CHQ passes by 95%!

[TWAER]

Bla Bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla bla!

That's all I see when I read this board. Still after all these weeks I read the ignorance from people who don't have a clue about contracts at companies that they don't work for. Tell me FLYR, how did this contract "bring down the industry"? I have been at CHQ for quite some time and guess what? My quality of life just went up! And you know what else? My brand new FO's quality of life just went up also. We have a much better contract now than we had before. Is it as good as your greatly superior COEX contract? I don't know and I don't care. And you know what, nobody else at CHQ cares either. You know, I think if you get a better contract than the one you just had, you are doing OK. Did we get a Comair contract. No we didn't. But do you really think Comair would get a Comair contract today. If you think they would, I have a really nice car I would like to sell you.

Good luck to you on getting your BIG payraise in your next contract. I guess if you don't get it YOU will be responsible for bringing down the industry.

 

[Cracker]

Hey Flyr,

I wasn't threatening a fight. My wirey butt would probably get rolled on. I'm just not going to buy you any drinks. Didn't mean to get your g-string into a bunch. Get a life, brother.

 

[Looking4Traffic]

They're Laughing At Us

I spoke to a friend of mine the other day. His occupation isn't important but his spouse is in upper-level managment at a well known national carrier. And you know what he told me? They're laughing at us. That's right. The guys who write our checks are laughing at us. They love the fact that mainline pilots despise 'regional' pilots and they're delighted that regional pilots squabble with other regional pilots. Considerable time and money is spent by management to ensure that they have the upper-hand in labor negotiations and they describe pilots as "scared" and "reactionary", not "strong" or "proactive."

In short, management would love to read this current thread because, like many others I've read, anger is directed back-and-forth across pilot groups instead of being directed at the source of the problem: employers who will stop at nothing to reduce labor costs and a complete lack of unity in the community of professional pilots to put an end to unjust wages.

I'm proud to be a professional pilot but I'm embarrassed that my friend is right -- we're so busy worrying about our own plate of food that we're missing the laughter coming from the kitchen.

 

[belchfire]

AA airplanes operated by TWA

Look closer...white sticker, red letters, they used to be next to the main cabin
entrance...now down by the nose strake on the left side, (MD 8x's) and I quote TWA LLC an American Airlines Company. Not that AA has lived up to the things they told the FTC and protected the TWA jobs and the STL hub.

Not that a 45 min flight gave me time to read all of a 3/4 inch thick packet, but it is one he!! of a lot better than what I have, better than Mesa, and if you have better than CHQ got, well, look forward to your retirement! Since when do rj crews deserve a mainline payscale?

 

[Mr Hat]

Knock my contract. Knock my company. I may be a 3rd class citizen to you, but my company treats us all the same. We don't have a "Basement Division" for pilots, FA's or rampers.

Actually, You're not a second class citizen to me, although you obviously believe that you deserve second class citizen pay. Thats the point. You're job is NO different than that of a Continental, American, Delta, Southwest, United, USair pilot. If you are flying jets, you're job is exactly the same, dont you deserve pay that is consumerate with theirs? Jumpseat on a 737 then tell me what the difference is between that and what you do. I dont know what kind of flying you do at CHQ but this week I am going from EWR to BHM to IAH to DSM...overnight then DSM, EWR done. DSM-EWR is blocked to 2:30 minutes although it usually takes 3 hours. Our longest right now is EWR to Kansas City. If we could do transcons, we would, I guarentee it. When I got hired, I flew the BE1900 from CLE to places like FNT, DTW, ERI, PIT... connecting smaller communities to CLE to get on big CAL and go wherever in the world they were going. Now, Im not feeding CAL anymore, instead, I do CAL flying for them. Im not happy about it, CAL flying should be done by CAL pilots but they failed to get a good scope clause that allowed my company to expand to 275 jets with another 100 on option. The industry has changed. These jets are no longer feeding mainline, they are a major part of mainline. They arent "Turbo props without props" so why do they pay like turbo props? Because thats the way they were sold to the major airline pilots of the 90's, "Dont worry, they are just turbo-props without props"
So they took ATR pay and up'ed it to ATR pay if the ATR had 50 seats.....not 737 pay if the 737 had 50 seats. So the farce continues, why? Because we allow it. When these other "regionals" sign contracts that allow them to pay turbo prop pay to jet pilots, they make it extremely difficult for others to break that chain. Our management points to Mesa and says look....and look at CHQ! Why should you be any different?
So why all the anger? Because your contract just made it harder for us to help the rest of our ALPA brothers to break the chain and raise the bar. Like I said, I want fair pay, not the highest pay.

