CHQ passes by 95%!

[TWAER]

You big bad CHQ pilots, you are just making it harder for the good folk at Mesaba and Coex and everyone else to make a living.


Another example of ignorance and mis information. I know I am not a regional pilot but I work for a regional airline bud. Hey, UPS don't make that much for 10 or more years. I used to work there.

Here we go for the slow folk
CHQ= raising the bar...........stay with me lc130driver.........took no concessions on the current contract.........still with me.................gained something on all sections of the new contract............WOW that's lowering the bar isn't it. How in the *&ck do you think this is going to hurt COEX or Mesaba. CHQ ain't either, plain and simple. Surley the MEC of both companies know you can't compair CHQ to them. MESA maybe but we are not half as big as MESA.

And hey buddy, I can get many jobs that pay twice as much as what I make here, but you know, I love to fly. I never got into it for the money. Apparently you did and it shows. I hope you get $100 an hour and get 8 days off a month. Enjoy the QOL!!!

 

[imfloodedII]

I knew as soon as the EMB-170 showed in IND for free rides, it was all over for CHQ.

Hope the catering crew cleaned the seat-backs, Spankie!

Your 2003 payrates are 5% higher than Calex pay rates. (5th year) - negotiated in 97.

Your current 70 seat payrates are 10% higher for an aircraft with 40% more seats and your 90 seat payrates are 20% higher for an aircraft with 80% more seats.

You're current payrates would barely pay for a cost of living increase for other carriers.

Give us a break. Only 20 more years to cash in at $119!!!

Someone posted that management was laughing at you........sorry, with a 95% passrate, they were too busy picking out their new yachts you just bought them...Try a 60% pass rate next time.

 

[TWAER]

Quote me something I haven't heard 1,000 times.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Originally posted by TWAer
Hey, UPS don't make that much for 10 or more years. I used to work there.

Based on your callsign, am I correct in assuming you voluntarily left UPS for TWA, only to be furloughed and are now at CHQ?

 

[Skull-One]

A lot of guys load boxes to pay the bills while they learn to fly.... I am assuming that is what TWAer did. His credibility is completely intact IMHO....

 

[Hugh G Rection]

let's face reality about transfer's from chq to republic.Republic is going to get 28 jets 170's I believe.Half the seats are going to mainline guys, leaving (assuming3.6 pilots per plane a wexford high amount) a possible 100.2 seats .Now chq will say they can't possilbly afford to lose that many pilots at one time and wexford won't want to pay training costs twice so there will be street hires out there hired on at republic (they've been advertising for them).so lets say thats 40 pilots.That means only 60 chq pilots will make it to republic.Now once they're their they will only allow tranfers through attrition or more jets.If wexford wanted to constantly retrain pilots they would have just put the 170's on at chq and changed the name to something easier.So except for the lucky 60 everyone else is screwed flying 145's.But the teamsters won't care because since they're all on one list they get paid anyways street or not.
Also wexford (and chq) are responsible for 100% of the liabilities at SA meaning that every bill (fuel parts hotels) is either backed or paid by them.So when Republic holings goes public, wexford will write off SA's losses taking a one time charge against capital gains on the republic sale leaving a financially clean certificate.Now that certificate will be immediate competition against Republic now an independant co.And with all wexfords resources behind it Sa will survive and be built up to go publc themselves oneday.

 

[PadFull'oTrim]

I.P.F.

It's just that we can't control Wexford, so why concern ourselves with SA. We can control RAH so thats where we concentrate our efforts.

Didn't SA get some offer from our MEC that was turned down? I'm not sure of the details because they won't even tell our members the full details of what was discussed.

 

[LearLove]

Can someone actually point me to the company/industry announcement of Chq. and or Rep. getting 170's? I'm under the impression that only MDA will fly the EMB-170's, 85 on order (with one geared-up from what I hear).

 

[OldManPilot]

No where has it been offically posted about CHQ recieving ANY additional aircraft.

I believe the E170 rumor was just a "carrot" dangled to solicit votes for the new TA.

There will probably be a few more E145's added to enter service for J4J flying.

