CHQ passes by 95%!

[BlueCanoe]

You guys have to learn that you MUST tow your end of the ALPA rope.

If you want, you can check the CHQ results at the IBT website.

I'd be upset too if my airline got bought by another airline and didn't get integrated with my pilot brothers.

 

[Ivan Yankenoff]

I think people are losing sight of the big picture. A regional pilot's job is easy. It is ridiculously easy. Making over $50,000/year (3rd year capt.) is quite a bit of money to be making. Did anyone ever stop comparing our pay to the majors (who are screwed now due to their wildly inflated pay rates) and start thinking realistically? Spare me the "I'm married and have 3 kids...I'm a 1st year FO blah blah blah"...

Are you for real? Just keep rationalizing why you are worthless.

No the majors are not screwed because of pay rates. Hello Mc Fly could it be that the business model is flawed and outdated.

You signed up for this job knowing what you'd make. You don't like it? Leave. Go do something else...No one is making you stay...Oh, that's right, you love aviation too much and couldn't comtemplate a job on "the outside". Whatever.

Nice cop out. Same old lame arguement. This stupid response just gets old. No one should ever try to improve their lot in life right? Thank god you are in the minority or we still would be using child labor and losing 1 pilot a day. My wife teaches dog obediance classes, maybe you should join since you seem to be good at following commands.

 

[BlueCanoe]

To all of my CALEX brethren, I would just like to urge all of you to get behind and support the CHQ pilots and their new contract. They are happy with what they got. I keep hearing them tell us that they aren't CALEX, Comair, ASA, or Eagle. They are absolutely right. CALEX is more than twice their size. That's nothing against CHQ, that's just a simple fact. We are exclusively with one airline and provide ALL of that airline's Small Jet feed. We have 218 Jets and over 2500 pilots. This gives us much more leverage than the CHQ pilots had over their respective management. So let's just keep our opinions to ourselves right now, whatever they may be and let our next contract speak for itself. Because I can assure you, with the unity that this pilot group has, we will have said everything that needs to be said when the time comes. And BTW, CHQ is not an ALPA carrier, they are represented by IBT I believe, so all things considered, I think that they probably got the best deal that they could with the Union they had representing them. Instead of insulting their pilot group, maybe we should be starting an ALPA educational campaign to get this pilot group represented by ALPA. And for the record, yes I do think that ALPA could have gotten CHQ a better contract than IBT because they only represent pilots, unlike the IBT.

You are my new best friend, but I don't I agree with the ALPA stuff, but all else is not only well said, but echos my sentiments (which I can't say with the class you did).

 

[jumppilot]

The thing about the 95% of CHQ pilots (and ?% of Mesa) is that they know they sold out to the rest of the ALPA group. But, rather than admit that they are panzies, they will defend their actions 'til the end. You guys have to learn that you MUST tow your end of the ALPA rope.

Peace.

Sorry, I'm not represented by ALPA.

I make my money and when I'm off I do the things that truly make me happy. Work is not my life, and even though I'm on flightinfo tonight trying to say my point of view I have the next 6 days off...Yeah, I'm going to Alaska to go fishing with a buddy. My life, and my contract, isn't that bad.

Check my profile, I rarely post, and you'll see I'm a CHQ first year FO...And even before I started this job I realized what I was getting into...even before everyone brought up the point of "towing the ALPA line". Once again, whatever.

Our contract passed. For all of those people who supported it, you did it for your own reasons... And for those of you who didn't you did it for your own reasons...Lets move on and stop the complaining.

Nice cop out. Same old lame arguement. This stupid response just gets old. No one should ever try to improve their lot in life right? Thank god you are in the minority or we still would be using child labor and losing 1 pilot a day. My wife teaches dog obediance classes, maybe you should join since you seem to be good at following commands.

I'm happy at my job, are you? And no, I'm not happy to be in a jet, cause the glamour is gone. But no matter what we do, we are going to be underpaid and under appreciated. Ask anyone is any profession. $50,000/year to fly an RJ? I'll take that. Would you?

