CHQ passes by 95%!

[StarChecker]

Amen.

And to the rest of you: I, nor the rest of us here at CHQ, could give two $hits about what you think about our contract.

Ditto

 

[Mr Hat]

Are the pilots of ExpressJet the only ones in this industry who see that getting paid E145 pay to fly something the size of Americans F100 is BULLSH*T!

Not only that but current E145 and CL65 payscales are so significantly lower than ANY other Jet pilots pay in the airline industry, Corporate industry or any other **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** industry on this planet that uses jets?!?

If we ever want to fix the current E145 pay issue, and regardless of you're future dreams of 747s at United, E145 pay is a big issue, then WE, THE PILOTS OF THOSE AIRPLANES NEED TO STAND UP AND SAY ENOUGH IS ENOUGH!!
You aint going anywhere for a while, better fix what you can count on.....Never mind, we'll do it for you.
GO ExpressJet!

 

[Cracker]

So...we should immediately demand $156 captain's rate an hour?

 

[Mesa Lifer]

Don't worry guys, you did what you had to do. All of the big talkers on this board obviously have no clue what it is like to be bent over by your management and get backed into a corner. They would do the same thing. Hopefully everything works out for you guys.

From one pilot group over the barrel to the other....


-ML

 

[TOGA]

So, you guys don't have the sack to vote against that POS that hurts all of us, but you have enough to come on here & defend yourselves by spouting 'I don't care what anyone else thinks' BS. Continental could've USED a few "good" pilots like you back in the early '80s. From my wife, my kids, and myself . . . thanks bunches. It's all right, we'll take care of it ourselves. You guys enjoy that contract, now.

 

[ERJpusher]

i'm not trying to defend anything... I really don't care what you think.

Stress must really be getting to you FDBs at CoEx. I didn't really hear anything from you guys for the longest time and now all I see is slander. I used to be supportive of your negotiations, but now I could care less.

 

[Cracker]

I'm rubber, you'r glue...

Just hope I don't meet you on an overnight in a hotel bar. Get a life, brother.

 

[ERJpusher]

I bet my average salary for my career at CHQ will be much higher than at CoEx. How many decades until upgrade at CoEx? Everyone on our current seniority list will probably be captains in 2 years. I'd rather be getting captain pay quickly than FO pay forever.

 

[brew3departure]

It goes on and on and on...(and on)

If you're going to point fingers, where does it stop? Do you point fingers at Airtran, SWA and JetBlue? Or, how about ATA - if memory serves, their 737 pilots don't make as much as their counterparts at United, Airways or Delta.

Looking at the traffic on this board over the last two years, it's filled with posts by many people who want to work for these companies. Myself included, one day. According to most of the logic I've seen on this thread, though, these four companies are the anti-christ, right? Lowering pilot salaries, or, pardon me, lowering the almighty _bar_ for everyone.

For those of you who aren't pointing your finger there, you point at Mesa, or CHQ, or Trans States, or Skywest. What about Skyway? Their pilots took concessions and their F/O's are at the absolute bottom of the payscale, only above Great Lakes. But, hey, they were at the bottom of the scale _before_ concessions. Shut the place down, go on strike. All 220 of them are *hit for brains, for _not_ doing that, I guess...

Or, the darling of the regional airline industry - Air Wisconsin. Best contract, best work rules, best pay rates...guess what - your major partner is in trouble, and thus, concessions for you guys too.

Do I wish concessions on anyone? Do I want anyone to get furloughed? Absolutely not! Do I give a *amn about what the ERJ driver at CoEx is making versus what I am? Personally, I don't. It's none of my ****amn business what you make. And to the CoEx pilots - best of luck to you. You know, I really do hope you get an industry leading contract. If you do, the peanut gallery on Flightinfo will do nothing but stroke your ego and sing your praises - each day you put the uniform on, you can be assured that you and you alone are among the best pilots in the industry, and that you have single-handedly saved the aviation industry as we know it.

Come on. Please. Everybody wants to get to the next level. And for those who don't, they want to be well compensated for their years of service. You can rinse and repeat that for any skilled labor job, not just aviation.

Each situation at each airline is different. I don't like the Mesa contract, I don't like the fact that it has 8 days off, I don't like the pay rates. Answer me this, though - if Mesa votes _down_ their infamous contract, all of the terminated CCAir pilots are still on unemployment - yes or no? And don't let me speak for them, perhaps the CCAir pilots hate the new Mesa contract, I don't know...but they do have their jobs back. All of you who are so quick to bash Mesa, perhaps you should think about it from this perspective.

