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Colgan new aircrafts

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STREAKS said:
Sweet! Who's gonna give up the Q delivery slots to CO?

Source, if any?
Click to expand...

How about this.. NWA has already placed orders for them and will lease them to 9e's parent who will fly them for continental. NWA still gets some money, Mgt is happy, and 9e mgt is happy becuase they get more cash flow. You think maybe????
 
AvroGuy said:
How about this.. NWA has already placed orders for them and will lease them to 9e's parent who will fly them for continental. NWA still gets some money, Mgt is happy, and 9e mgt is happy becuase they get more cash flow. You think maybe????
Click to expand...


Don't see it happening - not enough return on the investment without the revenue stream from them operating as NW code feed.
 
source? cause everything thats on FI is supposed to be true right??

ill believe it when i see and then i will only believe half of it
 
I guess someone beat me to it...

DJ Pinnacle Air In Capacity Purchase Pact With Continental Air



DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

Pinnacle Airlines Corp. (PNCL) signed a new capacity-purchase agreement with Continental Airlines Inc. (CAL) to operate 15 regional Bombardier Inc. (BDRBF) aircraft as a Continental Connection carrier.

Pinnacle, a Memphis-based airline, said the aircraft will be delivered to its Colgan Air Inc. unit from December through June 2008 and placed into service in early 2008.

The capacity agreement will be for 10 years from the date of the last aircraft delivery, extending through June 2018.

-Adam Kuczynski; 201-938-5400; [email protected]


(END) Dow Jones Newswires

February 05, 2007 09:19 ET (14:19 GMT)

Copyright (c) 2007 Dow Jones & Company, Inc.- - 09 19 AM EST 02-05-07

**Brought to you by Scottrader, a product of Scottrade Inc**
 
I could be totally wrong here, and it wouldn't be the first time, but isn't there some issue dealing with the Newark airport and turboprop flying? I thought there was some deal where there would be no new turboprop flying into Newark, and the only flying done there currently is grandfathered in. Just thought I remembered seeing that somewhere...
 
Even if it where true it would be hard to justify not letting a 70+ seat prop in when they let 50 seat Rjs in
 
Pinnacle To Fly Q400's For CAL In EWR
Continental Airlines Selects Pinnacle Airlines and Bombardier Q400 Aircraft for Newark-Based Regional Service
Monday February 5, 9:00 am ET

NEW YORK, Feb. 5 /PRNewswire-FirstCall/ -- Continental Airlines (NYSE: CAL - News) today announced that it has selected a new regional airline partner and a new type of turboprop aircraft to operate as Continental Connection from its New York hub at Newark Liberty International Airport.

Colgan Air Inc., a subsidiary of Pinnacle Airlines Corp., will operate efficient, quiet and comfortable 74-seat Bombardier Q400 twin-turboprop aircraft on short and medium-distance routes from Liberty starting in early 2008.
"Pinnacle Airlines Corp. and its subsidiary Colgan have the high standards that we expect from our Continental Connection service," said Mark Erwin, Continental's senior vice president of corporate development. "Our selection of the Q400 aircraft is an important move for us because it addresses our need for efficiency without sacrificing our customers' comfort, and because it is well-suited to the unique operating environment at Newark Liberty."
Continental has entered into a 10-year capacity-purchase agreement with Pinnacle Airlines Corp. The company will acquire 15 new Q400 aircraft which it will operate as Continental Connection through its Colgan subsidiary. Continental will schedule and market the service.
The Q400 Aircraft
Manufactured by Bombardier Aerospace, the Q400 is a high-efficiency, modern-technology turboprop, which will be configured with 74 seats in a single cabin. With a maximum cruise speed of 440 mph, the Q400 can keep pace with traffic flows into and out of busy metropolitan airports like Newark Liberty. Passenger comfort will be enhanced by the Q400's state-of-the-art noise and vibration suppression system.
Pinnacle Airlines
Pinnacle Airlines Corp., a publicly traded holding company, is the parent company of Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. and Colgan Air, Inc. Pinnacle Airlines, Inc. operates 135 Bombardier CRJ-200 Regional Jets in the United States and Canada as a Northwest Airlink carrier. Colgan Air, Inc. operates as Continental Connection, United Express and US Airways Express with a fleet of 39 Saab 340 and 11 Beech 1900 turbo-prop regional aircraft.
Continental Airlines
Continental Airlines is the world's fifth largest airline. Continental, together with Continental Express and Continental Connection, has more than 3,100 daily departures throughout the Americas, Europe and Asia, serving 150 domestic and 136 international destinations. More than 400 additional points are served via SkyTeam alliance airlines. With more than 44,000 employees, Continental has hubs serving New York, Houston, Cleveland and Guam, and together with Continental Express, carries approximately 67 million passengers per year. Continental consistently earns awards and critical acclaim for both its operation and its corporate culture.
In 2006, Continental Airlines won its sixth J.D. Power and Associates award since 1996. The carrier received the highest rank in customer satisfaction among network carriers in North America in the J.D. Power and Associates 2006 Airline Satisfaction Index Survey(SM). For the third consecutive year, FORTUNE magazine named Continental the No. 1 Most Admired Global Airline on its 2006 list of Most Admired Global Companies. Continental was also named the No. 1 airline on the publication's 2006 America's Most Admired airline industry list. Additionally, Continental again won major awards at the OAG Airline of the Year Awards including "Best Airline Based in North America" for the third year in a row, and "Best Executive/Business Class" for the fourth consecutive year. For more company information, visit continental.com .

