Colgan 3407 Down in Buffalo

[V-1]

Condolences to all our brothers and sisters at Colgan and to family and friends of the victims of this accident.

 

[joe_pilot]

I saw that too, but must have heard it differently than you. They talked about carb ice in general, but emphasized that Colgan was NOT a carbuerated (sp)plane. The graph for where icing could be/was I thought was excellent. Also CNN had John Wiley, very experienced USAF/airline pilot answering questions from the news anchor. So CNN's reporting wasn't that bad.

Hoser
Roll Tide!

You're right, but he said that AFTER saying it at least twice before, earlier in the day.

 

[av8trinabarrel]

CNN and most media reporters are ignorant-buffoons when it comes to aviation!!!!
Condolences to the families of crew/pax.
The SPOTLIGHT will now be on Bombardier/Dehavilland,Colgan Air,which incidentally is not well liked by the crews that fly there,according to their posts on this forum,and the FAA/DOT/NTSB!!
The accident report will probably take a year on this!!

Along with politics, the economy,global warming etc,etc,etc.

Luckily for us, most of them are excellent with keeping this ignorant country up to date on Britney's latest OD or which rapper is on the run for beating up his ho(girlfriend).

A prayer goes out to everyone involved and too those that take to the skies everyday!

 

[joe_pilot]

Already happened on FOX with Geraldo this morning.

MOTHER FRAKKING JACKASSES!

 

[joe_pilot]

Fox DB just said. These aircraft have wings that take hot air that goes into the winds to make the vibrations that keeps ice from building...

W.T.F.

Ok, that made me laugh. Feeling better now.

 

[DoinTime]

NTSB is reporting the aircraft went out of control at the time the flaps were selected to 15.

 

[Icywings]

they are also saying that they got significant ice build up WHILE the deice system was on. That would indicate a Deice Malfunction.

 

[Dubya]

Fox News reported Delta's reply to approach that they saw nothing on their "T-CAST". This must be what is applied to a broken TCAS.

RIP Crew and Pax

W

 

[Smacktard]

they are also saying that they got significant ice build up WHILE the deice system was on. That would indicate a Deice Malfunction.

Or continued flight into known icing. I think this will be pinned on the crew barring any mechanical failures. How long until the first lawsuit?

 

[Ineedabrew]

Info from the NTSB

The crew discussed significant ice buildup on wind shield and leading edge of the wings.

Gear down one minute before end of recording

Flaps 15 which lead to severe pitch and roll changes

 

[Icywings]

I hate stupid people on CNN that has NO idea what they are talking about!

 

[funnyman12]

hmmmmm.....sounds like a possible tail stall. Sounds like the crew did the right thing in a recovery attempt. NTSB said they retracted the flaps and gear. I guess if it was a tail stall you want to bring the power to idle also. A very scary situation that would be very difficult to recover from.

 

[Medeco]

Deleted

Already stated above.


Medeco

 

[Canadair RJ]

I am not normally the speculative type and I won't start here, but I noticed something interesting on the one close up photo of the tail: What is all that white stuff on the leading edge of the horizontal stab? I'm no expert and maybe it's the light, or something is damaged/melted, or maybe it is ice.

I noticed that as well. But, if you look at pictures of the same airplane before the crash, it was there. I assume it's from ice build up over the year.

http://www.jetphotos.net/viewphoto.php?id=6478793&nseq=0

RIP to the pax and crew.

 

[contrail67]

Or continued flight into known icing. I think this will be pinned on the crew barring any mechanical failures. How long until the first lawsuit?

Since when can you not fly into known icing?

You cannot continue into known severe icing.

 

[Erlanger]

Investigators already cite heavy ice as possible reason.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,492366,00.html

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/29173163/

 

[DH2WN]

All I gotta say is remember Atlantic Coast Airlines circa 1995 when they first got their J-41's. Remember the CMH accident? Pilots new to automation basically reduced power to near idle to configure and descend on the glide slope and forgot to add it back in. Airplane stalled and fell to the ground before they could recover.

It was that accident that started the lunacy of the CRJ training department. 80%+ failure rate. Went on for many years until flyi started and they finally canned the idiot instructors.

 

[WSurf]

hmmmmm.....sounds like a possible tail stall. Sounds like the crew did the right thing in a recovery attempt. NTSB said they retracted the flaps and gear. I guess if it was a tail stall you want to bring the power to idle also. A very scary situation that would be very difficult to recover from.

Yea, I think you can either maintain power or reduce it during a tail stall. I do believe its the opposite from a wing stall recovery.

But if this did happen at flap extension then you can pretty much say its a tailstall.

Damn, this would have been a tuff one to get out of for anyone at that altitude.

I can tell you this, I fly the dash and have alway s maybe felt too comfortable flying in moderate ice. If anything good comes from this for me, it is to have more awarness and respect for icing.

 

[inline]

I was just informed by cnn that DHC-8 has balloons on the wings. Also that turbo props are not rated for icing...WTF?

Quit watching CNN! That network is pathetic. Only MSNBC is worse. Fox news has much better reporting. They've covered this tragedy with a least some intelligent reporting.

 

[Erlanger]

Yea, I think you can either maintain power or reduce it during a tail stall. I do believe its the opposite from a wing stall recover.

But if this did happen at flap extension then you can pretty much say its a tailstall.

Damn, this would have been a tuff one to get out of for anyone at that attitude.

"Severe pitch and roll [began] within seconds" of the flaps being deployed," said Steven Chealander, spokesman for the National Transportation Safety Board. Chealander said that means the plane's nose bucked up and down while the wings dipped and rose violently.

 

[Jurasicpilot]

Does anyone have a "reliable" source of what altitude they were at when the upset occurred.

 

[Erlanger]

Does anyone have a "reliable" source of what altitude they were at when the upset occurred.

If they were at the middle marker and on glide, they would of been at 2300'.

 

[climbhappy]

Fox News has better reporting

yep, I knew that the minute I saw how they spelled TCAS.

Their version was "TCAST"

 

[Andy Neill]

Glide slope intercept for ILS 05 or 23 is 2300 MSL = 1572 above airport.

 

[satpak77]

http://aircrafticing.grc.nasa.gov/courses/inflight_icing/related/3_2_3f_RI.html

Remember, the guys in the link (NASA test pilots....!) purposely initiated (and were expecting) tail stalls, and STILL recovery was difficult.

"....500 feet above the ground, a pilot probably could not recover...."

 

[Morettis]

I worked with the Jumpseater Joe Zuffoletto at my first job flying in Yuma, Arizona. He had been hired a few months before me and was my mentor of sorts showing me the airports we flew to. I think I spent about 150 hours flying with him. As time went on we weren't exactly best friends, but he was always a really good guy.

I can't remember the last time I talked to him, but it was one of those things I kept meaning to do. I guess I'm a little late now...

Sh!t this really sucks.

 

[Smacktard]

Since when can you not fly into known icing?

You cannot continue into known severe icing.

I typed it too fast, that's what I meant.

 

[blesko]

Does the Q have boots on the vertical and horizontal stab or is it similar to the CRJ where bombardier lies and states that ice has no appreciable detrement to aircraft performance?

 

[acaTerry]

Let's all wait for the final. We've all got our opinions, but until then, how about a little quiet.

 

[badog]

woke up to this sh!t this morning in leone! Sorry people looks like some sort of anti ice failure with the auto pilot coupled. Btw media coverage does kinda suck as usual. Being ewr based makes going to work more somber than ever. God bless all involved

B.D.