Whoever the idiot was who said that Continental could have used a few pilots like us in the 80's - quite a bold statement. Did you think of that all by yourself? Any time you bring in the "s" word, you're playing with fire. I absolutely fail to see how that has any relevance here, but ... you said it, I didn't. Do you feel better now, having said that?

And to the other nimrod quoting Transportation Security Adminstration payrates - thank you, sir, for clarifying that. If I had been a party to that vital piece of information, trust me in that I would tried to sway the votes of CHQ pilots - "Wait, you're not going to make as much as that screener there - vote the contract down." Childish.

Reading crap like this angers me in the same way that "stealing routes" does. The mere existence of regional airlines at all is where that all started - but that's for a different thread.

The folks at CHQ got raises. They managed to stop Freedom II, and got major bennies in health and some work rule improvements. It was not concessionary. End of story.

Anyone who disagrees, that's what makes this country great, and for the record, I still don't give a *amn what you're making. If you're making more than I am, good for you. I really do mean that.

-brew3

 

[BlueCanoe]

Why is it that pilots of "Wholly-owned subsidiaries" are bashing?

Let's look at one thing. When you were "Acquired", why weren't you integrated? NWA bought Republic, I don't see any DC-9's running around with "Operated by Republic" on them. I don't see any US Airways 767's with a "Operated by Piedmont". I don't see any AA MD-80's with a "Operated by Reno Airlines" or "Operated by TWA". I don't see any Delta 737-800 (or 727's) out of the MAT at LGA with "Operated by Eastern". Yet I see plenty of "Comair", "ASA", "Eagle" "Continental Express by Express Jet", "Piedmont", "Allegheny", etc.

Do I have to go on? You nay-sayers, who appear all to fly for "Wholly-owned Subsidiaries" (yet I can be wrong, as I'm sure you'll point out), talk of cojones. YOU (yes I'm calling you out, you cheap shot artists) don't have the balls to force integration. You are lowering the bar, if I may say so. We are CHQ/MESA/TSA/SkyW or whoever. You are Delta, USAirways, Continental and American Employees. You allowed your company to create a C scale. If you work for a "wholly-owned subsidiary", you dropped the bar, Chuck.

We should quit our jobs? You should quit yours. Your parent company gives you good money and good bennies (in comparison to other regional operations), because they know most of you will go somewhere else. If you don't leave, you will never get to the other part of the company. They give you hush money, and keep you off the mainline seniority list.

You guys are sad. You did accomplish something, though. You won the race to the bottom. Not of your "peers", but to the bottom of your company. You are doing the same work as other people in similar positions at your company, but are treated as substandard. You will not ever change that. It's too late. At least at the independents, there is one list, one contract.

 

[Mr Hat]

I used to be supportive of your negotiations, but now I could care less.

Why bother, you're crappy contract is already signed.

I bet my average salary for my career at CHQ will be much higher than at CoEx. How many decades until upgrade at CoEx? Everyone on our current seniority list will probably be captains in 2 years. I'd rather be getting captain pay quickly than FO pay forever.

HA! You JUST caught up with our current contract! It wasnt you're 50 seat pay rates that floored me as much as your 90-100 seat pay. How many seats does a 737-500 have? Do you even know? Why are you less of a pilot that you deserve LESS than HALF what a 737-500 guy makes? You're not! Thats the point, you deserve to be on par with other guys doing the SAME job with the SAME **CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED****CENSORED** seats for crying out loud! Cant you see that? The 50 seat pay SHOULD be 737 pay interpolated down to 50 seats, not BE1900 pay with 50 seats! We arent even going to get that much but we will at least TRY to get a little closer, the airplane can support it. We arent into destroying our company with excessive pay but we want what is fair! We love our company and we want to be successful however we are sick of being pawns to the rest of the industries "Wage Fare Wars" which is what it has become in the last 5 years.

Just hope I don't meet you on an overnight in a hotel bar. Get a life, brother.

THIS guy is going to be a Captain in 2 years? Sheesh, leave the threats out of it and debate like an adult.

If you're going to point fingers, where does it stop? Do you point fingers at Airtran, SWA and JetBlue? Or, how about ATA - if memory serves, their 737 pilots don't make as much as their counterparts at United, Airways or Delta.