Source: Continental Airlines
 
Hate to say I told you so, but...

Told you so.

Nonconnah is NOT here for you. They're screwing over their own PCL pilots who have generated the profits and credit rating and taking that money they made and putting all the new flying with YOU guys.

Exactly what I predicted.

So you guys might want to tame the celebration over new aircraft. They're coming to you under what SHOULD be a Scope violation that some judge somewhere will probably sign off on anyway.
 
ummmm....Continental purchased the aircraft, not Colgan or Pinnacle

"Continental will purchase all Q400 capacity at predetermined rates and
industry standard pass-through costs. Fuel will be purchased directly by
Continental and provided to Colgan at no cost."

Straight from Yahoo finance! ...Great job Colgan pilots!! All our sweat and hard work have been noticed. It is nice that Continental wants us to fly the plane for them.
 
funnyman12 said:
ummmm....Continental purchased the aircraft, not Colgan or Pinnacle

"Continental will purchase all Q400 capacity at predetermined rates and
industry standard pass-through costs. Fuel will be purchased directly by
Continental and provided to Colgan at no cost."

Straight from Yahoo finance! ...Great job Colgan pilots!! All our sweat and hard work have been noticed. It is nice that Continental wants us to fly the plane for them.
Click to expand...
Simply incorrect. Continental didn't sign with Colgan, it signed with Pinnacle airlines.

PINNACLE AIRLINES has purchased these aircraft, not Continental or Colgan.

Continental has purchased the CAPACITY, and the capacity ONLY.

Check with Reuters for the SEC filing this morning, it's all in there.

What that means is that Continental has purchased the rights to place whoever THEY want in those seats, no one else can sell tickets for them. For that privilege, they agree to pay a set cost per seat per mile (or departure, depends how they have it set up).

If they fill the seats, they make money. If they don't, they lose money. Pinnacle wins either way because PINNACLE OWNS AND OPERATES THE AIRCRAFT and gets paid EITHER WAY.

You might want to check your sources - often newspapers get it wrong or skew things when they're first released. The SEC filings always have the hard raw data in them and are the best source of info.
 
funnyman12 said:
ummmm....Continental purchased the aircraft, not Colgan or Pinnacle

"Continental will purchase all Q400 capacity at predetermined rates and
industry standard pass-through costs. Fuel will be purchased directly by
Continental and provided to Colgan at no cost."

Straight from Yahoo finance! ...Great job Colgan pilots!! All our sweat and hard work have been noticed. It is nice that Continental wants us to fly the plane for them.
Click to expand...


Ummmm, WRONG.

CAL purchased the capacity. Once more: Continental purchased the capacity. Meaning: the airspace above the seats.

Pinnacle purchased the aircraft, using money generated by PCL pilots, and, of course the other PCL labor groups, as well. This purchasing power was NOT generated by Colgan, or Continental labor groups, for that matter.

Nothing against Colgan, or, of course, Continental. But, you Colgan guys need to realize that those Q's are paid for through PCL's abuse, and major underpayment, of their labor groups. PCL labor and sweat bought those aircraft, and they DO have the right now, legally, contractually, and ethically to operate those aircraft.