 

[I.P. Freley]

Man am I going to love it when all of these sanctimonious ExpJet blowhards don't get the contract that "raises the bar" and we can all slam THEM.

Go ahead, EJ, make a liar out of me. It's easy to slam Mesa/CHQ/whomever, but I don't think you have the cojones... and I look forward to the result.

I think that some EJ pilotos can learn a thing or two from the old "glass houses" thing.

Already salivating in anticipation....

 

[Mr Hat]

Okay, I did make a mistake, for some reason I had it in my head that CHQ was ALPA. It shouldnt matter as you guys are all part of this thing we call the airline industry and all pilots out there are you're brothers. In any case, You're happy with you're pay, so be it. Maybe you couldnt have done any better but just remember this, yes an RJ is a jet, it is no different than a mainline jet and it can support mainline wages. Not 737 wages, mainline wages meaning it should be at least in line with the majors not inline with this farce we call the regionals. Hell, Citation pilots make more than us at some corporations. YOU DESERVE MORE and I will maintain that until my 60th birthday. As for CAL controlling us, yes thats true however integration isnt black and white otherwise we would have been successful in it. Having the entire IAH CAL base hating us doesnt help the integration front either. But in terms of business, we are not part of CAL, we are an independant company and thats the way the mediator sees it.
Next time, it is okay to push a little and improve things. I may sound a little harsh but thats because Im a Jersey guy...just the way it is. If I was truly slamming you guys I would have just said "What a bunch of ass*oles" without any explaination.
Nobodys hiring so you aint goin anywhere for quite a while, I certainly hope 50,000 a year is good enough if it becomes a career. And it very well might become a career.

In closing, I would like to publically commend both our Negotiating Committee and our company management for working hard for the last year or so to come to a fair agreement. We are almost finished and we have already made significant gains.

 

[Captain X]

Just out of curiousity's (?) sake -- what was the average % increase in hourly compensation rates alone at both Mesa & CHQ? If it's easier, just let us know for the average longevity of your CAs and FOs.

The reason I'm wondering is b/c I know the both CBAs made tremendous GAINS over YOUR previous contracts.

I agree with what someone said up higher -- I believe my fellow XJet pilots may be in for a rude awakening.

 

[TWAER]

Mr. Hat

I AM worth MAINLINE WAGES. PERIOD. I want and deserve to make as much as a 737 driver. But do I expect to get those wages in one contract when the last contract was basically a prop contract with a few jet rates. You know NASA didn't go to the moon on the first or second launch and I don't expect mainline wages on the second contract. Do you think that CHQ will give us a 100% pay increase? We all want to be paid better and I am sure that in four years, we will. Will it ever be mainline rates? Who knows. You have to build upon your last contact and make sure it is better. That, we did accomolish. All I hear about is PAY PAY PAY. Did you even look at the other 130 pages of the contract? If so have you seen the piece of crap old contract we have been living under?

I don't know how many contracts you have had, but it is most likely more than we have had. I hope you get everything you want. Comparing your contract to ours is like apples and oranges.


Ivan, man I think it is time to find a new job. Life is too short to hate your job so much. Everyone is entitled to their opinions but get real.

Are you for real? Just keep rationalizing why you are worthless.

No I am not worthless, but I guess if you choose to stay at CHQ, you may be. You MUST be worth so much more than what you are making now. Let me guess, furloughed mainline pilot. You want mainline rates, well OK, me too. Just one thing, it ain't gonna happen with one contract probably not two or three. I will say this, our next contract WILL be better and have better pay. Maybe you should go to Comair or COEX or Eagle or AirWiskey. Maybe you will be "worth more" over there.

