Sphincter Boy
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CHQ passes by 95%!
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Captain X
Who is John Galt?
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Pay rates -- 1/1/04 as determined from ALPA National Research Center
Well, since a CHQ 6 yr CA will make $63.19/hour to fly the same aircraft we fly at XJT for $59.82/hr..............is it still backwards?
The industry average (hourly) pay for a 50-seat jet is $61.10/hr. so CHQ has a pay rate that is higher than industry average....IOW, they aren't dragging anyone down.
Now what carriers (with 50 seat pay) have rates below that average? TSA, SkyWay, Shuttle America, Piedmont, Mesa, ExpressJet, and Allegheney.
Of the 4 ALPA Contracts that have maxed 50-seat pay or are amendable only 1 is below that average------->XJT.
Basically, what I'm getting at is all you XJT boys and girls on here who are spouting off about other pilots contracts and situations had best be ready to pony up 'cause we're about to have to fight the fight everyone else has. We better be ready to put our money where our mouth is; walk the walk, etc. It ain't gonna fall into our laps. It ain't gonna be any different for us.
Comair struck for 89 days. They have the highest hourly rate in the small jet fleets ($67.53/hr); almost 13% higher than ours. Imagine what we're gonna have to do to get what we expect, want, and deserve....................
Those of us at XJT need to quit worrying about other contracts and start worrying about our own.
Well, since a CHQ 6 yr CA will make $63.19/hour to fly the same aircraft we fly at XJT for $59.82/hr..............is it still backwards?
The industry average (hourly) pay for a 50-seat jet is $61.10/hr. so CHQ has a pay rate that is higher than industry average....IOW, they aren't dragging anyone down.
Now what carriers (with 50 seat pay) have rates below that average? TSA, SkyWay, Shuttle America, Piedmont, Mesa, ExpressJet, and Allegheney.
Of the 4 ALPA Contracts that have maxed 50-seat pay or are amendable only 1 is below that average------->XJT.
Basically, what I'm getting at is all you XJT boys and girls on here who are spouting off about other pilots contracts and situations had best be ready to pony up 'cause we're about to have to fight the fight everyone else has. We better be ready to put our money where our mouth is; walk the walk, etc. It ain't gonna fall into our laps. It ain't gonna be any different for us.
Comair struck for 89 days. They have the highest hourly rate in the small jet fleets ($67.53/hr); almost 13% higher than ours. Imagine what we're gonna have to do to get what we expect, want, and deserve....................
Those of us at XJT need to quit worrying about other contracts and start worrying about our own.
OldManPilot
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TOGA
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Continental Express = CoEx = ExpressJet = ExJet = XJT.
Captain X -
We're "spouting" about their contract because it's one thing the Jims will be referring to when deciding how much to offer us. Yes, it is backward, as our contract is seven years old. Granted, the rate you quoted is 'only' one year old but, with inflation, they've only done very slightly better than breaking even.
As for the post about profit per a/c: profit, RASM, CASM, etc. = not my problem, nor yours. All those numbers are dependent upon myriad factors, most of which are completely beyond our control. Do you realize that a typical airline (if there is such a thing) could double their pilot's pay and it would only add a few percentage points to their overall costs? The numbers you quoted might be a little high. Hopefully not.
Captain X -
We're "spouting" about their contract because it's one thing the Jims will be referring to when deciding how much to offer us. Yes, it is backward, as our contract is seven years old. Granted, the rate you quoted is 'only' one year old but, with inflation, they've only done very slightly better than breaking even.
As for the post about profit per a/c: profit, RASM, CASM, etc. = not my problem, nor yours. All those numbers are dependent upon myriad factors, most of which are completely beyond our control. Do you realize that a typical airline (if there is such a thing) could double their pilot's pay and it would only add a few percentage points to their overall costs? The numbers you quoted might be a little high. Hopefully not.
Captain X
Who is John Galt?
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- 948
TOGA said:
I am very aware of how an increase in pilot compensation rates increases the "cost" to the company. Unfortunately you are off in your assumption that they could "double" pay and it would only bump things up a "few" points. I would be curious to see where and how you come to that conclusion. It's not as simple as most of our brothers and sisters at XJT think.
You'll learn more soon.....trust me.
