Chemtrails: holiday update

[Denver130]

ignorant people or stupid people

My friend the Typhoon, said this about the kind of people who are watching chemtrails.

"To the ill-informed, uneducated, ignorant people (and there are a lot of them) out there, many things look strange and unusual. This doesn't mean their observations warrant closer attention."

My response is this:

1. Very intelligent people are looking at this closely. In a USA Today article entitled "Conspiracy theories find menace in contrails", they quote retired a retired nuclear quality engineer from Bartlett, N.H named Philip Marie Sr about chemtrails above her community.

Are nuclear quality engineers stupid?
Are the chemical engineers at Conoco stupid?
Are computer people like me stupid and ignorant of the facts?
Are we as Typhoon says "ill-informed uneducated ignorant people"?

The obvious answer is NO! 100 percent NO! You'd have to be pretty gullible to believe that.

 

[ms6073]

Denver130,

This is not contrail related but I think you would be very interesting in this: The Time Travel Tale of John Titor - maybe you could help him resolve the 2038 Unix bug!

More information on the 2038 Unix Bug

 

[Denver130]

mis-representing the facts

My friend the Typhoon has claimed that I mis-represent the facts. Is this true? NO

In fact, he paid me a complement because he realizes that I am giving you the facts. Facts are facts.

Jet contrails physics facts:

1. They occur in temperatures of -40 and below
2. They need humidity to the point of saturation (80 percent or more)
3. They occur at high altitudes (why? because that’s where those temperatures can be found)

Here's your test question: If the pilot says the altitude of the clouds is 2,000ft, should you be seeing jet contrails below the clouds? NO

What did you see X patterns, massive grids, long lasting trails all below cloud level

Should they be there? NO

On an average day in Grand Rapids will you see that type of jet activity? NO

What is the answer that the FAA gives you when you call and complain? "Those are just normal jet contrails"

Does that make sense? NO

Is there any other explanation for it? YES

What is it? Chemtrails

Is there any evidence or documentation that would lead you to believe that the government is involved in this? YES

Can you name an official document that mentions this activity? YES

What is it? HR2977

Who wrote it? Dennis Kucinich

Is he a conspiracy theorist? NO

What is he? A presidential candidate from Ohio

Did Rep Kucinich give any other public indication that this program exists? YES he told the Columbus Alive newspaper that despite official denial, it does exist.

Is there any other documentation about this issue? YES

Where? the web

How much? Enough to fill 15 romance novels with 1,000 pages each. Many contain electronic photos, temperature, humidly, and altitude readings, ground samples, water samples, letters to government officials and more.

Have people called the FAA about this issue? YES

How many? USA Today, a leading paper reports:

"Federal bureaucracies have gotten thousands of phone calls, e-mails and letters in recent years from people demanding to know what is being sprayed and why." (Did you catch the word THOUSANDS)

Does the government have a history of covert spray programs in which they have sprayed cities under the guise of weapons testing? YES

Am I mis-representing the facts? NO

The facts are facts.

You have to decide if they are true or false.

By the way, how did Area 51 get discovered after the government said it didn't exist for years?

On the Discovery Channel of all places I found the answer. Employees were burning toxic substances in trenches and came down sick. They proceeded to sue the government for medical benefits. The government with boldness, flatly denied the existence of Area 51 or that they worked for the government. But a lawyer learned that you can find satellite photography on the web and pulled those photos of the area. In the photos are buildings and the trenches that the chemicals were burned in. Who owned those buildings do you think? You guessed it! The government. Did the employees get their jobs back? Yes! Did they get additional medical benefits to cover their illnesses? Yes! Do we now know there’s an top secret base in Nevada called Area 51? YES

Maybe you pilots should watch TV more!

 

[bart]

Denver, everyone on this board except you is a pilot. We all have real world, up close experience and knowledge of contrails and what they are. You will fare much better at getting people to buy your guff on a message board where less well-informed people congregate.

You are wasting your time here. It has been fun to play on your ignorance, but your blind persistence is moving toward the realm of stupidity, and that is not so entertaining. So go play with the other wackos somewhere else, maybe Art Bell has a chatroom for you...

