CitationShares Questions

[Iam3rd]

especially working for CF......you seem to know me all to well.....how was England?

 

[flagshipper]

Being gone is the game in flying. Very few flying jobs have you home every night and most of those suck. We as pilots aren't paid to fly. We are paid for our time. You should know Sparse coming from a military background. Let me see how much per hour you are making on a 13 month tour could probably come out to the 7 to 8 dollar an hour range maybe. I do not sell myself short and I left the regional world based merely on the principle that I was worth more than 20k a year. The vacation policy will change especially if less and less people keep showing up for class. Oh well we are all on the same side here and as previously stated flying for a living is still a lot better than office job. I used to work 50 hours a week 5 days a week with one week of vacation a year. I had to schedule my doctor's appt during my lunch break or take one of my vacation days. So the flexibilty of flying is one of the perks but it comes at a price.

What lies in your response is exactly what is wrong with this profession. Pilots sell themselves too short. The real earning power of the major airline jobs has come down because some sold themselves short and were willing to do the job for a lot less. Less in real dollars and QOL. Your attitude on vacation is exactly why it will never change. You are willing to do ir for less because less is better than what you have. We need to place real value on what we do. Our week off after a tour is just that, our week off. COmpare the time you spend on the job each week to that of the office types and you will see a staggering figure. The office types get to go home every night. We do not. I don't know for a fact, but I bet they get two weeks vacation. All and all, a fractional pilot spends close to twice the amount of time at work (hours away from home) as the average 40 hour per week worker. One week of vacation os pathetic.

 

[Stinkbug]

Spooken like a guy that loves to be at the companies whim.

Hows that sitting around the FBO's doing? What about the forced overtime with no pay?
Try not to eat all the cookies at the fbo.

You've been misinformed...no one does overtime at CS without being paid for it.

 

[Diesel]

Sorry I ment sitting around fbo's for hours and hours on end with no plane or plan.

Oh yeah what about getting in after midnight? Do you get paid for that?

 

[Stinkbug]

Sorry I ment sitting around fbo's for hours and hours on end with no plane or plan.

Oh yeah what about getting in after midnight? Do you get paid for that?

That's a provision you have in your contract...and good for you for getting it. The rules for overtime are clearly spelled out to any newhire who signs on at CS. If we get in after 3 am, it qualifies as OT. If it's OT, we get paid for it...I just wanted to clear that up, not trying to stir the pot.

 

[Ultra Grump]

If we get in after 3 am, it qualifies as OT. If it's OT, we get paid for it...

WHAT??!! Yeah, that sounds great.

 

[clueless]

couldn't agree with you more. this place really has changed. i heard we just had a class of 19 start and only 12 showed up. people are leaving left and right. mgt is drinking their own koolaid and can't see that the pilots have had enough.

CS is a good place to get hired, upgrade reasonably promptly, get your PIC time, then get on with your life.

20 years at CS? Shoot me now.

 

[NJA bound]

CS is a good place to get hired, upgrade reasonably promptly, get your PIC time, then get on with your life.

20 years at CS? Shoot me now.

20 years in a citation shoot me now!!!!!!! At least at NetJets we have a few different models that you can STAND UP and walk in.

 

[flagshipper]

weird mental picture of a NJA pilot standing up and crying as they walk up and down the aisle fully erect (???) with no hunching saying yes yes yes!!!!!!! with the pax wondering what the heck you are doing

20 years in a citation shoot me now!!!!!!! At least at NetJets we have a few different models that you can STAND UP and walk in.

 

[Stinkbug]

WHAT??!! Yeah, that sounds great.

It is what it is. I was just clarifying. The OT policy has been in place since the beginning, as far as I know. It's not like it just changed...every CS pilot knows the policy when they start here.

 

[Sparse]

It is what it is. I was just clarifying. The OT policy has been in place since the beginning, as far as I know. It's not like it just changed...every CS pilot knows the policy when they start here.

I agree, but what they probably didn't know is that they could begin duty at 6AM, not get home until 02:59, and still get no overtime. It's not the 3 AM arrival, it's the sometimes as much as an 18 hour day getting there. CS is a good place to work. It could be a great deal better and a career job if some of the QOL issues were addressed. The pay is good, it's just some of the other items that are below par.

 

[clueless]

every CS pilot knows the policy when they start here.

Well, sorta....new hires didn't find out that they would be training on their days off with no pay or that if they called in sick that the company could make them work an uncompensated day of overtime to make it up until they were sitting in indoc class, and then it was too late.

I understand that the training is basically on tour now, and I don't know how often they made someone make up a sick day, but don't assume everyone knows everything about the job before they sign on the dotted line.

 

[NJA bound]

I agree, but what they probably didn't know is that they could begin duty at 6AM, not get home until 02:59, and still get no overtime. It's not the 3 AM arrival, it's the sometimes as much as an 18 hour day getting there. CS is a good place to work. It could be a great deal better and a career job if some of the QOL issues were addressed. The pay is good, it's just some of the other items that are below par.

Having a union and CBA is nice, in the above situation a NetJets newhire (year 1 FO) would get an extra $885. (3 days pay $642. and $243. overtime $27. an hour beginning at 6pm).

A captain with 3 years seniority would get double those numbers, about $1,800.

 

[Stinkbug]

Well, sorta....new hires didn't find out that they would be training on their days off with no pay or that if they called in sick that the company could make them work an uncompensated day of overtime to make it up until they were sitting in indoc class, and then it was too late.

I understand that the training is basically on tour now, and I don't know how often they made someone make up a sick day, but don't assume everyone knows everything about the job before they sign on the dotted line.

Do you specifically know someone who's had to make up a sick day? Because I don't. I've called in sick and never been asked to make it up. Once again, I believe there's some misinformation being propagated here.

 

[clueless]

Do you specifically know someone who's had to make up a sick day? Because I don't. I've called in sick and never been asked to make it up. Once again, I believe there's some misinformation being propagated here.

Yeah, I know of one or two who had to, back in the day. How often it was enforced, I don't know, but the policy existed. It was explained to the indoc class by what's-her-name ("Don't lose your aircraft key or you'll answer to me...") and it was called "overtime owed." I doubt they force anyone make up sick days now because the whole concept is flawed, but mgmt also declined to formulate a formal sick day policy a couple years ago when the pilot advisory group brought it up as a sore spot.

Anyway, CS is a decent enough job, but it ain't a career. Maybe it could be someday, but not yet.