Also, I'm not sure what numbers you were refering to as "a little high" but all the numbers in my above post came directly from the ALPA National website Research Center. They were taken from all airlines that have 50-seat pay rates and it is the number for a 6-yr CA as of 1/1/04.
All that said....I'm not saying that we aren't "different" at XJT, but someone above said something about throwing stones in glass houses and I think we better go to the big game and win before we start talking about how we're gonna win the "National Championship."
TOGA
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Captain X -
My comment on "numbers being a little high" was in reference to someone else's post that basically stated that because XJTs profits per a/c were double CHQ's (not sure where they got their numbers), our pay numbers "had better" be double theirs. As for the rise in overall cost relative to pilot pay, please bear with my very generalized math. Pilots are typically (I know, not at XJT) about 10% of an airline's workforce. As for their proportion of the overall labor cost . . . I'm not sure, what do you think . . . 20%? Meanwhile, labor as a whole is . . . what, 40% of overall cost? So, if you double a 20% portion of a 40% portion of costs, how much have you increased overall costs? Really, I'm asking, not stating. I've had two (hey, I'm married with kids!) St Pauli's, there's no freakin way I can do that math right now. Anyone? Yes, I know, that's oversimplified . . . other work groups will want theirs, etc. Nonetheless, we could be paid WAY more, and it wouldn't break the bank . . . actual numbers aside, that was my point.
My comment on "numbers being a little high" was in reference to someone else's post that basically stated that because XJTs profits per a/c were double CHQ's (not sure where they got their numbers), our pay numbers "had better" be double theirs. As for the rise in overall cost relative to pilot pay, please bear with my very generalized math. Pilots are typically (I know, not at XJT) about 10% of an airline's workforce. As for their proportion of the overall labor cost . . . I'm not sure, what do you think . . . 20%? Meanwhile, labor as a whole is . . . what, 40% of overall cost? So, if you double a 20% portion of a 40% portion of costs, how much have you increased overall costs? Really, I'm asking, not stating. I've had two (hey, I'm married with kids!) St Pauli's, there's no freakin way I can do that math right now. Anyone? Yes, I know, that's oversimplified . . . other work groups will want theirs, etc. Nonetheless, we could be paid WAY more, and it wouldn't break the bank . . . actual numbers aside, that was my point.
Captain X
Who is John Galt?
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TOGA
I see what you mean and I agree with you that we "could" be paid much more than we currently are. The MAJOR point of my post is that we won't get it without a SERIOUS fight and even then I think people will be surprised (and some dissapointed, maybe) at where the roulette wheel actually stops.
Our pilots need to educate on the "facts" related to OUR airline b/c when you boil it right down to brass tacks, we can't compare ourselves to the highest paid International Wide-body Major, and we can't compare ourselves to the lowest paid 50-seat Jet operator (wouldn't want too either).........really all we can do is compare OUR proposals to OUR financials.
50-seat economics vary from carrier to carrier. And one carrier's labor cost breakdown (hourly rates, work rules, etc) can't be simply "plugged in" to anothers.
Long story short (too late) we have to look at OUR world, OUR economics, OUR proposals and then make the decision on where we should be. The over-generalizations and pay-rate comparisons really don't do much but create "false perceptions" of where things should be. Unfortunately, people hang their hats on those perceptions and then are averse to the "facts."
Again, like I said in the first paragraph of this tirade and in another post:
I see a lot of us at XJT running around like the #15 (ironically, in 50-seat jet pay we are #15 out of 19 with 50-seat pay rates published) team who's bragging about how this is the season that we're going to win the National Championship.
But from what I've seen in practice and how we handle the ball in the red-zone we've got our work cut out for us.
I think we should concentrate on improving OUR game and not everyone elses.
Later
BTW, just one clarification -- Contract '97 was actually ratified on Dec. 14, 1998. This December our contract will be 5 years old not 7.
I see what you mean and I agree with you that we "could" be paid much more than we currently are. The MAJOR point of my post is that we won't get it without a SERIOUS fight and even then I think people will be surprised (and some dissapointed, maybe) at where the roulette wheel actually stops.
Our pilots need to educate on the "facts" related to OUR airline b/c when you boil it right down to brass tacks, we can't compare ourselves to the highest paid International Wide-body Major, and we can't compare ourselves to the lowest paid 50-seat Jet operator (wouldn't want too either).........really all we can do is compare OUR proposals to OUR financials.