 

[Typhoon1244]

Denver, instead of mis-quoting me, answer the friggin' question: if your understanding of the atmosphere is correct, then fog should not exist, condensation should not form behind automobiles on cold days, and you should never be able to "see your breath" on a cold day. According to your "facts," these phenomena can not happen.

Why do they?

 

[Typhoon1244]

Well, I see he logged off. Confront these chemtrail guys with logic, and they skitter off into the shadows.

It's bad enough that Denver is ignorant. It's bad enough that he's a liar. He's also a coward.

Or, as I suggested before, he's a paranoid-schizophrenic, which would cover all three traits.

 

[Eagleflip]

Denver130 wrote:

What is it? HR2977

HEY DENVER! Look up HR 2977 on any search engine for the House.

It's a BABY DIAPER CHANGING PROVISION....

Look it up. Prove me wrong. Show me a quote and verifiable link for Dennis Kucinich on the subject.

Now, I'm not going to say that there are no foreign or evil chemicals in baby diapers. In fact, I'd say there is, given my olfactory experiences with two young and "productive" youngsters...

Now, go back to your chemtrail weblog and convince others of weak mind willing to purchase your bovine scatology. We trained pilots, the ones who are supposedly involved, are no longer amused by your gross inaccuracies and distortions of physical laws.

Go away. I'm not even entertained.

 

[transienttorque]

I heard Area 51 is a cover for Area 52.

 

[Eagleflip]

And of course Area 52 is a cover for Area 5....wait...don't say it outloud...

 

[414Flyer]

Re: mis-representing the facts

Maybe you pilots should watch TV more!

HAAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHHHHAHAHAHAHAH

Well, seeing as we are the ones that do flew up and down thru your lower altitudes, and no one here has ever seen low altitude trails, well maybe you should spend more time away from the TV and away from chemtrail websites.

You are trying to twist peoples disbelief of your 2000 ft trails into them calling the CAL pilot a liar. No such things, they are telling you that those 2000ft trails dont exist.

And if there were clouds at 2000 ft, doesnt that go against your belief that clouds form between 5000 and 10000 ft?

 

[ShawnC]

All joking aside.

As a pilot that generally remains in 8,000 ft AGL to ground, including alot of time in terminal areas I have yet to see a contrail that low.

 

[mattfish42]

I just have to add this:

I grew up in a relatively small town where Conoco was the major employer. I have known several Conoco engineers. They ain't any brighter than the rest of us "normal" folk.

 

[enigma]

Well, I see he logged off. Confront these chemtrail guys with logic, and they skitter off into the shadows.

It's bad enough that Denver is ignorant. It's bad enough that he's a liar. He's also a coward.

Or, as I suggested before, he's a paranoid-schizophrenic, which would cover all three traits.

Typhoon,
Do you really believe that this guy is legit? Two to one, he's just a pilot laughing his behind off.

regards,
enigma

 

[Typhoon1244]

Typhoon,
Do you really believe that this guy is legit?

Sadly, yes, I think he's for real. (Or maybe I should say he thinks he's for real...)

Originally posted by ShawnC
As a pilot that generally remains in 8,000 ft AGL to ground, including alot of time in terminal areas I have yet to see a contrail that low.

Depends on what part of the world you're in. You're right though, for the most part they're rare below 8,000.

The trouble is that Denver130, a "chemical engineer" with no background in aviation, believes he can look up and tell you how high a contrail or a cloud is just by eyeballing it. You're a pilot, Shawn. Think you can do that? Hell, I saw the space shuttle going over at Mach 20 and a hundred miles (or whatever)and mistook it for a 747 at FL410. The extremes of speed and altitude and the width of the debris trail threw my perception off.

So if I, a professional pilot, can misjudge the height of a contrail, how much luck does Denver have?

Remember him ranting about Area 51? He's nuts.

 

[Denver130]

weather statistics

Who would I call to get the days statistics on cloud altitude, air temp and humidity?

 

[Denver130]

reasons

Jet contrail physics is a science. From what I can tell its been well studied and well documented. Anybody with a brain and can read and is not a pilot can discuss it intellegently.

