Comair and Expressjet Pilots Hate RAH?

[hbrow15]

Until mainline employees are willing to take the chance of shutting the company down permanently to get this fixed, it will be a problem.

That will never happen, do you really think a bunch of senior guys that vote for pay cut after paycut to try to save a pension that may very well still be dumped will take such an stand?, I'm sure they feel they have already taken one for the team. At this point it is a case of you cant un-ring the bell.

To see pilots from regionals argue about somebody "stealing" their flying is comical. It was stolen when it was taken from mainline.

Gotta disagree here when this outsourcing first started that flying was given away. All the mainline guys were fat dumb and happy flying the "Big Iron" and wanted no part of those "little Jets". CAL is a perfect example they didn't want the RJ's so they let them to go to Continental Express and they still could have avoided this nightmare and kept the flying under one banner by simply makeing one list and it would have been simple since Express was owned by CAL at the time. So is Eagle stealing flying from American? in my opinion no, they work for the same company, unless you feel the company is stealing from itself. Besides mainline is still giving away flying just look at the deal Us Air just made for E-170's

 

[wmuflyguy]

I ALWAYS look every Comair crew right in the eyes and give them a wave and a hello when I'm in CVG. I also make sure my ID is turned the right way.

If anyone has something to say to us in person....bring it. Otherwise...post it on here and get the sand out of your vagina.

As a comair pilot I agree. All the pilots from chq I have met have been good guys/gals. Some of the CMR guys are so bent out of shape of you guys flying out of Concourse A, because they think you guys stole soemthing.

In reality Comair only flew out of that side of the concourse for short time after ACA turned to Indy air. That concourse was all Do-jets originally and had nothing to do with comair anyway.

 

[Popeye0537]

As I said before, my concern is with pilots losing their jobs at the benefit of another pilot group with a less valuable contract, not just pilot groups losing flying or growth potential. How many CAL pilots are on furlough because we took their flying? How many XJT pilots would be on furlough if you all would have gotten hold of those 69 airplanes? How many UAL and DAL pilots are on furlough while you fly around doing IAD-IAH in that 170?

I whole heartedly agree that all jet flying should be at mainline. I also believe that we should all have a single seniority list and a single pay scale for all aircraft types at all carriers. Bottom line is, it ain't gonna happen.

How many CAL 73's are not in the air because you have 69+ XR's crossing the country? Your argument is flawed, I get the feeling that you are upset because XJT didn't get the flying. Contract to contract XJT has a few more perks....but so did Comair, now look at them. The realization is that CAL wants control of thier feeder. With one single company doing the flying (ie XJT) they have no control and you guys can set your price. XJT is going to go the way Comair has gone...just give it time.

 

[Indy319FA]

That will never happen, do you really think a bunch of senior guys that vote for pay cut after paycut to try to save a pension that may very well still be dumped will take such an stand?, I'm sure they feel they have already taken one for the team. At this point it is a case of you cant un-ring the bell.




Gotta disagree here when this outsourcing first started that flying was given away. All the mainline guys were fat dumb and happy flying the "Big Iron" and wanted no part of those "little Jets". CAL is a perfect example they didn't want the RJ's so they let them to go to Continental Express and they still could have avoided this nightmare and kept the flying under one banner by simply makeing one list and it would have been simple since Express was owned by CAL at the time. So is Eagle stealing flying from American? in my opinion no, they work for the same company, unless you feel the company is stealing from itself. Besides mainline is still giving away flying just look at the deal Us Air just made for E-170's

No real arguments here. That is why I put stealing in quotation marks. I have no sympathy for mainline because their negotiators let this flying get away. They and their managements created the cesspool we are all swimming in, and we are doing the best we can to survive in the environment they created. And no, I don't expect this to change anytime soon. Unfortunately my expectation is this will continue and get worse. I look for the day when all narrowbody flying is outsourced, and these companies will become brand names, nothing more. Until mainline pilots get the balls to stand up and fix this it will not get better. We at the regional level have no power to fix it.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

To follow your logic, how many more pilots would Continental be hiring if you weren't taking their flying?

Did you not read the statement that have I made twice already? I'll try once more.

You're talking about losing growth potential...I'm talking about people losing jobs. CAL pilots may have lost growth potential over our flying, but they haven't lost their jobs over it. If you can't see the difference there, then I'm afraid you're too far lost for me to bother arguiing over it anymore.

 

[Indy319FA]

In reality Comair only flew out of that side of the concourse for short time after ACA turned to Indy air. That concourse was all Do-jets originally and had nothing to do with comair anyway.

Is Panda Express still there by the old ACA crew room...........

I misses me some Panda Express

 

[Indy319FA]

Did you not read the statement that have I made twice already? I'll try once more.

You're talking about losing growth potential...I'm talking about people losing jobs. If you can't see the difference there, then I'm afraid you're too far lost for me to bother arguiing over it anymore.

