Colgan new aircrafts

[pinn82]

What else is new Pinnacle PEOPLE get screwed buy management. This will be interesting to see what ALPA decides to do about this. Atleast Phil should be making some money being they just got their stock options a month ago.

 

[Lear70]

Rich,

What really suprised me somewhat, was the arrogance of Nonconnah in announcing in the Memphis Business Journal that Pinnacle purchased the aircraft...to be flown by Colgan...etc....everything was Pinnacle. They are so emboldened that they aren't trying to skirt around scope. Just as Hunt said to AV week. They are unconcerned about pilot agreements. If I were them I would have downplayed the issue and led everyone to believe that Colgan had purchased the aircraft. Their ego's are just too big for that.

We all saw this one coming. The deliveries start in December, plenty of time for whatever legal proceedings to go forward. I do not understand the reluctance of the Colgan pilots to combine. They have far more to gain even now.... than standing alone. There has been an announcement of a conference call on Friday. I plan to push the executive team some questions about Q400 pay and the likelyhood that they will hire off the street captains at Colgan to staff the expansion.....I bet the questions won't be answered politely ........

Heh heh... NONE too politely, I'm sure you're right.

I guess the arrogance doesn't really surprise me. While testifying on a pilot's behalf in Federal Court against the company, I got to see first-hand how little Pinnacle Management thinks of pilots and of contracts in general.

The company doesn't have anything to lose either way. The legal team is already paid for. The law suit will have time to make it to court BEFORE they begin operating the aircraft so, if they lose, there are no damages to pay; they simply shift the flying back to PCL pilots and combine the two operations. Worst-case scenario for Nonconnah.

If they win, they get to grow with other business as-planned, all with Colgan pilots, Street Captains as well, all while leaving PCL pilots to fester under pressure to sign a new T.A. to enjoy any growth.

Colgan pilots will certainly get a better pay rate for this new aircraft (albeit still well under industry standard), and they all become Captains as quickly as the aircraft come on property, so Nonconnah is betting they won't organize for years to come.

Eventually, the NWA contract will expire, the CRJ's will start to go away, and PCL will be shrunk just like it was 10 years ago. History will repeat itself.

It's a win-win, either way, for management, from a purely money-generation standpoint. That's why it was so easy to see coming.

Good luck to all my PCL friends; it's going to be a rough battle, emotionally as well. Hope you get a judge who actually believes in justice and honoring contracts as they were intended at Date Of Signing.

 

[Flyer1015]

My version of the MasterCard commercial for Pinnacle Holdings.


Buying Colgan Air.... $20 million dollars

Selling a note gain money to buy Q400s..... $283 million dollars

Telling Pinnacle pilots that their ALPA proposal contract (only 50 million dollars more over its four year duration) is TOO EXPENSIVE.... PRICELESS!


There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's PT and his cronies at Nonconnah Blvd.

 

[redflyer65]

n32,

Your right. I think it's amazing how silly the PCL management has been in dealing with this pilot contract issue. They just keep on making announcements about all the other issues that will bring in more money. How do you come to the table NOW and say we are broke? The industry just keeps getting better, and management just keeps sticking their head in the sand.

They would have done SOOO much better if they would have pushed harder for a agreement earlier before all this stuff has hit the press. If I were in a management position, I would want to negotiate before all the good news comes out. Are these guys really that whack?

 

[CA1900]

Continental has purchased the CAPACITY, and the capacity ONLY. ...

What that means is that Continental has purchased the rights to place whoever THEY want in those seats, no one else can sell tickets for them.

As a nice little side bonus, it means that a non-revving Continental pilot will bump a non-rev Colgan/Pinnacle pilot off of his own airplane, because he'll have a higher non-rev priority on this now-Continental-controlled flight.

CommutAir gets to enjoy that little detail on its CLE flights now, and some of their pilots have missed commutes because of it.

Nice, eh?

 

[redflyer65]

You're right. They will be "Doing the Pinnacle" pretty soon.Wanna ride? Sorry, its not your seat.

 

[indianboy7]

n32,

Your right. I think it's amazing how silly the PCL management has been in dealing with this pilot contract issue. They just keep on making announcements about all the other issues that will bring in more money. How do you come to the table NOW and say we are broke? The industry just keeps getting better, and management just keeps sticking their head in the sand.