Do you want in on it? Then organize, and merge lists with PCL.
 
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Lear70 said:
Simply incorrect. Continental didn't sign with Colgan, it signed with Pinnacle airlines.

PINNACLE AIRLINES has purchased these aircraft, not Continental or Colgan.

Continental has purchased the CAPACITY, and the capacity ONLY.

Check with Reuters for the SEC filing this morning, it's all in there.

What that means is that Continental has purchased the rights to place whoever THEY want in those seats, no one else can sell tickets for them. For that privilege, they agree to pay a set cost per seat per mile (or departure, depends how they have it set up).

If they fill the seats, they make money. If they don't, they lose money. Pinnacle wins either way because PINNACLE OWNS AND OPERATES THE AIRCRAFT and gets paid EITHER WAY.

You might want to check your sources - often newspapers get it wrong or skew things when they're first released. The SEC filings always have the hard raw data in them and are the best source of info.
Click to expand...


Rich,

What really suprised me somewhat, was the arrogance of Nonconnah in announcing in the Memphis Business Journal that Pinnacle purchased the aircraft...to be flown by Colgan...etc....everything was Pinnacle. They are so emboldened that they aren't trying to skirt around scope. Just as Hunt said to AV week. They are unconcerned about pilot agreements. If I were them I would have downplayed the issue and led everyone to believe that Colgan had purchased the aircraft. Their ego's are just too big for that.

We all saw this one coming. The deliveries start in December, plenty of time for whatever legal proceedings to go forward. I do not understand the reluctance of the Colgan pilots to combine. They have far more to gain even now.... than standing alone. There has been an announcement of a conference call on Friday. I plan to push the executive team some questions about Q400 pay and the likelyhood that they will hire off the street captains at Colgan to staff the expansion.....I bet the questions won't be answered politely ........
 
What else is new Pinnacle PEOPLE get screwed buy management. This will be interesting to see what ALPA decides to do about this. Atleast Phil should be making some money being they just got their stock options a month ago.
 
n32jk said:
Rich,

What really suprised me somewhat, was the arrogance of Nonconnah in announcing in the Memphis Business Journal that Pinnacle purchased the aircraft...to be flown by Colgan...etc....everything was Pinnacle. They are so emboldened that they aren't trying to skirt around scope. Just as Hunt said to AV week. They are unconcerned about pilot agreements. If I were them I would have downplayed the issue and led everyone to believe that Colgan had purchased the aircraft. Their ego's are just too big for that.

We all saw this one coming. The deliveries start in December, plenty of time for whatever legal proceedings to go forward. I do not understand the reluctance of the Colgan pilots to combine. They have far more to gain even now.... than standing alone. There has been an announcement of a conference call on Friday. I plan to push the executive team some questions about Q400 pay and the likelyhood that they will hire off the street captains at Colgan to staff the expansion.....I bet the questions won't be answered politely ........
Click to expand...
Heh heh... NONE too politely, I'm sure you're right.

I guess the arrogance doesn't really surprise me. While testifying on a pilot's behalf in Federal Court against the company, I got to see first-hand how little Pinnacle Management thinks of pilots and of contracts in general.

The company doesn't have anything to lose either way. The legal team is already paid for. The law suit will have time to make it to court BEFORE they begin operating the aircraft so, if they lose, there are no damages to pay; they simply shift the flying back to PCL pilots and combine the two operations. Worst-case scenario for Nonconnah.

If they win, they get to grow with other business as-planned, all with Colgan pilots, Street Captains as well, all while leaving PCL pilots to fester under pressure to sign a new T.A. to enjoy any growth.

Colgan pilots will certainly get a better pay rate for this new aircraft (albeit still well under industry standard), and they all become Captains as quickly as the aircraft come on property, so Nonconnah is betting they won't organize for years to come.

Eventually, the NWA contract will expire, the CRJ's will start to go away, and PCL will be shrunk just like it was 10 years ago. History will repeat itself.

It's a win-win, either way, for management, from a purely money-generation standpoint. That's why it was so easy to see coming.

Good luck to all my PCL friends; it's going to be a rough battle, emotionally as well. Hope you get a judge who actually believes in justice and honoring contracts as they were intended at Date Of Signing.
 
My version of the MasterCard commercial for Pinnacle Holdings.