So you are saying that if Expressjet gets a contract for flying with AA, DL, NW, or UA you will refuse to work there since they both have pilots on furlough then?

 

[hbrow15]

How many CAL 73's are not in the air because you have 69+ XR's crossing the country?

probably quite a few since they just ordered 24 more 737's. But dont forget those 100XR's that you speak of where CALS XR's before the sold Continental Express and it became XJT"

I get the feeling that you are upset because XJT didn't get the flying.

If your refering to the flying we lost to CHQ, no argument there I'm upset, I want whatever company I work for to be as successful as possible as I'm sure you feel the same about yours. Loseing work kinda works against that goal.

XJT is going to go the way Comair has gone...just give it time.

That could be true but that is the problem of someone that makes a hell of alot more money than I do. I just drive the bus, I can find something else to do to pay the bills. I might not like it as much as flying but I wont be homeless either. 1.4 Billion in debt if someone ever can get some of the work you have we both may need the number to that truck driveing school, Truck master I think it is....

 

[007]

The realization is that CAL wants control of thier feeder.

I seem to remember a time 3-4 yrs ago when XJT did not exist and Continental Express was a wholly owned subsidiary constructed out of 3 commuters that worked for CAL. They formed us in their image. S/it, even our profiles are the same.

So when you say we didn't get screwed by CAL so they could fund their pensions while we go down the drain, think again.

Unless we find other work for the 69, we're on the slow road to closing the doors. CAL is just gonna keep decreasing our amount of flying. What I don't understand is why some of you guys are happy about seeing a regional with a good contract going down drain. Are you guys really that shortsighted.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

So you are saying that if Expressjet gets a contract for flying with AA or UA you will refuse to work there since they both have pilots on furlough then?

Nope, for the same reason that I don't expect for you to refuse to fly a 170 route for UAL, its not a reasonable request. I just hope that you all will put some real effort into bettering your next contract, specifically your 70 seat rates.

 

[wmuflyguy]

Is Panda Express still there by the old ACA crew room...........

I misses me some Panda Express

Still there serving up "orange flavored chicken"

 

[Indy319FA]

Unless we find other work for the 69, we're on the slow road to closing the doors. CAL is just gonna keep decreasing our amount of flying. What I don't understand is why some of you guys are happy about seeing a regional with a good contract going down drain. Are you guys really that shortsighted

No joy here. I just went through this with ACA/Indy and I do not wish that experience on anyone. I'd love to see you guys strike out on your own and make it, but the odds are against it. Unfortunately it appears that anytime a regional gets a decent contract with decent pay, they will be undercut by another company with cut rate wages. This cycle will continue to repeat itself until it is fixed by putting all of this flying back to mainline where it belongs, or some of these companies make successful ventures on their own.

 

[Indy319FA]

I just hope that you all will put some real effort into bettering your next contract, specifically your 70 seat rates.

I hope we negotiate better contracts for both the pilots and FAs. Unfortunately if present trends continue, we will then lose all of our work to somebody else.........

 

[Fly2Scuba]

No comparison

It's a bad comparison to make when you group together the better times of the late 90s with what's going on now. None of the majors had furloughs back in the day and the concept of "regionals" flying mainline routes was in it's infancy. Now, the cards are on the table and you can't be so naive to pretend the "regionals" are just a stepping stone to a better job at a so called major when you are already flying mainline size aircraft for inadequate pay and BENEFITS. I have no hard feelings towards the Chataqua pilots who aren't happy with the state of their larger aircraft pay/benefits nd the degredation of the airline pilot profession. The other yahoos on here are another story; the unethical short-sighted slimeballs happy to upgrade as fast as possible without doing their part to ensure long-hall intergrity of the profession.

 

[007]

It's a bad comparison to make when you group together the better times of the late 90s with what's going on now. None of the majors had furloughs back in the day and the concept of "regionals" flying mainline routes was in it's infancy. Now, the cards are on the table and you can't be so naive to pretend the "regionals" are just a stepping stone to a better job at a so called major when you are already flying mainline size aircraft for inadequate pay and BENEFITS. I have no hard feelings towards the Chataqua pilots who aren't happy with the state of their larger aircraft pay/benefits nd the degredation of the airline pilot profession. The other yahoos on here are another story; the unethical short-sighted slimeballs happy to upgrade as fast as possible without doing their part to ensure long-hall intergrity of the profession.

Excellent, Smithers.

 

[Booker]

two subs from Quiznos then proceed to sit down at gate A6 untuck his shirt and eat not one but both of them

Well, what kind of length are we talking about here? I mean, two smalls are a little different than two larges. Whatever; I just call ahead to Subway and have a party sub waiting for me, and my Van Heusen Circus Tent precludes the pesky need to un-tuck.

Carry on.

 

[SBD]

We all need to get in a cage and just go at each other. The last regional standing wins. That would probably solve the problem there. All this talk about less pay v.s. stealing flying v.s 90 seat a/c for 50 seat pay will continue until who knows when. Everyone has an idea of what to do but until we all can get on the same page it will never happen. Comair against RAH who is against XJT who is against Mesa doesn't mean crap. Who is against these greedy management bastards?