50-seat economics vary from carrier to carrier. And one carrier's labor cost breakdown (hourly rates, work rules, etc) can't be simply "plugged in" to anothers.
Long story short (too late) we have to look at OUR world, OUR economics, OUR proposals and then make the decision on where we should be. The over-generalizations and pay-rate comparisons really don't do much but create "false perceptions" of where things should be. Unfortunately, people hang their hats on those perceptions and then are averse to the "facts."
Again, like I said in the first paragraph of this tirade and in another post:
I see a lot of us at XJT running around like the #15 (ironically, in 50-seat jet pay we are #15 out of 19 with 50-seat pay rates published) team who's bragging about how this is the season that we're going to win the National Championship.
But from what I've seen in practice and how we handle the ball in the red-zone we've got our work cut out for us.
I think we should concentrate on improving OUR game and not everyone elses.
Later
BTW, just one clarification -- Contract '97 was actually ratified on Dec. 14, 1998. This December our contract will be 5 years old not 7.
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DCitrus9
Son of a son of a sailor
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- 273
TOGA, here's an easy way to think of pilot pay affecting the bottom line. If you're a CA of a 50 seat seat making 50/hour, they can double your pay and it only costs an extra $1/seat per hour flown. Pilot pay is usually less than $5 per pax. That's less than the TSA morons are charging for "security".
embraerjetpilot
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- Mar 4, 2003
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- 301
SHAMEFUL
BOTTOM LINE: This contract is disgraceful. All you did was pad your management's wallets. As long as pilots SETTLE for being paid "peanuts", that's all we're going to make. What do you think would happen if EVERY PILOT got on the same page and demanded the pay that we deserve? I'll tell you...WE WOULD GET IT! But, since we can't seem to do that, we'll continue to allow the companies to play us against each other. Keeping the fear of being replaced alive. But, what good is a flying job that pays less than a PizzaHut delivery driver? (Yes, I saw a W2 from last year...it's true) What a shame. All you guys that talk about how we CAN'T expect to be paid more than we are is EXACTLY what the problem is. I don't know how old you are or if this is your first job in the "real" world, but, WAKE UP! You can't tell me that you're "ok" with the fact that virtually everyone else in the working environment (even the slackers who have never seen the inside of a college classroom) is making more than we do to fly a jet full of passengers at 37,000 feet.
The fact that this is even an "argument" is sickening!
Oh, and BTW...
whoever this clown is...grow up "tough guy(boy)".
BOTTOM LINE: This contract is disgraceful. All you did was pad your management's wallets. As long as pilots SETTLE for being paid "peanuts", that's all we're going to make. What do you think would happen if EVERY PILOT got on the same page and demanded the pay that we deserve? I'll tell you...WE WOULD GET IT! But, since we can't seem to do that, we'll continue to allow the companies to play us against each other. Keeping the fear of being replaced alive. But, what good is a flying job that pays less than a PizzaHut delivery driver? (Yes, I saw a W2 from last year...it's true) What a shame. All you guys that talk about how we CAN'T expect to be paid more than we are is EXACTLY what the problem is. I don't know how old you are or if this is your first job in the "real" world, but, WAKE UP! You can't tell me that you're "ok" with the fact that virtually everyone else in the working environment (even the slackers who have never seen the inside of a college classroom) is making more than we do to fly a jet full of passengers at 37,000 feet.
The fact that this is even an "argument" is sickening!
Oh, and BTW...
Cracker said:
whoever this clown is...grow up "tough guy(boy)".
Ben Franklin
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If I may speak
I approach the podium as a friend of all pilots, for I once dreamed of what flight may be like as a small boy growing up in Boston.
Alas,
We cannot judge our brothers at CHQ for their individual actions, lest we judge ourselves as individuals as placed in the same situation.
We are only armed with our knowledge, as we see it of a painful and tragic history within the airlines as we know it and yet we throw stones at each other when we should be building missiles to launch at our real collective enemy, airline management.
Working as a printer caused me much toil and I often gave the appearance of being industrious, but I had passions for other things besides my initial career of printer. Politics and inventing are among my favorite other careers.