That is completly different, that's competition. The issue at the "Regional" level is that major airline managements are working together to whipsaw groups against eachother in order to rachet down wages that simply go into the upper managements pockets. They are OUTSOURCING jet flying that SHOULD be at the major (Savings #1) to the LOWEST bidding regional (savings #2) knowing full well that WE know that if we sign off on a lower paying contract, we wont loose our flying. It is a scare tactic pure and simple. Besides, ATA, Airtran, JetBlue and SWA do not get paid NEARLY as low as we do when you compair their pay to other jet pilots pay. I'd also venture to say that most of those guys except Aitran are paid differently than pilots at other carriers so while it appears that their pay is lower if you look simply at hourly wages, they are actually paid industry average pay when you look at other perks such as time and a half for flying over 70 hours (JetBlue) or if you calculate "Trip Pay" to hourly pay (SWA). Plus all the profit sharing and bonuses....you wind up being compairable to the other majors. We at ExpressJet feel the same way, I dont need to be paid the HIGHEST in the industry, I just want whats fair and right now pay at the regionals is not fair. Its not about being better than the CHQ pilots or even the Mesa pilots, its about being on the same page.

 

[Mr Hat]

Do I have to go on? You nay-sayers, who appear all to fly for "Wholly-owned Subsidiaries" (yet I can be wrong, as I'm sure you'll point out), talk of cojones. YOU (yes I'm calling you out, you cheap shot artists) don't have the balls to force integration. You are lowering the bar, if I may say so. We are CHQ/MESA/TSA/SkyW or whoever. You are Delta, USAirways, Continental and American Employees. You allowed your company to create a C scale. If you work for a "wholly-owned subsidiary", you dropped the bar, Chuck.

Okay, when we were bought by CAL, we were IACP...no ALPA merger policy and at the time we didnt have any jets, they were operated as seperate companies so there was no integration and the ALPA merger policy wouldnt have worked anyway. When we did become operationally integrated we were in the process of voting in ALPA, we were trying for a Single Seniority List also. We got snubbed by our union who said "Just get ALPA on property and we will get the SSL after" Well, it never happened. The Scabs at Continental decided that Express caused the ALPA merger and started a war on us trying to kick us out of the CAL MEC because they were pissed about ALPA. It took a while but we finally squashed that one, then it was time to get going on the SSL again....CAL sells ExpressJet off and makes it 10 times harder, we are no longer a part of CAL and the FTA is terminated (recently, we were IPO'd a while ago but CAL still retained controlling interest which is why so many CAL pilots flowed back to Express)

Our Negotiating committee tried to work out a way for a single list recently but found that we do not have the support to get it (The CAL side is interested in their retirement, not a single list) so we are not going for it. We ARE though trying for an ENHANCED Flow through agreement, that will hopefully bridge the gap and maybe in the future we can achieve a single list.
I've been involved in the integration fight for quite a while. I think Comair did an outstanding job and got snuffed by the Delta MEC and ALPA National. They are operationally integrated but ALPA found that they wernt. I guess its a matter of opinion.

What have you done?

 

[BlueCanoe]

What have you done?

Laugh. I don't work for a "Wholly-Owned Subsidiary". I love how ya'll get in our grill, yet everytime this comes up, I hear the same excuses with no results why wholly-owned's aren't integrated. Heard it with USAir Express, Eagle and DCI WO. Same story, no results.

Knock my contract. Knock my company. I may be a 3rd class citizen to you, but my company treats us all the same. We don't have a "Basement Division" for pilots, FA's or rampers.

I'm on my company's A-Scale. Are you?

 

[Mesa Lifer]

Brew 3, awesome post. Unfortunately the 'hotheads' on this thread will never see the light. I for one would love for us to all stick together throughout the industry but when your OWN personal livelihood is threatened by the likes of Freedom or whatever force, you'd be suprised what you'll swallow. And we at Mesa never get the credit for saving some of our own (the CCAir gang). And for those of you that say they would have rather been on the street than take our Sh!tty contract, how come most of them are back at work at Mesa?

We did our part, and CHQ did theirs. Funny to me how the guys screaming the loudest at how Mesa and CHQ have screwed the industry were also the first to take concessions. Why not just shut the company down and grow some balls like we should have at Mesa? "But we had to vote it in because of Mesa!" Well, we had to vote in our POS to get the CCAir guys back and stop Freedom.

Funny to me how the loud mouths here cannot see that and just resort to bashing. Little do you guys realize how stupid you make yourselves look.

Just my two cents.

-ML

 

[GFunk20]

Guys, come on, give it up.

CHQ is a done deal now. There is no changing anything, Lets move forward.