They would have done SOOO much better if they would have pushed harder for a agreement earlier before all this stuff has hit the press. If I were in a management position, I would want to negotiate before all the good news comes out. Are these guys really that whack?

The management clowns are solely there to impress the shareholders.......new airplanes and more revenue impresses the shareholders=more outside investment=more money for management. Giving the pilots more money does not impress the shareholders and won't get the same increase in investment. Management follows the bigger carrot...end of story.....

 

[Ezralite]

aircraft singular=aircraft
aircraft plural=aircraft
--as in--
deer singular=deer
deer plural=deer
--not like--
beer singular=beer
beers plural=beers

Just a note.

Shy

How many new airplane be it?

 

[Ridgeback]

Question? Are those 9E guys complaining on this web board the same guys that walked through DTW and MSP with a smile on their face as they replace Mesaba's flying with their fancy new CRJ's. Are these also the same 9e guys that while Mesaba pilots were fighting for their jobs just a few months ago couldn't get anything in writting from the 9E ALPA union that they would not fly struck work...even the NWA pilots publicly came out in support for Mesaba. Are these the same 9E guys that wouldn't take a Mesaba pilot with the same deal Mesaba gave 9E pilots back in the late 90's...yes you know what I'm talking about.
Now your whinning and crying because you feel your getting screwed by Colgan pilots. TOO BAD you've been doing it for years to the Mesaba Pilots now you get to enjoy yours.
Also how do you think NWA will respond to this. NWA has always wanted 100% control of their feed. Do you think your still getting those 17 CRJ with no pilot contract and now this.
I would be very concerned with how NWA responds to this...especially since they now own 100% of Mesaba and Compass will get off the ground.

Perhaps the pilots of 9E will see first hand what it's like too how bad it really can get.

Sorry guys but you deserve it.

 

[Flyer1015]

Question? Are those 9E guys complaining on this web board the same guys that walked through DTW and MSP with a smile on their face as they replace Mesaba's flying with their fancy new CRJ's. Are these also the same 9e guys that while Mesaba pilots were fighting for their jobs just a few months ago couldn't get anything in writting from the 9E ALPA union that they would not fly struck work...even the NWA pilots publicly came out in support for Mesaba. Are these the same 9E guys that wouldn't take a Mesaba pilot with the same deal Mesaba gave 9E pilots back in the late 90's...yes you know what I'm talking about.
Now your whinning and crying because you feel your getting screwed by Colgan pilots. TOO BAD you've been doing it for years to the Mesaba Pilots now you get to enjoy yours.
Also how do you think NWA will respond to this. NWA has always wanted 100% control of their feed. Do you think your still getting those 17 CRJ with no pilot contract and now this.
I would be very concerned with how NWA responds to this...especially since they now own 100% of Mesaba and Compass will get off the ground.

Perhaps the pilots of 9E will see first hand what it's like too how bad it really can get.

Sorry guys but you deserve it.

Wow.

Just, wow.

 

[n32jk]

Question? Are those 9E guys complaining on this web board the same guys that walked through DTW and MSP with a smile on their face as they replace Mesaba's flying with their fancy new CRJ's. Are these also the same 9e guys that while Mesaba pilots were fighting for their jobs just a few months ago couldn't get anything in writting from the 9E ALPA union that they would not fly struck work...even the NWA pilots publicly came out in support for Mesaba. Are these the same 9E guys that wouldn't take a Mesaba pilot with the same deal Mesaba gave 9E pilots back in the late 90's...yes you know what I'm talking about.
Now your whinning and crying because you feel your getting screwed by Colgan pilots. TOO BAD you've been doing it for years to the Mesaba Pilots now you get to enjoy yours.
Also how do you think NWA will respond to this. NWA has always wanted 100% control of their feed. Do you think your still getting those 17 CRJ with no pilot contract and now this.
I would be very concerned with how NWA responds to this...especially since they now own 100% of Mesaba and Compass will get off the ground.

Perhaps the pilots of 9E will see first hand what it's like too how bad it really can get.

Sorry guys but you deserve it.