Therefore, I plead with the masses:
Let us rise up and be counted as a whole. Let us not wait for our managements to make us whole.
Let us band together as a trade, much like the printers of my day, instead of harming each other with pointless phrases and words that can never change what has been done.
Let us not make a war between our individual marketing groups, but let us mend our issues peacefully and enjoy all of the benefits that our profession will allow.
CHQ pilots are not tories, and I have yet to hear of any COEX pilot dumping tea in the harbor. I have ne'er seen a SkyWest or American Eagle pilot engaged in these activities, either. There is still hope for pilots like you, as long as we come together as one powerful trade group and not try to go it alone.
JOIN OR DIE!
I approach the podium as a friend of all pilots, for I once dreamed of what flight may be like as a small boy growing up in Boston.
Alas,
We cannot judge our brothers at CHQ for their individual actions, lest we judge ourselves as individuals as placed in the same situation.
We are only armed with our knowledge, as we see it of a painful and tragic history within the airlines as we know it and yet we throw stones at each other when we should be building missiles to launch at our real collective enemy, airline management.
Working as a printer caused me much toil and I often gave the appearance of being industrious, but I had passions for other things besides my initial career of printer. Politics and inventing are among my favorite other careers.
Therefore, I plead with the masses:
Let us rise up and be counted as a whole. Let us not wait for our managements to make us whole.
Let us band together as a trade, much like the printers of my day, instead of harming each other with pointless phrases and words that can never change what has been done.
Let us not make a war between our individual marketing groups, but let us mend our issues peacefully and enjoy all of the benefits that our profession will allow.
CHQ pilots are not tories, and I have yet to hear of any COEX pilot dumping tea in the harbor. I have ne'er seen a SkyWest or American Eagle pilot engaged in these activities, either. There is still hope for pilots like you, as long as we come together as one powerful trade group and not try to go it alone.
JOIN OR DIE!
Get a life
Since my TV hasn't moved down here yet, I log onto this site for the first time since I got nothing else to do. I will never log on again. You all yellin and cryin about how CHQ shoulda stood up to managment, this and that-as if you yourself coulda done way better on the neg. table, my family is hurting cause of this-well how bout this tough guy/guys-instead of spending endless time typing slander on here like cybernerd-spend some quality time with the family and friends of yours-or do you have any friends?
We did the best we could here. period. Now shut up and get a life.
For the first and last time on here,
E-Man
"Either your brains or your signature will be on this paper. You decide" The Godfather
Go Sox!
Since my TV hasn't moved down here yet, I log onto this site for the first time since I got nothing else to do. I will never log on again. You all yellin and cryin about how CHQ shoulda stood up to managment, this and that-as if you yourself coulda done way better on the neg. table, my family is hurting cause of this-well how bout this tough guy/guys-instead of spending endless time typing slander on here like cybernerd-spend some quality time with the family and friends of yours-or do you have any friends?
We did the best we could here. period. Now shut up and get a life.
For the first and last time on here,
E-Man
"Either your brains or your signature will be on this paper. You decide" The Godfather
Go Sox!
Cracker
Member
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- Sep 2, 2003
- Posts
- 88
For starters, flyr and born2fly...I'm not going to continue with any type of childish personal attacks that you seem fond of. I was trying to push a little sarcastic humor onto an otherwise pointless and relentless thread.
As a FO with CHQ, married with 2 kids, I can honestly say that I live fairly comfortably on my "measly" pay. I guess that I can run a decent budget, but that's just me.
This whole thread and argument is about as trite and overplayed as it has ever been since deregulation. Do you all really think that this has been the first "race to the bottom" in the airline industry. What do you think pilot's were saying when the first low cost airline came onto the scene? What do you think the mainline pilot's were saying when you wholly owned "pukes" (as someone so eloquently put) started to do their routes instead of just being feeders?
This whole pilot bashing concept is only harming the regional industry, as Ben Franklin stated earlier. On the outside looking in it's easy to demean and verbally bash each other. We did what we at CHQ felt was needed at this time. You all will do what is necessary when it comes time for your own negotiations. If your company doesn't pull that whole "sister airline" bs and you can negotiate a TA with out giving up anything, that is absolutely great. Kudos to you all.
