Comair and Expressjet Pilots Hate RAH?

[Uncle Bunkle]

If my badge is turned around you will see my NOGOJETS badge,

Now where can I get me one of those? Seriously, I'll wear one too.

 

[007]

Wow I sure hope the Shi**y Kitty buys Clownair. Can you imagine how much fun we will all have!!

Actually the latest rumor is that CHQ is buying XJT.

 

[Indy319FA]

I seem to remember a lot of Comair and Expressjet guys being called scabs and worse by mainline during their PFT days. I'm sure the DL and CO guys are getting a kick out of watching Comair and Expressjet guys accuse others of "stealing" their flying. The sooner you realize we are all expendable hired guns the better. The solution for this is for all of the flying to be flown by mainline crews, which will get rid of the whipsaw we see now. Not saying this has a snowballs chance in hell of happening, as that horse left the barn a long time ago.

If Republic buys Comair this will really get interesting. Wonder how many of the Comair guys will walk rather than work for such a substandard airline?

 

[The Drizzle]

Wonder how many of the Comair guys will walk rather than work for such a substandard airline?

Decisions like that are made at the dinner table, a la MidAtlantic. Not a flame, a fact.

 

[pilotmyf]

Now where can I get me one of those? Seriously, I'll wear one too.

Yeah Yeah boss, can i wear one too, no really boss can I wear one too

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Ah Come on...If it were only that easy.

It is that easy, chief. I mean, if you're going to get reassigned (which I never have), its probably just going to be an extra turn and you're going to get junior man pay for it, so most people would probably jump on it anyway. As far as getting junior manned on your day off, there are so many ways to prevent that from happening its not even funny. Primarily just don't answer the dammed phone. Whether we have junior manning at XJT or not is really not a big deal since it happens so rarely and when it does, we are compensated well for it and have our days off restored if need be.

The hot items for me are vacations and 100% deadhead pay at block or better. These are things that add significant value to our contract. There's nothing like sleeping in the back of a 767 sitting on the taxiways in EWR and getting paid for every minute of it.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I seem to remember a lot of Comair and Expressjet guys being called scabs and worse by mainline during their PFT days.

You mean back in the day before XJT existed when there were nothing but props and a couple of jets on property while PFT was an accepted practice at almost every "commuter" airline in existance? Why would mainline care about guys paying to get a job flying an E120 around from EWR to ACK?

 

[Whiskerbizkit]

I have not and will not EVER lower my head. I don't care who is walking by. I have never met a CHQ pilot who has or would do this either. If my badge is turned around you will see my NOGOJETS badge, and when that $1500 check comes in December I won't think of you. Go flame on some other board

And when I get my $6000 profit share check, and that $7000 for retirement, or that W2 at the end of there year, or that 60 days of vacation fully paid I wont think of you either.

 

[SennaP1]

It is that easy, chief.

Thanks Tanto, but I know all about junior-manning and how to avoid it, thanks to a previous employer. I was just commenting on your lame, cracklin' radio excuse.

Good luck to you guys. Seriously, I hope we all come out of this on top.

 

[ATRCA]

How is that JR manning going for you??

I have not been Jr manned since this contract was signed, however, there are times when that would be fine with me. They must pay me 150%, provide positive space travel and restore my day. Nothing wrong with any of that. You guys are hung up on this whole jr man thing like its an extra $5 bucks an hour or something. Did RAH jr man that much before you guys signed that this provision is so important to you? It's not a problem for us.

 

[ATRCA]

I have not and will not EVER lower my head. I don't care who is walking by. I have never met a CHQ pilot who has or would do this either. If my badge is turned around you will see my NOGOJETS badge, and when that $1500 check comes in December I won't think of you. Go flame on some other board

Well the Christmas bonus thing is certainly a nice touch, and us XJT folks get something similar I quess, my profit sharing ckeck this year was a bit over 3 grand. There is alot more to this thing than pay rates. But anyway good luck to all, remember, fee for departure flying is a loser in the long run. We should all be looking for the exit. RAH's days on top will be numbered. That is how this side of our industry works. Not slaming anyone, that's just the facts of life in the little airplane business.

 

[ATRCA]

I honestly know that we cancelled 82 flights the second Friday in June for lack of crews. I didn't have to worry about being extended into my day off.

Must suck having to worry about hearing "Call crew scheduling" over Ops.

When I set the brake....I'm done.