 

[BlueCanoe]

let's face reality about transfer's from chq to republic.Republic is going to get 28 jets 170's I believe.Half the seats are going to mainline guys, leaving (assuming3.6 pilots per plane a wexford high amount) a possible 100.2 seats .Now chq will say they can't possilbly afford to lose that many pilots at one time and wexford won't want to pay training costs twice so there will be street hires out there hired on at republic (they've been advertising for them).so lets say thats 40 pilots.That means only 60 chq pilots will make it to republic.Now once they're their they will only allow tranfers through attrition or more jets.If wexford wanted to constantly retrain pilots they would have just put the 170's on at chq and changed the name to something easier.So except for the lucky 60 everyone else is screwed flying 145's.But the teamsters won't care because since they're all on one list they get paid anyways street or not.
Also wexford (and chq) are responsible for 100% of the liabilities at SA meaning that every bill (fuel parts hotels) is either backed or paid by them.So when Republic holings goes public, wexford will write off SA's losses taking a one time charge against capital gains on the republic sale leaving a financially clean certificate.Now that certificate will be immediate competition against Republic now an independant co.And with all wexfords resources behind it Sa will survive and be built up to go publc themselves oneday.

Dude....You're making my head spin. Where did you get this info? You must have alot of free time or something. Slowly, once again. This is how it has been presented to us.

Republic is now used as a tool to do flying CHQ can not. Let's use some what-if deals. DAL would not let CHQ fly for AirTran. Republic has it's own planes, operations, certificate and what-not.
So, now a ATL base is added for RP. Tiny Sack, I'm sure your bid sheet looks EXACTLY like ours. If I lived in ATL, I would bid ATL EM4 CA. Then I would be awarded such.

Now about your incoherent babbling about possible 170's. We may or may not get them. Only time will tell. It was presented to us it would be a UAL J4J. However, read this twice, we would have to add five (5) UAL furloughees to the BOTTOM OF THE LIST (just like they are new-hires) for FO positions in the airplanes. ALL FIVE (5) CA SLOTS PER A/C WILL COME FROM CHQ IN SENIORITY ORDER.

Also, they are still working on a deal to get SA pilots to CHQ.

That all said, do you think it's odd that every time Republic's start date gets pushed back, there is an extension of SA's closure timeline?

 

[Sphincter Boy]

Guys, come on, give it up.

CHQ is a done deal now. There is no changing anything, Lets move forward.

You mean backwards?

 

[Captain X]

Pay rates -- 1/1/04 as determined from ALPA National Research Center

Well, since a CHQ 6 yr CA will make $63.19/hour to fly the same aircraft we fly at XJT for $59.82/hr..............is it still backwards?

The industry average (hourly) pay for a 50-seat jet is $61.10/hr. so CHQ has a pay rate that is higher than industry average....IOW, they aren't dragging anyone down.

Now what carriers (with 50 seat pay) have rates below that average? TSA, SkyWay, Shuttle America, Piedmont, Mesa, ExpressJet, and Allegheney.

Of the 4 ALPA Contracts that have maxed 50-seat pay or are amendable only 1 is below that average------->XJT.

Basically, what I'm getting at is all you XJT boys and girls on here who are spouting off about other pilots contracts and situations had best be ready to pony up 'cause we're about to have to fight the fight everyone else has. We better be ready to put our money where our mouth is; walk the walk, etc. It ain't gonna fall into our laps. It ain't gonna be any different for us.

Comair struck for 89 days. They have the highest hourly rate in the small jet fleets ($67.53/hr); almost 13% higher than ours. Imagine what we're gonna have to do to get what we expect, want, and deserve....................

Those of us at XJT need to quit worrying about other contracts and start worrying about our own.

 

[OldManPilot]

Who is XJT ????

 

[TOGA]

Continental Express = CoEx = ExpressJet = ExJet = XJT.

Captain X -
We're "spouting" about their contract because it's one thing the Jims will be referring to when deciding how much to offer us. Yes, it is backward, as our contract is seven years old. Granted, the rate you quoted is 'only' one year old but, with inflation, they've only done very slightly better than breaking even.

As for the post about profit per a/c: profit, RASM, CASM, etc. = not my problem, nor yours. All those numbers are dependent upon myriad factors, most of which are completely beyond our control. Do you realize that a typical airline (if there is such a thing) could double their pilot's pay and it would only add a few percentage points to their overall costs? The numbers you quoted might be a little high. Hopefully not.

 

[Captain X]

Do you realize that a typical airline (if there is such a thing) could double their pilot's pay and it would only add a few percentage points to their overall costs?

I am very aware of how an increase in pilot compensation rates increases the "cost" to the company. Unfortunately you are off in your assumption that they could "double" pay and it would only bump things up a "few" points. I would be curious to see where and how you come to that conclusion. It's not as simple as most of our brothers and sisters at XJT think.

You'll learn more soon.....trust me.

