly, what do you do when you notice the end of the runway is coming up? Do you throw everything out and ride it off the end or do you try to make it fly?

Too many questions which have no answers and will take sometime to get.

Guys, we're all human. The Captain of the KLM 747 that slammed into the PanAm 747 in Tenerife was supposed to be the best pilot KLM had. If it can, it will happen!

Life's too short!

Forever tailwinds and blue skies for all!

 

[CRJMonkey]

My thoughts and prayers are for the victims and their families.