This whole "race to the bottom" is won and lost at the negotiating table and CHQ did what we had to do to at least stall the race for us. We don't expect you to understand, we just expect you to do your part when it comes time. If you can do it better...well that's where the leaders are born. Verbally destroying us isn't going to get you anywhere closer to your goal.
As a side note, I urge any CHQ pilot not to participate in this thread any longer if it keeps up this tailspin into a pointless, pissing contest of an argument. I'm embarrased to say that I got sucked in. All of us who read this thread, everyone, not just CHQ, are above this. Honestly, if this thread continues in it's current state, what does that say about our own professionalism?
Politely bowing out and shaking my head...
jeez people...later
As a FO with CHQ, married with 2 kids, I can honestly say that I live fairly comfortably on my "measly" pay. I guess that I can run a decent budget, but that's just me.
This whole thread and argument is about as trite and overplayed as it has ever been since deregulation. Do you all really think that this has been the first "race to the bottom" in the airline industry. What do you think pilot's were saying when the first low cost airline came onto the scene? What do you think the mainline pilot's were saying when you wholly owned "pukes" (as someone so eloquently put) started to do their routes instead of just being feeders?
This whole pilot bashing concept is only harming the regional industry, as Ben Franklin stated earlier. On the outside looking in it's easy to demean and verbally bash each other. We did what we at CHQ felt was needed at this time. You all will do what is necessary when it comes time for your own negotiations. If your company doesn't pull that whole "sister airline" bs and you can negotiate a TA with out giving up anything, that is absolutely great. Kudos to you all.
This whole "race to the bottom" is won and lost at the negotiating table and CHQ did what we had to do to at least stall the race for us. We don't expect you to understand, we just expect you to do your part when it comes time. If you can do it better...well that's where the leaders are born. Verbally destroying us isn't going to get you anywhere closer to your goal.
As a side note, I urge any CHQ pilot not to participate in this thread any longer if it keeps up this tailspin into a pointless, pissing contest of an argument. I'm embarrased to say that I got sucked in. All of us who read this thread, everyone, not just CHQ, are above this. Honestly, if this thread continues in it's current state, what does that say about our own professionalism?
Politely bowing out and shaking my head...
jeez people...later
Cracker said:
Continue? You were the one who told someone he'd better "hope he doesn't meet up with you in a hotel bar."
Cracker said:
I guess you can consider yourself lucky that your family is fond of "Ramen Noodles." You can't seriously sit there and honestly say that you're happy with your compensation. You can't be that ridiculous. C'mon, man...it's not rocket science.
Cracker said:
Wow, I didn't realize this thread has been running since 1978.
Cracker said:
Sit back and watch.
Man, you need a LOT of work.
Air Biscuit
Well-known member
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- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 78
O.K. I made a mistake it was your second ta. It does make some difference because I'm sure that alot of you guys were getting frustrated and wanted to make some kind of improvements over what you had. It is unfortunate though that managements will not give you anything that you aren't willing to walk for. Now that you settled you will be flying at those rates for years and years. You all work for a profitable company and you would have been close to a real strike threat which would have shown management that you weren't a bunch of pu$$ies. I know that you guys don't feel like you are in the same league as Comair and COEX, but it seems that most of you are trying to justify making peanuts and Z-scale wages. When will it end. Compare your job to a UPS driver. $70,000 a year driving boxes and home every night. 9 weeks paid vacation and a nice retirement pension. How much money, time and schooling does it take to get there. None. We have to take pride in our profession. Yeah flying is cool, but it needs to pay the bills. $50,000 a year is not the cat's @ss. Only if you're still living at home with your parents. I think alot of you forgot what it took to get to where you're at and are still excited over hopes of flying bigger equipment. I would fly a C-152 if paid the bills. We need to take back our profession. You aren't Z-scale pilots. The rest of the industry is hurt every time a company is willing to do the job for less. That's why we care about what you guys get paid. We are all union pilots. Unity and resolve is what it's all about. What's done is done and we will all have to live with it. Not just the CHQ pilots.
ERJpusher
Well-known member
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- Dec 6, 2002
- Posts
- 253
To all of you spewing your self-righteous bull$hlt about your contract rates in 1997 as compared to ours:
You keep talking about "raising the bar." Well, guess what? We are trying to work with the bar that YOU set for us. If you would have agreed on higher wages right away, we wouldn't have to work so hard to improve upon them. If you think the rates are crap, WHY IN THE HELL DID YOU SIGN ON FOR THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?