Seriously, that poor of a completion factor WILL cause issues with CAL, I promise. I'm sure your mgt team will be looking to improve such an important metric in this business, not to mention that "fee for departure" means just that. No departure, no fee. Adios

 

[hbrow15]

Do you think United/AA/NWA/DAL/U guys are over on the Majors board, telling a story about how they saw a JetBlue/Spirit/SWA/..etc.. guy at Subway that had to eat 2 subs and his shirt was untucked.

What has this become?

no probably not, they usually complain about Jetblue bringing the industry down with thier pay rates and being non-union, then the Jutblue guys will talk about how they are denied the jumpseat..... sounds kinda familar I guess pilots are pilots no matter what

 

[marcal]

I've read all of the thread and I have this too say....

I was not at CHQ during the last negotiations but I'm glad that I'm here now.
I may not have 100% DH pay but I'll take 75% at captain pay over 100% at FO pay. Is it short sighted? Yes. But I'm smart enough to see that this sector in the industry is completely f*cked. I got my quick upgrade and I'm gonna die trying to get the hell out. If I can't oh well, its better than being an FO for 6 years at some sh*t regional(they all are) with my 'pride'.

Flame away bitches

 

[SkyBoy1981]

I've read all of the thread and I have this too say....

I was not at CHQ during the last negotiations but I'm glad that I'm here now.
I may not have 100% DH pay but I'll take 75% at captain pay over 100% at FO pay. Is it short sighted? Yes. But I'm smart enough to see that this sector in the industry is completely f*cked. I got my quick upgrade and I'm gonna die trying to get the hell out. If I can't oh well, its better than being an FO for 6 years at some sh*t regional(they all are) with my 'pride'.

Flame away bitches

XJT upgrades are currently more junior than at CHQ (7/2004 DOH). Sure, it could and most likely will increase...but so could yours.

 

[Indy319FA]

You mean back in the day before XJT existed when there were nothing but props and a couple of jets on property while PFT was an accepted practice at almost every "commuter" airline in existance?

Actually there were plenty of companies in the 90s that were non PFT. Comair and Co Ex were the exception and PFT was not the rule.

Why would mainline care about guys paying to get a job flying an E120 around from EWR to ACK

If they had cared, we would not be in the position of seeing more and more mainline jobs outsourced to other companies. Until mainline employees force their unions to demand that if the aircraft says Continental on the side of it (not picking on CO, just using them for an example), then it has a Continental mainline crew, then none of this will get better. Until mainline employees are willing to take the chance of shutting the company down permanently to get this fixed, it will be a problem. I don't care if its a 172 or a 777. If it says Continental, then the crew should work for Continental and be on their seniority list. When these concessionary contracts come up for renegotiation, the reps should demand the integration of all flying outsourced to other companies. If this is not done, then the rest of the contract is meaningless because managment will continue to find ways to outsource. The one positive thing you can say about Republic is we have been able to keep all of our flying on one Seniority list to keep BB from whipsawing us against each other.


To see pilots from regionals argue about somebody "stealing" their flying is comical. It was stolen when it was taken from mainline.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

Actually there were plenty of companies in the 90s that were non PFT. Comair and Co Ex were the exception and PFT was not the rule.

ASA and quite a few others had PFT programs in the late 90's. It certainly was not limited to Comair and CoEx. Also, we're talking about $8000 for the cost of training to become a full time pilot with the strong possibility of a 6 month upgrade, not $30k for 250 hours in the right seat like exists with PFT outfits today. I'm not advocating it, but there is quite a difference.

If they had cared, we would not be in the position of seeing more and more mainline jobs outsourced to other companies.

I agree completely, but you implied in your original post that mainline pilots were concerned enough about the turboprop flying PFTers that they were calling them "scabs". Maybe I'm wrong, but I highly doubt that was the case.

To see pilots from regionals argue about somebody "stealing" their flying is comical. It was stolen when it was taken from mainline.

Its not about the flying as much with me as it is taking jobs away from other pilots. When one company with a more valuable contract has to lay off pilots because another company with cheaper labor costs comes in and takes the work away from them, then yes, its a problem. You would have to be blind not to see that. I realize that the same thing has been done in some cases to mainline pilots, and no, that isn't right either. I don't work for a company that is flying mini 737's around on former legacy routes for a legacy carrier that has pilots on furlough though. That would be you.

 

[Indy319FA]

I realize that the same thing has been done in some cases to mainline pilots, and no, that isn't right either. I don't work for a company that is flying mini 737's around on former legacy routes for a legacy carrier that has pilots on furlough though. That would be you.