IVAN, I DID improve my lot on life! MY PAY and , now get this, MY Quality of life improved. How bout that. Maybe yours went down because you came form a mainline job. Tell me of a regional that your QOL wouldn't get worse. If you for one second don't think the pilots of CHQ improved their "lot on life" you obviously have no clue about where this company and Union have been.

 

[Floyd94]

I think people are losing sight of the big picture. A regional pilot's job is easy. It is ridiculously easy. Making over $50,000/year (3rd year capt.) is quite a bit of money to be making. Did anyone ever stop comparing our pay to the majors (who are screwed now due to their wildly inflated pay rates) and start thinking realistically? Spare me the "I'm married and have 3 kids...I'm a 1st year FO blah blah blah"...

You signed up for this job knowing what you'd make. You don't like it? Leave. Go do something else...No one is making you stay...Oh, that's right, you love aviation too much and couldn't comtemplate a job on "the outside". Whatever.

Its Jim Nides ladies and gentlemen! Ole' Jimmy has joined us this evening... Lets all give him a big hand!

 

[BlueCanoe]

Just out of curiousity's (?) sake -- what was the average % increase in hourly compensation rates alone at both Mesa & CHQ?

I can't answer for Mesa, but I got a $6k raise. According to IBT, the average is 7.5%. Most pilots were hired 99 on.

Soft compensation:
Female Preventative Check ups are covered
Male preventative check ups are covered
Child wellness is covered
Vision Insurance
401(k) match is improved and tied to longevity
Medicals are paid for


Other (What I see as pluses):
Stricter scheduling rules for RSV (not much, but it's a improvement)
Move to pref. bidding (I hope it works as well as TWA's old system)
Improved displacement expenses
Improved travel benefits (yet to be seen)
Commuter Policy

Probably some other stuff too. I can't remember off the top of my head.


Oh yea, a new scope clause. It keeps all of our parent's flying on one pilot seniority list. (FYI, the are starting this company called Republic in SDF. Keep an ear out for it. They've put some serious Cake in it.)

 

[FDJ2]

A regional pilot's job is easy. It is ridiculously easy. Making over $50,000/year (3rd year capt.) is quite a bit of money to be making.

Obviously the level of responsibility and professionalism demanded of the job has escaped you. In which case, you are not worth $50,000/year and you should probably not be allowed anywhere near a commercial jetliner.

 

[brew3departure]

My last thoughts on the issue...

I need not restate what I already said, except to again re-iterate to flyr - there must be a lot of pilots walking around with no self respect...let's see, refer to my first post. We are respectless - and we all know that if we had all interviewed and been hired at CoEx - we'd have self respect...give me a break. The best you can come up with is, you don't even work for CHQ, you don't like the contract, and all of us aren't even worthy of our own respect? Last time I checked, self respect was just that - something determined by your_self_. I may not be the sharpest pencil in the box, but I think I know on my own if I respect myself. And, just to hazard a guess here, I have a feeling that most, if not all, of the CHQ pilots - they probably have a pretty good idea day to day if they can respect themselves too. I'm going out on a big limb, there, but I think that's probably true. I'm not going to change your mind, but step away from that for just a minute and think about how ludicrous that sounds. Everyone that I've flown with had self respect. Or at least it seemed like they did.

CHQ isn't ALPA. The airline that I used to fly for was ALPA. Guess what it got me - furloughed several times and concessions for the pilots that still remain. ALPA/IBT/whatever - it's not about the organization, it's about _the people_. A union is a union - they exist for the same purpose, they've all been around a lot longer than I have. Anyone who thinks ALPA is the magic bullet, talk to any of the wholly owned Airways bunch. And, quite honestly, if a company is in dire financial straits, how is being ALPA vs. some other union going to make a darn bit of difference? Not that I had a dog in the fight, but ALPA was voted _down_ at Commutair and Chicago Express in the last year. Am I an ALPA hater? No - I'm not. I'm not one, though, to think that ALPA will lead the exodus to our salvation, either.