Contrary to your own popular belief, the substandard wages we now see for the 50-seat jet are the result of your own doing. If the first contract you signed had jet captains making $100k right out of the chute, then it wouldn't be so hard to maintain. Instead, you allow the company to pay you $50k, and now blast everyone for not being able to double those rates in 5 years time.
You think we are screwing you right now, but in reality, you screwed yourself and everyone else in the regional industry 5 years ago with your first "bar-setting" contract.
BTW, all of you who are trashing us, you had better never say one positive word about the likes of Southwest, jetBlue, Air Tran, etc. The majors see the LCC's much worse than you see us. If you have an affinity for any of the aforementioned airlines, it would be in your best interest to keep your hypocritical views to yourself.
You keep talking about "raising the bar." Well, guess what? We are trying to work with the bar that YOU set for us. If you would have agreed on higher wages right away, we wouldn't have to work so hard to improve upon them. If you think the rates are crap, WHY IN THE HELL DID YOU SIGN ON FOR THEM IN THE FIRST PLACE?!?
Contrary to your own popular belief, the substandard wages we now see for the 50-seat jet are the result of your own doing. If the first contract you signed had jet captains making $100k right out of the chute, then it wouldn't be so hard to maintain. Instead, you allow the company to pay you $50k, and now blast everyone for not being able to double those rates in 5 years time.
You think we are screwing you right now, but in reality, you screwed yourself and everyone else in the regional industry 5 years ago with your first "bar-setting" contract.
BTW, all of you who are trashing us, you had better never say one positive word about the likes of Southwest, jetBlue, Air Tran, etc. The majors see the LCC's much worse than you see us. If you have an affinity for any of the aforementioned airlines, it would be in your best interest to keep your hypocritical views to yourself.
brew3departure
Da Bears...Bears...Bears
- Joined
- Nov 26, 2001
- Posts
- 145
flyr said
>>Honestly, it's probably that you guys voted in this contract, because if the majority of your peers at CHQ voted to strike, some of you pu$$ies would have just crossed the line anyway!<<
Flyr, this has gone beyond personal attacks. Get a grip, leave the computer for ten minutes, go outside, walk the dog. You are hanging on too tight. It's a message board. It's a computer for christ's sake.
This kind of statement completely discredits just about everything you said before, in my eyes. I hope you don't take that attitude with you into the cockpit. Seriously. CHILL OUT.
>>Honestly, it's probably that you guys voted in this contract, because if the majority of your peers at CHQ voted to strike, some of you pu$$ies would have just crossed the line anyway!<<
Flyr, this has gone beyond personal attacks. Get a grip, leave the computer for ten minutes, go outside, walk the dog. You are hanging on too tight. It's a message board. It's a computer for christ's sake.
This kind of statement completely discredits just about everything you said before, in my eyes. I hope you don't take that attitude with you into the cockpit. Seriously. CHILL OUT.
ERJpusher
Well-known member
- Joined
- Dec 6, 2002
- Posts
- 253
And another thing, flyr: You need to stop saying that our new payscales are lower than you current payscales when, in fact, your payscales are lower than our OLD payscales. Keep in mind that the old contract was signed before we had any jets on property and AFTER you had already signed your contract. You established the bar and now we all have to live with it. I don't care if it was done 5 years ago or 5 months ago, the result is still the same. You agreed to substandard wages that the rest of the industry was forced to follow in order to be competitive.
I don't think our new payscale is anything spectacular, but it is an average 7.5% raise over what we already had, with some important items included. Most notably, scope, which several major airline pilots say is the most important clause in the whole contract.
If you're going to spout off a bunch of idiotic statements, make sure there is some actual fact supporting it. You continue to discredit yourself post after post with your baseless thoughts and opinions. You have thouroughly proven that you are indeed the clueless one in this conversation.
I don't think our new payscale is anything spectacular, but it is an average 7.5% raise over what we already had, with some important items included. Most notably, scope, which several major airline pilots say is the most important clause in the whole contract.
If you're going to spout off a bunch of idiotic statements, make sure there is some actual fact supporting it. You continue to discredit yourself post after post with your baseless thoughts and opinions. You have thouroughly proven that you are indeed the clueless one in this conversation.