Ridgeback,


You have absolutely no foundations of what you rant about. Your facts are just plain wrong. We are talking scope issues here. As for those 17 RJ's they are already here. And yes, they will probably go away at a rate of 3 per month cause there won't be a contract in time. Just as PCL and NW planned. BTW PT and bunch still get paid the profit of operations of those aircraft even when they go.....Sweet deal for management. As far as taking Mesaba flying, Bryan Bedford set the hub duality in motion when he talked NW into giving all Avro flying to Mesaba. The avros came to Memphis and all bets were off. Corporate greed at it's best. Mike Brady was unhappy cause he housed Bedford in his basement while they cooked the outstation basing plan at 9E in 95........Managment's sometimes even screw their own....Mesaba grew and 9E dropped down to 225 pilots. Then NW bought them,,,pumped aircraft into them and sold them for a tidy profit.... Sound familiar???? It is exactly what is happening to XJ now....It seems the SEC should look into sham of devaluing XJ just to buy them cheap.....

.As far as NW wanting to control 100 percent of their feed. They are not buying XJ to operate them nor are they building Compass to operate them either. They are doing this to SELL THEM FOR HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS OF DOLLARS within the next 2 years.....They still control the feed from both PCL and XJ make no mistake...


9E pilots deserve what??????

 

[Ridgeback]

They deserve to feel just how hopless and cold it can be. While XJ's were watched not only their flying disapear they got to see it disappear to an airline that was hiring 200hr Gulfstream guys that couldn't keep them in the air because the temptation to switch seats in mid flight, take photos of empty cockpits, and creating a 410 club that was the doom of two of their pilots. Mesaba pilots also got to hear about F16's being dispatched above DTW because the FA could Wake the pilots up from their nap. They got see how well a CRJ can go off roading in MKE. The list goes on and on. All at a time when the growth was GREAT for 9E, some 140 rj's. Mesaba guys can't get any support from 9e guys. I would suggest reviewing the agreement the XJ MEC made with the 9E MEC in the 90's, the one in which during bad times at 9E, 9E pilot were givin senority credit for time at 9E and welcomed into Xj Ahead of current xj guys. When the time came to recriprocate that agreement 9E MEC was like "well maybe not."


Now because 9E is feeling threatened by Colgan pilots their feeling cheated. Classic!

Years screwing over mesaba pilots......100

Years Cheating death and violations.....2000

Crying about Colgan guys doing to them what they did to XJ...Priceless

 

[Flyer1015]

They deserve to feel just how hopless and cold it can be. While XJ's were watched not only their flying disapear they got to see it disappear to an airline that was hiring 200hr Gulfstream guys that couldn't keep them in the air because the temptation to switch seats in mid flight, take photos of empty cockpits, and creating a 410 club that was the doom of two of their pilots. Mesaba pilots also got to hear about F16's being dispatched above DTW because the FA could Wake the pilots up from their nap. They got see how well a CRJ can go off roading in MKE. The list goes on and on. All at a time when the growth was GREAT for 9E, some 140 rj's. Mesaba guys can't get any support from 9e guys. I would suggest reviewing the agreement the XJ MEC made with the 9E MEC in the 90's, the one in which during bad times at 9E, 9E pilot were givin senority credit for time at 9E and welcomed into Xj Ahead of current xj guys. When the time came to recriprocate that agreement 9E MEC was like "well maybe not."


Now because 9E is feeling threatened by Colgan pilots their feeling cheated. Classic!

Years screwing over mesaba pilots......100

Years Cheating death and violations.....2000

Crying about Colgan guys doing to them what they did to XJ...Priceless

Awww, tell us how you really feel! Don't hold back. We won't bite, promise!

 

[DTWFO]

Question? Are those 9E guys complaining on this web board the same guys that walked through DTW and MSP with a smile on their face as they replace Mesaba's flying with their fancy new CRJ's. Are these also the same 9e guys that while Mesaba pilots were fighting for their jobs just a few months ago couldn't get anything in writting from the 9E ALPA union that they would not fly struck work...even the NWA pilots publicly came out in support for Mesaba. Are these the same 9E guys that wouldn't take a Mesaba pilot with the same deal Mesaba gave 9E pilots back in the late 90's...yes you know what I'm talking about.
Now your whinning and crying because you feel your getting screwed by Colgan pilots. TOO BAD you've been doing it for years to the Mesaba Pilots now you get to enjoy yours.
Also how do you think NWA will respond to this. NWA has always wanted 100% control of their feed. Do you think your still getting those 17 CRJ with no pilot contract and now this.
I would be very concerned with how NWA responds to this...especially since they now own 100% of Mesaba and Compass will get off the ground.