Since when do rj crews deserve a mainline payscale?

What "Region" do these "Regional Jets" fly in? They are Jets, the term "regional jets" is a marketing term and its there to make them seem insignificant so they dont have to pay "RJ" crews like they do real airline pilots flying real jets. And it looks like you bought it. We have gate agents who say "Oh yeah we get 3 Express flights and 1 Jet in here nowadays" They dont even acknowlege that the E145 is a Jet!

Looking4Traffic, Nice post. Yes they are laughing at us. All the way to the bank!

And guys, you really need to research you're history. NO SELF RESPECTING ALPA PILOT WOULDNT SAY "I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF OUR NEW CONTRACT"
ALPA is about equal pay for equal work, read it, its there in black and white. Read you're code of ethics and the constitution and bylaws. You also need to read Flying the Line Vol I and II. You're contract is you're contribution to the furthering of our profession and it is you're contribution to you're industry. These concessionary contracts are dragging the rest of us down, and that WAS a concessionary contract. Yes its true that the MAJOR airlines are loosing money, most "regional airlines are not, they are making money hand over fist due to major airline outsourcing their expensive flying to us because we are really inexpensive (because we are paid like McDonalds managers)
Concessionary contracts are really not necessary.

BTW: This misconception needs to stop, there is no such airline as "Continental Express" we are ExpressJet and we are an independant company, we are NOT wholly owned by CAL. Used to be but not anymore. That doesnt mean that we change our expectations.

Also, no need to get nasty, Im not slamming any of you. I just disagree with you and I wish you would see that you are worth much more than 95% of you voted for.

 

[jumppilot]

You scumbags make me sick.

I find it funny that most of the people I fly with (CHQ) bitch less than the people on this board who don't even work for us!

I think people are losing sight of the big picture. A regional pilot's job is easy. It is ridiculously easy. Making over $50,000/year (3rd year capt.) is quite a bit of money to be making. Did anyone ever stop comparing our pay to the majors (who are screwed now due to their wildly inflated pay rates) and start thinking realistically? Spare me the "I'm married and have 3 kids...I'm a 1st year FO blah blah blah"...

You signed up for this job knowing what you'd make. You don't like it? Leave. Go do something else...No one is making you stay...Oh, that's right, you love aviation too much and couldn't comtemplate a job on "the outside". Whatever.

Sorry for the rant.

 

[belchfire]

it is a question of economics...
the CEO of colgan, for instance, don't make
what the ceo of AA makes...you can't
generate as much revenue with a rj as
you can with a 717 or whatever.

The Payscale at SW and AirTran isn't what
it is at AA, NWA, DA, etc...but SW and Airtran
are in the black.

I fly all the time, eight legs sometimes, no
autopilot ever (js 32). Do that all day
(some of you have, I know). It is hella
more "work" (sometimes we don't ever
even break out on top) than letting
george fly the **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** approaches, but I
don't get even what my company promised
when I got hired(pay frozen)...But there is no
way we can generate the rev that a rj
can. I would like to get what mngmt said
I would be getting at this point "I want my
two dollars!".

But there is no way a regional line can pay
737 wages to a rj pilot...the cashflow isn't
there...get a grip!

BTW...I seen her in the paint...nice!

And what the he!!, all contracts are
"concessionary", that's why they take so
long to "negotiate".

I don't know of any rj's that can go
LGA to LAX...the DC-9 was the original
rj...900nm range...but watch out, I
bet the CRJ 2500 is coming!

PS...I truly am not pro management...ya know
to tell if management is lieing? Their lips are moving!

 

[Flea]

I find it funny that most of the people I fly with (CHQ) bitch less than the people on this board who don't even work for us!

You are wrong about that. There are plenty of people on this board that don't work for CHQ that support you, and the piece of garbage you are defending. They are know as Mesa pilots.