And yes, I do agree - pilots worked very hard to bring the payscales and the work rules up to what they were today. I'm not blind to that. Always strive for what's better than what you had - keep increasing. It appears to me that the folks at CHQ have done that.

I'll say it again - best of luck to you guys at CoEx - but watch out, at least, watch out in cyberspace. You guys have been talking a huge game for a while, and if that ink hits the paper and it's not everything you guys have said, prepare for a firestorm. And you know what? If you guys think it's a good contract, sign it. Because you'll learn soon enough that there are nay-sayers out there who don't even work for your company who will bash it and cry out on forums like these that "CoEx sold out, they're going to destroy aviation and the pilot profession." You know why? Because maybe you got ComAir + 5 and some nimrod wanted ComAir + 10. Sound familiar, guys? Best of luck to you though - all I can wish is that you do the best you can for your company. If that's better than CHQ or better than ComAir, my hat is off to you all.

 

[GearDwnFlaps15]

Man am I going to love it when all of these sanctimonious ExpJet blowhards don't get the contract that "raises the bar" and we can all slam THEM.

Go ahead, EJ, make a liar out of me. It's easy to slam Mesa/CHQ/whomever, but I don't think you have the cojones... and I look forward to the result.

You know, I won't waste my time bashing the CHQ/Mesa contract. I'll never have to work under it. But I will tell you (CHQ/Mesa) this: Sharpen your pencils and get ready to take notes 'cause what you said above 'ain't never gonna happen'. Feel free to print this post and save it for the appropriate time.

 

[I.P. Freley]

Like I said... By all means, go prove me wrong.

I just don't think it will happen. I've been reading on here for two years that y'all won't "bend over" when your contract is renegotiated, I am just keen to see what you end up with.

I don't wish you a bad contract of course, some of my friends are subject to it and I want to see them do well. It's just a few select individuals on this board who seem to be making the most noise and pointing the most fingers, so you'd BETTER pull something amazing out your hat.

Like someone said above, ya talk a good game.... I guess we'll see, huh?

 

[jumppilot]

Obviously the level of responsibility and professionalism demanded of the job has escaped you. In which case, you are not worth $50,000/year and you should probably not be allowed anywhere near a commercial jetliner.

Actually it hasn't. What I think is good pay, other people disagree with.

Like someone said above, there will always be someone who wanted Comair + 10 when your contract is Comair + 5.

I was talking to a captain the other day (4th year captain) who makes a little over $55,000/yr and he was happy as a clam. He told me he was making more money than he's ever made and has his bills paid and money left over for his kids. He was a happy camper.

So just because I don't think getting paid 1 million dollars per leg isn't enough, doesn't mean I'm not a professional....What about the dudes flying a JS31 for $25,000/yr? Man, I wouldn't want to get into their cockpit, they don't know what professional wages are! They must be dangerous!

FDJ2, that was a terrible argument.

This is the last you'll see of me on this thread, as I now remember why I don't post on flightinfo. I'm going to take my 'crappy' contract and go fishing. Maybe you all should do the same.

 

[TOGA]

For whoever it was that called me an "idiot" for the Scab implication: go back and re-read my post, you'll see that I was comparing the 'I don't care what anyone thinks, I'm happy' mentality, not necessarily the fact that they voted yes on that TA. It is, in fact, the same exact mentality. Mr Hat, you're right about towing the line, regardless of the specific union. Do you guys realize that, in real dollars, today's best paid pilots make less than one third what they did 30 years ago? We must have the self-respect, as professional airmen, to stop the slide. If not for our own good, then for that of those who follow. As for the 'why not point the finger at SWA, ATA, AirTran, etc.' argument. Do you realize how much the pilots for some of those carriers make. A topped-out SWA CA will make $200/hr next year . . . in a 737! Still less than our brethren of decades past, but at least it's going the right direction. I will admit to sounding a bit inflammatory in my initial post, and for that I apologize. I just can't believe it passed at all, much less by 95%. We're all worth so much more. As for the guy who thinks we're already paid enough . . . I'm not even sure how to respond to such tripe. See my above reference to real dollars, I guess. Lastly, for the ExJet pilot who posted here that we may have set our sights too high: yes, some have . . . if the yoke caps are to be believed. My 'minimum acceptable raise percentage' is somewhere near the raise that came with Contract '97. That, scope, retirement, and work rules improvements. I'm quite confident it wouldn't break the bank.