 

[BlueCanoe]

Nope, for the same reason that I don't expect for you to refuse to fly a 170 route for UAL, its not a reasonable request. I just hope that you all will put some real effort into bettering your next contract, specifically your 70 seat rates.

I'm sorry you're stupid. I know you've been at XJT for, like, 8 mos. or something (start studying, that first recurrent is coming up!!), and you have the entire industry figured out. I'd like to help you a bit since you obviously know nothing about CHQ. I know I'm wasting my breath because, like most mouthy F/O's on this board, any discussion that varies from your line of thought will glance of your cerebrum. This contract we have as of today, had certain goals, in this order: 1) Non-concessionary (accomplished, first post-9/11 and first one after Mesa's "contract", which was an improvement for THEM) 2) ONE-LIST scope (very costly for the stuff idiots badger us about, accomplished. And we all know NO contract is worth anything if you can be whipsawed) 3) 50 seat pay (brought up to industry standard)

Now we all know that there are things that need improved. There's no arguing that. Our contract opens in OCT 07. Here's the goals: Maintaining SCOPE, E-Jet Pay (170/175/190/195)- which will be tough because most of us on the US175 will be making more than LCC pilots on the 190, and of course upgrading benefits and what not.

If I seem patronizing, it's because I am. Mouthy idiots like yourself are like the local drunks. Just running your mouths like you are a frickin' walking encyclopedia, without having any knowledge to back up your statements. Do some research, and quit parroting what others say. You should just put quotes around everything you write, because it's already been said in another thread. The interesting thing is, I keep reading this drivel and actually think I might get through to people. I can't believe I'm an optomist (is this an oxymoronic statement?)

I'm glad you have a hard-on cause you work for XJET. It's great to take pride in your work and the company that feeds your family. Just do yourself a favor, walk a mile in someone else's shoes. You guys aren't losing any airplanes from all the information available. Who cares what the outside is painted like? The inside will still be that blueish-grey that our Brazillianaires paint the cockpit. All you should care about is your paycheck doesn't bounce, you still have a job and you are not losing any planes.

 

[BoilerUP]

in the interest of accuracy

E-Jet Pay (170/175/190/195)- which will be tough because most of us on the US175 will be making more than LCC pilots on the 190

This is not a flame...but how can you honestly make that statement?

10 year CA at LCC (tops) is around $95 and RAH is $88.37 at year 10 starting October of this year. 6th year CA at LCC is around $88 and RAH is $78.22. FO hourly rates aren't even close. RAH 175 CA pay doesn't go over $95/hr until year 13, and there are fewer than 25 people on the RAH seniority list with 12 years or more longevity.

First year FO pay at LCC is around $41 while RAH is $22.50 and year three is around $46 vs. $34.

 

[OldManPilot]

I seem to remember a time 3-4 yrs ago when XJT did not exist and Continental Express was a wholly owned subsidiary constructed out of 3 commuters that worked for CAL. They formed us in their image. S/it, even our profiles are the same.

So when you say we didn't get screwed by CAL so they could fund their pensions while we go down the drain, think again.

Unless we find other work for the 69, we're on the slow road to closing the doors. CAL is just gonna keep decreasing our amount of flying. What I don't understand is why some of you guys are happy about seeing a regional with a good contract going down drain. Are you guys really that shortsighted.

As a CHQ Captain I take no joy in seeing another airline lose pilots or flying however, it will be and always has been a business driven by costs. CHQ has a business model that allows it to operate at a lower cost, thus we are able to bid for flying at a lower rate in some cases.

Just take a look at the industry. Southwest is growing due to their cost structure and business model. They are able to deliver the same product at a lower price. CHQ has built their flying in the exact same manor. I hope you are not naive enough to think that this business plan and cost structure is solely driven by Pilot pay rate. CHQ has and continues to look for better ways to save money yet not jeapordize its safety. This has given us a small head start in what is now happening in the regional side as well as mainline companies.

I can certainly understand your anger over the loss of flying, yet to bury your head in the sand and just lay blame on others for your losses is both foolish and naive.

There are many ways that we need to continue to improve, both corporate wise and Pilot wise. We will soon be entering negotiations to do just that. We will continue to better our C.B.A in an effort to improve quality of life and compensation.

My best wishes go forward to all my fellow regional pilots. In the tough environment that we currently all see ourselves in I hope we can work together to strengthen what seems to be a growing trend, continued growth on the regional size aircraft . We cannot control what is given to us for flying; however, we can control the way we treat each other and how we work together to close the gap between ourselves and mainline pilots in both pay and quality of life issues.

Showing hatred does nothing but weaken our regional airline industry. It shows immaturity and weakness. Try to rise above this thinking. As I have stated before, if you must be angry at anyone for the reduction in mainline flying, get angry and who caused it, mainline pilots.