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Colgan 3407 Down in Buffalo

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I just saw an NTSB report on TV. Forgive me if this has already been posted.

According to the NTSB, the aircraft went into a series of "sever pitch and roll excursions within seconds of the 'Flaps 15' command."

Not speculating, but this does sound eerily similar to the problems the ATR had back in the day.
 
While boots have been reliable over the decades, I sure don't miss them. And I have to admit after 20+ years of flying in the great-lakes region, there is a certain amount of comfort knowing I got a crap-load of hot air pumping through the leading edges!
 
while there is some sentiment to wait till the final report, don't speculate, I don't disagree, however I believe that this unfortunate accident can serve as a trigger event to discuss icing and get our gears turning.

Sometimes the cobwebs build up and things like this serve to clean them out.

just my two cents

I can guarantee you that all day today and yesterday (last night) I have been reading "flying in icing" articles. Would I have read them anyway? Probably not. Hey, being honest.

Lets have some good come out of something bad.
 
Quit watching CNN! That network is pathetic. Only MSNBC is worse. Fox news has much better reporting. They've covered this tragedy with a least some intelligent reporting.

Fox News= Brain Wash Clearing House for the far right.

Sympathies to all affected by this tragic accident.
 
You're right about the CRJ tail..I had a bad ice encounter last year for only a few minutes and diverted to our alternate over a hundred miles away. after landing we still had a crapload of ice on the tail. That didn't make me feel too good about their theories, but supposedly the CRJ can still fly ok with a certain amount on the tail.
 
Why are pilots surpised and disapointed when the news media is inaccurate... their audience isn't pilots.

Quit looking for public and external validation....
 
I flew for Colgan for 6 years and left not too long ago. I'm sure many things have changed since they sold out to Pinnacle, but the thing I never forget was the great people I got to fly with every day. Didn't know the crew, but I feel like I just lost a part of my family. My condolences to everyone @ Colgan and the families of those on the plane.
 
Why are pilots surpised and disapointed when the news media is inaccurate... their audience isn't pilots.

Quit looking for public and external validation....

Maybe because their JOB is to accurately report the news. In the past that was done by either educating themselves or finding someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Sad that you apologize
for people who make a mockery of their chosen profession.
 
Maybe because their JOB is to accurately report the news. In the past that was done by either educating themselves or finding someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Sad that you apologize
for people who make a mockery of their chosen profession.

I won't defend sloppy reporting, but it should be noted that even the NTSB spokesman, being very careful not to analyze anything, made factual errors in his briefing and didn't have information at his fingertips about things he might have been expected to.

I think mistakes are bound to happen and the clamoring for information is part of human nature. We should all realize that the first 48 hours after an accident is full-on silly season in terms of the speculation that goes on in the media. Folks that are very sensitive to reporters and analysts making mistakes should probably stay away from the boob-tube until things settle down a little.
 
That didn't make me feel too good about their theories, but supposedly the CRJ can still fly ok with a certain amount on the tail.

I'm not trying to pick a fight with ya, but the difference is the trimmable horizontal stabilizer. An inverted fixed tailplane like most turboprops have are much more susceptible/sensitive to asymmetric icing. If it makes you feel any better the Boeings don't have it either.
 
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Maybe because their JOB is to accurately report the news. In the past that was done by either educating themselves or finding someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Sad that you apologize
for people who make a mockery of their chosen profession.


Nice try.... all I advocate is the truth and not putting too much time and effort into anything otherwise....
 
Oreilly and Geraldo sat and spoke about pilot experience as if it were a cause for the crash like they were seasoned NTSB accident investigators.

Wow. What tools. Trashing two souls before they are even put to rest.

You can't trust any news outlet anymore.

If I were elloquent enough I would 'pen' a "PITHY" letter to billy-boy to shut his pie hole until the pro's tell him what happened. And kindly keep geraldo looking for jimmy hoffa's grave.

Am I more angry at them for their lack of class or myself for expecting something different?!!!
 
Nice try.... all I advocate is the truth and not putting too much time and effort into anything otherwise....

And yet you defend their sloppy work, and post crap continuously that exemplifies it.
 
Just heard the NTSB IIC reaffirm the crew retracted the flaps and gear after the loss of control. Good on them, they worked up until the end. God bless them. That hit me suddenly.
 
Maybe because their JOB is to accurately report the news. In the past that was done by either educating themselves or finding someone who actually knows what they are talking about. Sad that you apologize
for people who make a mockery of their chosen profession.


Atrdriver,

Journalism is one of the few industries I know with a bleaker outlook than aviation. Massive staffing cutbacks as the papers slowly lose circulation. I was once a newspaper copy editor, and not long after I started taking flying lessons, I would get calls from reporters anytime aviation came up in a story, because I knew more about aviation than anyone else there. Local news/TV focus on their bread and butter: crime, local politics, sports. Even on the big networks, crashes are too infrequent to have someone on staff, (Miles O'Brien was an exception, until he was let go) so they bring in "experts" to speculate, and with no hard data, you often get some wacky theories.

The problem with most crashes is the lack of information. Video of the crash site is pretty much all you have. Cops/NTSB won't say much, so about all they can do is stick a mic in front of the looky-loos who want to be on TV. This forces the TV anchors (many of whom were never reporters) to fill the hours with their thoughts, and we all know how that goes.

I must say in this case I'm shocked at how fast the NTSB released FDR data, but it looks like it will focus attention on the most likely culprit - icing. It'll take many months to uncover all the particulars, but in the meantime, we all know to pay more attention when the weather goes south.

Breaking news is impossible to get right. too much misinformation. you need time to figure out what's really correct, and I think you'll find the media gets it right pretty quickly. Of course newspapers often do a better job. I can't watch cable news on stuff like this - it's too infuriating.
 
Just heard the tape from LiveATC. When Cactus 1452 checks in with tower over the marker, you can hear in his voice what they're seeing. Incredibly sad.

Godspeed to everyone involved.

Be safe out there.

405
 
“…an airline pilot may earn his entire yearly salary in just few minutes. At that moment he would gladly give up the entire amount for the privilege of being elsewhere.”

Ernest K. Gann
 
Sounds like the loss of control happened just after the final flaps setting. If so, the q400 quite aggressively pitches during the transition from 15 to 35 degrees...especially with the auto on. Also, the elevator buffets like crazy while configured at flaps 35. Neither of those scenarios makes me feel good when flying an inverted elevator in icing with the autopilot on.
 
So let me get this straight. The last three airline crashes with fatalities: Pinnacle, Comair, and now Colgan all had a crew member from Gulfstream Academy. I'm seeing a pattern.
The prospect of sharing my profession with this p.o.s. is more than I can deal with right now. I'm done.

Colgan 3407, godspeed.
 
Sounds like the loss of control happened just after the final flaps setting. If so, the q400 quite aggressively pitches during the transition from 15 to 35 degrees...especially with the auto on. Also, the elevator buffets like crazy while configured at flaps 35. Neither of those scenarios makes me feel good when flying an inverted elevator in icing with the autopilot on.

I think the NTSB said the loss of control happened after Flaps 15. I'd be worried like you with those large CP changes with a tail that by all accounts could use more surface area.
 
Would you asshats stop bickering about which news anchor you want to suck off more? Does it really matter in the slightest what CNN on MSNBC are saying? Everyone knows they're talking just to talk so let it go.

Real people with real lives that people here have a personal connection to just died, and you're complaining about which jerkoff news commentator is less accurate.

I'm really glad I fly freight single pilot so I don't have to worry about sitting next to one of you cornholers for days on end.
 

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