ERJpusher said:
Wow, I don't even know where to begin with you. You want to argue from past contract to past contract? Ok...what were you making on your last contract prior to 1997? Contract '97 for us went from $13.00/hr to over $20.00...still WAY behind the power curve, yes. But, a pretty substantial percentage increase. Oh...and, by the way...what kind of "flow-through" did you have as part of your contract in '97????.........?????? You're trying to fight a fire with gasoline.
ERJpusher said:
Bottom line: You have noone to blame for your P.O.S. contract but yourselves. Your "increases" are a disgrace. The only thing that increased in your contract was your "lack of standards and guts."
All of you who voted "YES" should be ashamed.
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T O O L
Man, you should break your own fingers before you think about getting on that keyboard again. Every time you start typing, you prove what a "stain" you are. The flow through worked great for a lot of people, for a long time. Noone could forsee 9/11. There's a "down" side to everything. But, it sure beat the hell out of your flow-through. OH! Wait! You didn't have one.
Just sit back "little-man", and find out what a REAL contract looks like.
Man, you should break your own fingers before you think about getting on that keyboard again. Every time you start typing, you prove what a "stain" you are. The flow through worked great for a lot of people, for a long time. Noone could forsee 9/11. There's a "down" side to everything. But, it sure beat the hell out of your flow-through. OH! Wait! You didn't have one.
Just sit back "little-man", and find out what a REAL contract looks like.
Re: Re: T O O L
Blue,
I'm curious. What, exactly, is wrong with what I said? NOTHING. You guys just don't like being "called out" for what you're responsible for. But, hey, Captain X...I hope my opinion that CHQ rolled over for management doesn't "ruin your job" too. Come on Blue, you can't really be this much of a "stain." OPEN YOUR EYES!
BlueCanoe said:
Blue,
I'm curious. What, exactly, is wrong with what I said? NOTHING. You guys just don't like being "called out" for what you're responsible for. But, hey, Captain X...I hope my opinion that CHQ rolled over for management doesn't "ruin your job" too.
Come on Blue, you can't really be this much of a "stain." OPEN YOUR EYES!
BlueCanoe
Smurfy Good
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2003
- Posts
- 248
Re: Re: Re: T O O L
I was more commenting on your obvious knowledge base of the airline industry and its inner workings. Being CoEx appears to be your first airline according to your profile, and you're still an FO, you seem to have alot of "Fact-based" knowledge of the industry backing you up. I sure hope you get an industry leading contract. You have many things going for you: You are the ONLY source of RJ feed to CAL. You have a ton of planes and pilots. If you don't get an industry LEADING contract, I'll be the first one to let YOU know. Your colleagues at CoEx have a lot of collective experience. Ask about Bill Britt, or some whys and hows of guys who have been in the industry awhile. They're easy to find, look at the top (or first page, however it works) of your seniority list. Get your TA, then gloat about it on here. According to Captain X's research you will need a 13% raise DOS to top Comair.
The goal is set.
Good luck.
BORN2FLY said:Blue,
I'm curious. What, exactly, is wrong with what I said? NOTHING. You guys just don't like being "called out" for what you're responsible for. But, hey, Captain X...I hope my opinion that CHQ rolled over for management doesn't "ruin your job" too.
I was more commenting on your obvious knowledge base of the airline industry and its inner workings. Being CoEx appears to be your first airline according to your profile, and you're still an FO, you seem to have alot of "Fact-based" knowledge of the industry backing you up. I sure hope you get an industry leading contract. You have many things going for you: You are the ONLY source of RJ feed to CAL. You have a ton of planes and pilots. If you don't get an industry LEADING contract, I'll be the first one to let YOU know. Your colleagues at CoEx have a lot of collective experience. Ask about Bill Britt, or some whys and hows of guys who have been in the industry awhile. They're easy to find, look at the top (or first page, however it works) of your seniority list. Get your TA, then gloat about it on here. According to Captain X's research you will need a 13% raise DOS to top Comair.
The goal is set.
Good luck.
Air Biscuit
Well-known member
- Joined
- Oct 12, 2003
- Posts
- 78
Ben Franklin
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- Joined
- Oct 13, 2003
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- 580
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