No you're flying for a company that is flying ERJ 145 LRs on routes that should be flown by mainline aircraft. Its apples and oranges. If you are flying a jet for a regional carrier, then you are "stealing" flying from mainline. If its a 145, CRJ, or 170 it makes no difference. You're trying to make yourself feel better by denying the fact that you have stolen flying from somebody else. Two regional pilots getting into an argument over who is stealing flying is silly, and until all the flying gets back to mainline where it belongs, you will continue to see flying shifted around to different companies to keep them bidding against each other. If the current trends continue, in ten years or so there will be no more mainline, just a brand name with a bunch of contractors constantly bidding against each other for the flying.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

No you're flying for a company that is flying ERJ 145 LRs on routes that should be flown by mainline aircraft. Its apples and oranges. If you are flying a jet for a regional carrier, then you are "stealing" flying from mainline. If its a 145, CRJ, or 170 it makes no difference. You're trying to make yourself feel better by denying the fact that you have stolen flying from somebody else. Two regional pilots getting into an argument over who is stealing flying is silly, and until all the flying gets back to mainline where it belongs, you will continue to see flying shifted around to different companies to keep them bidding against each other. If the current trends continue, in ten years or so there will be no more mainline, just a brand name with a bunch of contractors constantly bidding against each other for the flying.

As I said before, my concern is with pilots losing their jobs at the benefit of another pilot group with a less valuable contract, not just pilot groups losing flying or growth potential. How many CAL pilots are on furlough because we took their flying? How many XJT pilots would be on furlough if you all would have gotten hold of those 69 airplanes? How many UAL and DAL pilots are on furlough while you fly around doing IAD-IAH in that 170?

I whole heartedly agree that all jet flying should be at mainline. I also believe that we should all have a single seniority list and a single pay scale for all aircraft types at all carriers. Bottom line is, it ain't gonna happen.

 

[Indy319FA]

How many CAL pilots are on furlough because we took their flying?

To follow your logic, how many more pilots would Continental be hiring if you weren't taking their flying?

 

[hbrow15]

Until mainline employees are willing to take the chance of shutting the company down permanently to get this fixed, it will be a problem.

That will never happen, do you really think a bunch of senior guys that vote for pay cut after paycut to try to save a pension that may very well still be dumped will take such an stand?, I'm sure they feel they have already taken one for the team. At this point it is a case of you cant un-ring the bell.

To see pilots from regionals argue about somebody "stealing" their flying is comical. It was stolen when it was taken from mainline.

Gotta disagree here when this outsourcing first started that flying was given away. All the mainline guys were fat dumb and happy flying the "Big Iron" and wanted no part of those "little Jets". CAL is a perfect example they didn't want the RJ's so they let them to go to Continental Express and they still could have avoided this nightmare and kept the flying under one banner by simply makeing one list and it would have been simple since Express was owned by CAL at the time. So is Eagle stealing flying from American? in my opinion no, they work for the same company, unless you feel the company is stealing from itself. Besides mainline is still giving away flying just look at the deal Us Air just made for E-170's

 

[wmuflyguy]

I ALWAYS look every Comair crew right in the eyes and give them a wave and a hello when I'm in CVG. I also make sure my ID is turned the right way.

If anyone has something to say to us in person....bring it. Otherwise...post it on here and get the sand out of your vagina.

As a comair pilot I agree. All the pilots from chq I have met have been good guys/gals. Some of the CMR guys are so bent out of shape of you guys flying out of Concourse A, because they think you guys stole soemthing.

In reality Comair only flew out of that side of the concourse for short time after ACA turned to Indy air. That concourse was all Do-jets originally and had nothing to do with comair anyway.

 

[Popeye0537]

As I said before, my concern is with pilots losing their jobs at the benefit of another pilot group with a less valuable contract, not just pilot groups losing flying or growth potential. How many CAL pilots are on furlough because we took their flying? How many XJT pilots would be on furlough if you all would have gotten hold of those 69 airplanes? How many UAL and DAL pilots are on furlough while you fly around doing IAD-IAH in that 170?

I whole heartedly agree that all jet flying should be at mainline. I also believe that we should all have a single seniority list and a single pay scale for all aircraft types at all carriers. Bottom line is, it ain't gonna happen.