Perhaps the pilots of 9E will see first hand what it's like too how bad it really can get.

Sorry guys but you deserve it.

Guess you were gone the days that 9E guys walked the picket line with Mesaba during their contract talks....and when 9E guys volunteered for Mesaba's information phone line....and when 9E put out a booklet to every pilot explaining how NOT to fly struck work...I could go on and on but you obviously have no clue. By the way....NWA has no control over who Pinnacle can fly for anymore with the new ASA so I doubt anyone will be "concerned" with what NWA thinks about it. Please enlighten me as to how Pinnacle "took Mesaba's flying" when both Mesaba's and Pinnacle's flying comes 100% from NWA...........get a clue.

 

[DTWFO]

Now because 9E is feeling threatened by Colgan pilots their feeling cheated. Classic!

Years screwing over mesaba pilots......100

Years Cheating death and violations.....2000

Crying about Colgan guys doing to them what they did to XJ...Priceless

Wow I wasn't aware that Pinnacle was around in 1907.....and that we were cheating death in the year 7 AD! Damn.

 

[Lear70]

Guess you were gone the days that 9E guys walked the picket line with Mesaba during their contract talks....and when 9E guys volunteered for Mesaba's information phone line....and when 9E put out a booklet to every pilot explaining how NOT to fly struck work...I could go on and on but you obviously have no clue. By the way....NWA has no control over who Pinnacle can fly for anymore with the new ASA so I doubt anyone will be "concerned" with what NWA thinks about it. Please enlighten me as to how Pinnacle "took Mesaba's flying" when both Mesaba's and Pinnacle's flying comes 100% from NWA...........get a clue.

D*MN skippy.

I was one of them. In the fu*king a*s, freezing cold, single-digit temperature DTW weather.

Don't feed the troll.

This is for the Colgan guys reading this who might not understand the history that Ridgeroast is trying to skew.

First, Mesaba didn't buy Pinnacle, operate them as a separate certificate, and use Mesaba money to finance Pinnacle flying. (hint, that's what's going on with PCL and Colgan).

Additionally, as PCL was adding CRJ's, we were also losing Saabs.

Who did those Saabs go to?

Oh that's right, many of them ended up at XJ. I had several buddies upgrade because of those Saabs.

Pinnacle pilots didn't screw anyone.

Just like Colgan PILOTS aren't screwing anyone. This is about PCL management and THEIR intent to screw WHOEVER is in the way of their profits.

This is a completely different animal, and the Colgan guys are getting caught in the crossfire. Best thing the Colgan pilots could do is not say anything (gloating about it WILL get some people riled up) and work on getting the representation they WILL need under PCL management.

This should be an obvious sign of things to come for Colgan. If it happens now, it WILL happen again.

 

[XJohXJ]

/thread hijack

No, all other stuff aside, what happened at Mesaba was:

Mair (Mesaba holding) bought a non-union turbo-prop operator called Big Sky. The purchase, as well as Big Sky's non-stop quarterly loses, were entirely financed by revenue generated by Mesaba labor groups hard work.

Mesaba pilots won a scope clause in their 04 contract. Mair (Mesaba holding) is currently in some jerk-water Texas courtroom (where neither Big Sky, nor Mesaba operate!!!) trying to throw out said scope clause, so Big Sky can get big planes to earn MAIR CEO Paul Foley big money by paying Big Sky pilots crap pay.

Sound familiar? (I know, unlike Big Sky, Colgan is probably profitable.)


end thread hijack/

 

[redflyer65]

Ridgeback, Your clueless dude. It's like the history according to Ridgeback. It's not even close to the truth. Put the pipe down.

 

[Mr Wu]

WTFO!!! There's more Pinna$$holes in these Colgan threads than Colganites. Feck off and start your own threads, we'll drop by in a little while.

 

[BOHICAgain]

bump.