Also, I'm not sure what numbers you were refering to as "a little high" but all the numbers in my above post came directly from the ALPA National website Research Center. They were taken from all airlines that have 50-seat pay rates and it is the number for a 6-yr CA as of 1/1/04.

All that said....I'm not saying that we aren't "different" at XJT, but someone above said something about throwing stones in glass houses and I think we better go to the big game and win before we start talking about how we're gonna win the "National Championship."

 

[TOGA]

Captain X -
My comment on "numbers being a little high" was in reference to someone else's post that basically stated that because XJTs profits per a/c were double CHQ's (not sure where they got their numbers), our pay numbers "had better" be double theirs. As for the rise in overall cost relative to pilot pay, please bear with my very generalized math. Pilots are typically (I know, not at XJT) about 10% of an airline's workforce. As for their proportion of the overall labor cost . . . I'm not sure, what do you think . . . 20%? Meanwhile, labor as a whole is . . . what, 40% of overall cost? So, if you double a 20% portion of a 40% portion of costs, how much have you increased overall costs? Really, I'm asking, not stating. I've had two (hey, I'm married with kids!) St Pauli's, there's no freakin way I can do that math right now. Anyone? Yes, I know, that's oversimplified . . . other work groups will want theirs, etc. Nonetheless, we could be paid WAY more, and it wouldn't break the bank . . . actual numbers aside, that was my point.

 

[Captain X]

TOGA

I see what you mean and I agree with you that we "could" be paid much more than we currently are. The MAJOR point of my post is that we won't get it without a SERIOUS fight and even then I think people will be surprised (and some dissapointed, maybe) at where the roulette wheel actually stops.

Our pilots need to educate on the "facts" related to OUR airline b/c when you boil it right down to brass tacks, we can't compare ourselves to the highest paid International Wide-body Major, and we can't compare ourselves to the lowest paid 50-seat Jet operator (wouldn't want too either).........really all we can do is compare OUR proposals to OUR financials.

50-seat economics vary from carrier to carrier. And one carrier's labor cost breakdown (hourly rates, work rules, etc) can't be simply "plugged in" to anothers.

Long story short (too late) we have to look at OUR world, OUR economics, OUR proposals and then make the decision on where we should be. The over-generalizations and pay-rate comparisons really don't do much but create "false perceptions" of where things should be. Unfortunately, people hang their hats on those perceptions and then are averse to the "facts."

Again, like I said in the first paragraph of this tirade and in another post:
I see a lot of us at XJT running around like the #15 (ironically, in 50-seat jet pay we are #15 out of 19 with 50-seat pay rates published) team who's bragging about how this is the season that we're going to win the National Championship.

But from what I've seen in practice and how we handle the ball in the red-zone we've got our work cut out for us.

I think we should concentrate on improving OUR game and not everyone elses.

Later

BTW, just one clarification -- Contract '97 was actually ratified on Dec. 14, 1998. This December our contract will be 5 years old not 7.

 

[DCitrus9]

TOGA, here's an easy way to think of pilot pay affecting the bottom line. If you're a CA of a 50 seat seat making 50/hour, they can double your pay and it only costs an extra $1/seat per hour flown. Pilot pay is usually less than $5 per pax. That's less than the TSA morons are charging for "security".

 

[embraerjetpilot]

Everyone, please go, no run to your bookstore and look for a book called Hard Landings... A detailed history of the airlines... you would be shocked...they were not corrupted...they were corrupt the day they started!

 

[BORN2FLY]

SHAMEFUL

BOTTOM LINE: This contract is disgraceful. All you did was pad your management's wallets. As long as pilots SETTLE for being paid "peanuts", that's all we're going to make. What do you think would happen if EVERY PILOT got on the same page and demanded the pay that we deserve? I'll tell you...WE WOULD GET IT! But, since we can't seem to do that, we'll continue to allow the companies to play us against each other. Keeping the fear of being replaced alive. But, what good is a flying job that pays less than a PizzaHut delivery driver? (Yes, I saw a W2 from last year...it's true) What a shame. All you guys that talk about how we CAN'T expect to be paid more than we are is EXACTLY what the problem is. I don't know how old you are or if this is your first job in the "real" world, but, WAKE UP! You can't tell me that you're "ok" with the fact that virtually everyone else in the working environment (even the slackers who have never seen the inside of a college classroom) is making more than we do to fly a jet full of passengers at 37,000 feet.

The fact that this is even an "argument" is sickening!

Oh, and BTW...

I'm rubber, you'r glue...

Just hope I don't meet you on an overnight in a hotel bar. Get a life, brother.

whoever this clown is...grow up "tough guy(boy)".