Buying Colgan Air.... $20 million dollars

Selling a note gain money to buy Q400s..... $283 million dollars

Telling Pinnacle pilots that their ALPA proposal contract (only 50 million dollars more over its four year duration) is TOO EXPENSIVE.... PRICELESS!


There are some things money can't buy. For everything else, there's PT and his cronies at Nonconnah Blvd.
 
n32,

Your right. I think it's amazing how silly the PCL management has been in dealing with this pilot contract issue. They just keep on making announcements about all the other issues that will bring in more money. How do you come to the table NOW and say we are broke? The industry just keeps getting better, and management just keeps sticking their head in the sand.

They would have done SOOO much better if they would have pushed harder for a agreement earlier before all this stuff has hit the press. If I were in a management position, I would want to negotiate before all the good news comes out. Are these guys really that whack?
 
Last edited:
Lear70 said:
Continental has purchased the CAPACITY, and the capacity ONLY. ...

What that means is that Continental has purchased the rights to place whoever THEY want in those seats, no one else can sell tickets for them.
Click to expand...

As a nice little side bonus, it means that a non-revving Continental pilot will bump a non-rev Colgan/Pinnacle pilot off of his own airplane, because he'll have a higher non-rev priority on this now-Continental-controlled flight.

CommutAir gets to enjoy that little detail on its CLE flights now, and some of their pilots have missed commutes because of it.

Nice, eh?
 
redflyer65 said:
n32,

Your right. I think it's amazing how silly the PCL management has been in dealing with this pilot contract issue. They just keep on making announcements about all the other issues that will bring in more money. How do you come to the table NOW and say we are broke? The industry just keeps getting better, and management just keeps sticking their head in the sand.

They would have done SOOO much better if they would have pushed harder for a agreement earlier before all this stuff has hit the press. If I were in a management position, I would want to negotiate before all the good news comes out. Are these guys really that whack?
Click to expand...

The management clowns are solely there to impress the shareholders.......new airplanes and more revenue impresses the shareholders=more outside investment=more money for management. Giving the pilots more money does not impress the shareholders and won't get the same increase in investment. Management follows the bigger carrot...end of story.....
 
Question? Are those 9E guys complaining on this web board the same guys that walked through DTW and MSP with a smile on their face as they replace Mesaba's flying with their fancy new CRJ's. Are these also the same 9e guys that while Mesaba pilots were fighting for their jobs just a few months ago couldn't get anything in writting from the 9E ALPA union that they would not fly struck work...even the NWA pilots publicly came out in support for Mesaba. Are these the same 9E guys that wouldn't take a Mesaba pilot with the same deal Mesaba gave 9E pilots back in the late 90's...yes you know what I'm talking about.
Now your whinning and crying because you feel your getting screwed by Colgan pilots. TOO BAD you've been doing it for years to the Mesaba Pilots now you get to enjoy yours.
Also how do you think NWA will respond to this. NWA has always wanted 100% control of their feed. Do you think your still getting those 17 CRJ with no pilot contract and now this.
I would be very concerned with how NWA responds to this...especially since they now own 100% of Mesaba and Compass will get off the ground.

Perhaps the pilots of 9E will see first hand what it's like too how bad it really can get.

Sorry guys but you deserve it.
 
Ridgeback said:
Question? Are those 9E guys complaining on this web board the same guys that walked through DTW and MSP with a smile on their face as they replace Mesaba's flying with their fancy new CRJ's. Are these also the same 9e guys that while Mesaba pilots were fighting for their jobs just a few months ago couldn't get anything in writting from the 9E ALPA union that they would not fly struck work...even the NWA pilots publicly came out in support for Mesaba. Are these the same 9E guys that wouldn't take a Mesaba pilot with the same deal Mesaba gave 9E pilots back in the late 90's...yes you know what I'm talking about.
Now your whinning and crying because you feel your getting screwed by Colgan pilots. TOO BAD you've been doing it for years to the Mesaba Pilots now you get to enjoy yours.
Also how do you think NWA will respond to this. NWA has always wanted 100% control of their feed. Do you think your still getting those 17 CRJ with no pilot contract and now this.
I would be very concerned with how NWA responds to this...especially since they now own 100% of Mesaba and Compass will get off the ground.

Perhaps the pilots of 9E will see first hand what it's like too how bad it really can get.

Sorry guys but you deserve it.
Click to expand...

Wow.

Just, wow.
 

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