How many CAL 73's are not in the air because you have 69+ XR's crossing the country? Your argument is flawed, I get the feeling that you are upset because XJT didn't get the flying. Contract to contract XJT has a few more perks....but so did Comair, now look at them. The realization is that CAL wants control of thier feeder. With one single company doing the flying (ie XJT) they have no control and you guys can set your price. XJT is going to go the way Comair has gone...just give it time.

 

[Indy319FA]

That will never happen, do you really think a bunch of senior guys that vote for pay cut after paycut to try to save a pension that may very well still be dumped will take such an stand?, I'm sure they feel they have already taken one for the team. At this point it is a case of you cant un-ring the bell.




Gotta disagree here when this outsourcing first started that flying was given away. All the mainline guys were fat dumb and happy flying the "Big Iron" and wanted no part of those "little Jets". CAL is a perfect example they didn't want the RJ's so they let them to go to Continental Express and they still could have avoided this nightmare and kept the flying under one banner by simply makeing one list and it would have been simple since Express was owned by CAL at the time. So is Eagle stealing flying from American? in my opinion no, they work for the same company, unless you feel the company is stealing from itself. Besides mainline is still giving away flying just look at the deal Us Air just made for E-170's

No real arguments here. That is why I put stealing in quotation marks. I have no sympathy for mainline because their negotiators let this flying get away. They and their managements created the cesspool we are all swimming in, and we are doing the best we can to survive in the environment they created. And no, I don't expect this to change anytime soon. Unfortunately my expectation is this will continue and get worse. I look for the day when all narrowbody flying is outsourced, and these companies will become brand names, nothing more. Until mainline pilots get the balls to stand up and fix this it will not get better. We at the regional level have no power to fix it.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

To follow your logic, how many more pilots would Continental be hiring if you weren't taking their flying?

Did you not read the statement that have I made twice already? I'll try once more.

You're talking about losing growth potential...I'm talking about people losing jobs. CAL pilots may have lost growth potential over our flying, but they haven't lost their jobs over it. If you can't see the difference there, then I'm afraid you're too far lost for me to bother arguiing over it anymore.

 

[Indy319FA]

In reality Comair only flew out of that side of the concourse for short time after ACA turned to Indy air. That concourse was all Do-jets originally and had nothing to do with comair anyway.

Is Panda Express still there by the old ACA crew room...........

I misses me some Panda Express

 

[Indy319FA]

Did you not read the statement that have I made twice already? I'll try once more.

You're talking about losing growth potential...I'm talking about people losing jobs. If you can't see the difference there, then I'm afraid you're too far lost for me to bother arguiing over it anymore.

So you are saying that if Expressjet gets a contract for flying with AA, DL, NW, or UA you will refuse to work there since they both have pilots on furlough then?

 

[hbrow15]

How many CAL 73's are not in the air because you have 69+ XR's crossing the country?

probably quite a few since they just ordered 24 more 737's. But dont forget those 100XR's that you speak of where CALS XR's before the sold Continental Express and it became XJT"

I get the feeling that you are upset because XJT didn't get the flying.

If your refering to the flying we lost to CHQ, no argument there I'm upset, I want whatever company I work for to be as successful as possible as I'm sure you feel the same about yours. Loseing work kinda works against that goal.

XJT is going to go the way Comair has gone...just give it time.

That could be true but that is the problem of someone that makes a hell of alot more money than I do. I just drive the bus, I can find something else to do to pay the bills. I might not like it as much as flying but I wont be homeless either. 1.4 Billion in debt if someone ever can get some of the work you have we both may need the number to that truck driveing school, Truck master I think it is....

 

[007]

The realization is that CAL wants control of thier feeder.

I seem to remember a time 3-4 yrs ago when XJT did not exist and Continental Express was a wholly owned subsidiary constructed out of 3 commuters that worked for CAL. They formed us in their image. S/it, even our profiles are the same.

So when you say we didn't get screwed by CAL so they could fund their pensions while we go down the drain, think again.

Unless we find other work for the 69, we're on the slow road to closing the doors. CAL is just gonna keep decreasing our amount of flying. What I don't understand is why some of you guys are happy about seeing a regional with a good contract going down drain. Are you guys really that shortsighted.

 

[SkyBoy1981]

So you are saying that if Expressjet gets a contract for flying with AA or UA you will refuse to work there since they both have pilots on furlough then?

Nope, for the same reason that I don't expect for you to refuse to fly a 170 route for UAL, its not a reasonable request. I just hope that you all will put some real effort into bettering your next contract, specifically your 70 seat rates.