 

[Air Biscuit]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**aqua pilots aren't worth a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** obviously or they wouldn't settle with a 95% approval of their first ta know less. I can't believe even the teamsters could put a peice of crap like that out. That contract is already 7 years outdated. Thanks alot from the rest of the industry. Obviously you guys can't do anything else besides fly and spank your monkey.

 

[BlueCanoe]

**CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED**aqua pilots aren't worth a **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** obviously or they wouldn't settle with a 95% approval of their first ta know less. I can't believe even the teamsters could put a peice of crap like that out. That contract is already 7 years outdated. Thanks alot from the rest of the industry. Obviously you guys can't do anything else besides fly and spank your monkey.

Who let Timmy at the computer terminal?? Somebody up his thorazine, and re-attach his helmet STAT!!!

PS. It was our 2nd TA. I'm sure you already knew that, being so smart and all.

 

[TWAER]

TOGA, how much should we get paid at CHQ? You know, it is funny to read some of this crap. I know some of you wrote just a few months ago that whatever you do guy and girls at CHQ, don't let Republic get off the ground. If it cost you all pay, so be it. So what if you get paid more because in two years, your jobs will be gone. Taken by RP and we are out of work.... Remember all that crap? You know TOGA, If we were offered twice as much across the board in the TA, but RP was allowed to start up, I would put my house on the fact that the TA would have failed. End of Story. I would have voted NO and I every person I have flown with in the past two months would have voted NO. Stopping RP was the main focus of this TA. Were we played by BB and WH? Maybe, but what pilot group isn't being played right now. Who knows, maybe this is part of a bigger plan by BB and we are just along for the ride. I don't have the "big picture". Tell me someone who does. We have a lot of Non CHQ people on here who don't have any part of the picture. There is always going to be those who will call us sell outs. Show me your new TA when it comes out and I am sure I can find thing that are not as good as what we just got. Who gives a crap if you are paid the highest wages in the industry if your QOL is $hit. Maybe you will get 8 or 10 days off a month, but that's OK, you're making more than us. To me, YOU will be the sell out because you have just lowered the bar in my view.

Let's not forget, all airline management comes from the same tree. Just wait until they try to form a new airline behind your back or in front of your face. Hey, we'll give you a big raise, but you know, we're going to start a new "low cost" airline to help us compete. Where do you think your jobs will be in 5 years? But you know, pay is more important. Your jobs won't really go to the alter ego carrier. Or will they. Will you gamble and take that chance? Maybe you will. Maybe you won't.


Oh BTW Air Turd, Second TA. Get back into class, third period is about to start

 

[MJG]

Soft compensation:
Female Preventative Check ups are covered
Male preventative check ups are covered
Child wellness is covered
Vision Insurance
401(k) match is improved and tied to longevity
Medicals are paid for


Other (What I see as pluses):
Stricter scheduling rules for RSV (not much, but it's a improvement)
Move to pref. bidding (I hope it works as well as TWA's old system)
Improved displacement expenses
Improved travel benefits (yet to be seen)
Commuter Policy

Probably some other stuff too. I can't remember off the top of my head.


Oh yea, a new scope clause. It keeps all of our parent's flying on one pilot seniority list. (FYI, the are starting this company called Republic in SDF. Keep an ear out for it. They've put some serious Cake in it.)

Some Q's about the CHQ TA:

Do you have to use a company approved AME to have the medicals paid for?

Did you guys want Pref Bidding or was it the company that pushed for it?