I think people are losing sight of the big picture. A regional pilot's job is easy. It is ridiculously easy. Making over $50,000/year (3rd year capt.) is quite a bit of money to be making.

This is what you call the big picture?!? You really haven't got a clue do you? Try reading the posts again by Mr. Hat. And, pay attention this time!

The thing about the 95% of CHQ pilots (and ?% of Mesa) is that they know they sold out to the rest of the ALPA group. But, rather than admit that they are panzies, they will defend their actions 'til the end. You guys have to learn that you MUST tow your end of the ALPA rope.

Mr. Hat, Flyr, there is no convincing them.

Peace.

 

[BlueCanoe]

Actually, You're not a second class citizen to me...You're job is NO different than that of a Continental, American, Delta, Southwest, United, USair pilot. If you are flying jets, you're job is exactly the same, dont you deserve pay that is consumerate with theirs?...They dont even acknowlege that the E145 is a Jet!...NO SELF RESPECTING ALPA PILOT WOULDNT SAY "I DONT CARE WHAT YOU THINK OF OUR NEW CONTRACT"...ALPA is about equal pay for equal work, read it, its there in black and white...BTW: This misconception needs to stop, there is no such airline as "Continental Express" we are ExpressJet and we are an independant company, we are NOT wholly owned by CAL...Also, no need to get nasty, Im not slamming any of you. I just disagree with you and I wish you would see that you are worth much more than 95% of you voted for.

Let's invert the order.

1) You are slamming us. Don't lie. Didn't your mom teach you better? Cops and firemen are worth more than they're paid (and they REALLY put their lives on the line).

2) You are correct, there is no "Continental Express" There is XJet, an airline totally independent and free of CAL's control. Your multiple code-sharing partnerships prove this point.

3) ALPA is about equal pay for equal work, which is why they allow for "B-Scales" and allowed the regionals to form. Ask the DCI WO guys about this one. (Since you obviously don't know, CHQ is IBT)

4) No self-respecting ALPA pilot?? Whew, I have self respect, but I'm not an ALPA pilot. Is that possible, Plato?

5) They don't even acknowledge a E145 is a jet!! Is it? I haven't done a walk around in a while now. All I know is that it comes in 3 sizes - small, medium and large. If that really bothers you, a nice red sports car could help you in that area.

6) My job is the same if it has props or jets. Riddle me this: would my job be harder if I had a (substitute Tprop of your choice) or a ERJ on a 2 hr flight?

7) That's good I'm not a 2nd class citizen to you. You're not a 2nd class citizen to me. Actually, being a somewhat liberal individual, I don't believe anyone is a 2nd class citizen. However, WO employees are second class citizens to the Major Airline. Otherwise, you would have been integrated. However, I deserve to get paid based on my productivity, not some mythological self-worth exercise (which sounds very liberal from pilots, who are usually very conservative.)

8) Good luck on your contract. I hope you get Comair +.

 

[Saluki Dawg]

To all of my CALEX brethren, I would just like to urge all of you to get behind and support the CHQ pilots and their new contract. They are happy with what they got. I keep hearing them tell us that they aren't CALEX, Comair, ASA, or Eagle. They are absolutely right. CALEX is more than twice their size. That's nothing against CHQ, that's just a simple fact. We are exclusively with one airline and provide ALL of that airline's Small Jet feed. We have 218 Jets and over 2500 pilots. This gives us much more leverage than the CHQ pilots had over their respective management. So let's just keep our opinions to ourselves right now, whatever they may be and let our next contract speak for itself. Because I can assure you, with the unity that this pilot group has, we will have said everything that needs to be said when the time comes. And BTW, CHQ is not an ALPA carrier, they are represented by IBT I believe, so all things considered, I think that they probably got the best deal that they could with the Union they had representing them. Instead of insulting their pilot group, maybe we should be starting an ALPA educational campaign to get this pilot group represented by ALPA. And for the record, yes I do think that ALPA could have gotten CHQ a better contract than IBT because they only represent pilots, unlike the IBT.

 

[BlueCanoe]

You guys have to learn that you MUST tow your end of the ALPA rope.

If you want, you can check the CHQ results at the IBT website.

I'd be upset too if my airline got bought by another airline and didn't get integrated with my pilot brothers.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

I think people are losing sight of the big picture. A regional pilot's job is easy. It is ridiculously easy. Making over $50,000/year (3rd year capt.) is quite a bit of money to be making. Did anyone ever stop comparing our pay to the majors (who are screwed now due to their wildly inflated pay rates) and start thinking realistically? Spare me the "I'm married and have 3 kids...I'm a 1st year FO blah blah blah"...

Are you for real? Just keep rationalizing why you are worthless.

No the majors are not screwed because of pay rates. Hello Mc Fly could it be that the business model is flawed and outdated.

You signed up for this job knowing what you'd make. You don't like it? Leave. Go do something else...No one is making you stay...Oh, that's right, you love aviation too much and couldn't comtemplate a job on "the outside". Whatever.

Nice cop out. Same old lame arguement. This stupid response just gets old. No one should ever try to improve their lot in life right? Thank god you are in the minority or we still would be using child labor and losing 1 pilot a day. My wife teaches dog obediance classes, maybe you should join since you seem to be good at following commands.

 

[BlueCanoe]

To all of my CALEX brethren, I would just like to urge all of you to get behind and support the CHQ pilots and their new contract. They are happy with what they got. I keep hearing them tell us that they aren't CALEX, Comair, ASA, or Eagle. They are absolutely right. CALEX is more than twice their size. That's nothing against CHQ, that's just a simple fact. We are exclusively with one airline and provide ALL of that airline's Small Jet feed. We have 218 Jets and over 2500 pilots. This gives us much more leverage than the CHQ pilots had over their respective management. So let's just keep our opinions to ourselves right now, whatever they may be and let our next contract speak for itself. Because I can assure you, with the unity that this pilot group has, we will have said everything that needs to be said when the time comes. And BTW, CHQ is not an ALPA carrier, they are represented by IBT I believe, so all things considered, I think that they probably got the best deal that they could with the Union they had representing them. Instead of insulting their pilot group, maybe we should be starting an ALPA educational campaign to get this pilot group represented by ALPA. And for the record, yes I do think that ALPA could have gotten CHQ a better contract than IBT because they only represent pilots, unlike the IBT.

You are my new best friend, but I don't I agree with the ALPA stuff, but all else is not only well said, but echos my sentiments (which I can't say with the class you did).

 

[jumppilot]

The thing about the 95% of CHQ pilots (and ?% of Mesa) is that they know they sold out to the rest of the ALPA group. But, rather than admit that they are panzies, they will defend their actions 'til the end. You guys have to learn that you MUST tow your end of the ALPA rope.

Peace.

Sorry, I'm not represented by ALPA.

I make my money and when I'm off I do the things that truly make me happy. Work is not my life, and even though I'm on flightinfo tonight trying to say my point of view I have the next 6 days off...Yeah, I'm going to Alaska to go fishing with a buddy. My life, and my contract, isn't that bad.

Check my profile, I rarely post, and you'll see I'm a CHQ first year FO...And even before I started this job I realized what I was getting into...even before everyone brought up the point of "towing the ALPA line". Once again, whatever.

Our contract passed. For all of those people who supported it, you did it for your own reasons... And for those of you who didn't you did it for your own reasons...Lets move on and stop the complaining.

Nice cop out. Same old lame arguement. This stupid response just gets old. No one should ever try to improve their lot in life right? Thank god you are in the minority or we still would be using child labor and losing 1 pilot a day. My wife teaches dog obediance classes, maybe you should join since you seem to be good at following commands.

I'm happy at my job, are you? And no, I'm not happy to be in a jet, cause the glamour is gone. But no matter what we do, we are going to be underpaid and under appreciated. Ask anyone is any profession. $50,000/year to fly an RJ? I'll take that. Would you?

 

[I.P. Freley]

Man am I going to love it when all of these sanctimonious ExpJet blowhards don't get the contract that "raises the bar" and we can all slam THEM.

Go ahead, EJ, make a liar out of me. It's easy to slam Mesa/CHQ/whomever, but I don't think you have the cojones... and I look forward to the result.

I think that some EJ pilotos can learn a thing or two from the old "glass houses" thing.

Already salivating in anticipation....