Why is the pilots answer so troubling to many of you? I was just walking out of the jet, he was standing by the cockpit and all I asked him were a few simple questions (not once did I mention chemtrails).

1. How high are the clouds today? The bottom is around 2,000ft ant the top is around 4,000ft.
2. What was our crusing altitude today? 33,000 ft
3. What was the temperature outside at that altitude? -47 degrees. (by the way, this is normal and fits NASA and NOAA's conditions for jet contrails...30,000 plus feet and -40 or colder temp)

Then I left, collected my bags, stepped outside and looked up (something you haven't done in a while) and what did I see?

If I take the pilots response at face value what do I have? Were those jet contrails in the sky at 2,000ft? NO

Now I know some of you are going to question the truthfullness of that pilot right? How dare he discuss aviation to someone who is not in the pilots club! Or.. doesn't Denver know that the clouds jumped to 33,000ft when he walked out the door so those trails he saw were actually jet contrails? And why are you taking us pilots to task over those X's and grid patterns anyway. Do you have a BA degree in pilotology? Increased jet traffic will make those lines every time! Denver, your just smoking dope. Smoke real grass (the green grass in your back yard).

The fact is that the pilot gave me a reference point on altitude. With that, you can determine if the trail fits the definition of a jet contrail.

Guys, this doesn't take rocket science. It takes simple observations, a few reference points and simple math. Even 'non-pilots" like me can figure this one out.

 

[Swass]

Do you think pilots could keep the chemtrail secret this long? Not any pilot I know. Just go to where they hang out, buy 'em a beer or two and they'll tell you everything you want to know (trust me, they love to talk about themselves ). Stop wasting our time.

 

[Typhoon1244]

Re: reasons

Denver, your just smoking dope.

Aha! Now we're getting somewhere!

Denver, if you're serious about this, you need help. Badly. Do a web search and find a pyschologist or psychiatrist in your area and seek their guidance.

We've told you the truth. You're ignoring it...just like you're still ignoring my questions about fog!

You don't want to hear the truth. So what's the point?

Keep your crap off this board!

 

[414Flyer]

Re: reasons

If I take the pilots response at face value what do I have? Were those jet contrails in the sky at 2,000ft? NO

Now I know some of you are going to question the truthfullness of that pilot right? How dare he discuss aviation to someone who is not in the pilots club! Or.. doesn't Denver know that the clouds jumped to 33,000ft when he walked out the door so those trails he saw were actually jet contrails? And why are you taking us pilots to task over those X's and grid patterns anyway. Do you have a BA degree in pilotology? Increased jet traffic will make those lines every time! Denver, your just smoking dope. Smoke real grass (the green grass in your back yard).

The fact is that the pilot gave me a reference point on altitude. With that, you can determine if the trail fits the definition of a jet contrail.

You are getting very predictable now, since I typed earlier

"You are trying to twist peoples disbelief of your 2000 ft trails into them calling the CAL pilot a liar. No such things, they are telling you that those 2000ft trails dont exist. "

And then you do that exact thing.

The captain did not make any chemtrail comments. He just gave you the ceiling for the clouds.

You keep twisting our disbelief of your chemtrails into something against the CAL pilot, which no one has done. Its YOU who we dont believe, nor do we believe your contrail under the clouds.

The circular logic of the chemmies is astounding.
1. Chemmies see contrails, assume grand governement spraying conspiracy.
2. Chemmies lobby Kucinich to include term "Chemtrails"
3. Kucinich includes the word in a house bill. Doesnt really know what it is, but takes constituents word for it.
4. Chemmies claim mention of chemtrails is PROOF! Even though it was themselves that lobbied to have it included.

Denver logic.
1. Thinks he sees trails below clouds.
2. Asks CAL pilot about cloud ceiling. Gets 2000 ft as reply.
3. Says that is proof of government spraying chemtrails.
4. People think Denver is paranoid, loony, and didnt see trails under the clouds.
5. Denver asks why we call CAL pilot liar.

 

[uscpilot]

Re: ignorant people or stupid people

Are nuclear quality engineers stupid?
Are the chemical engineers at Conoco stupid?
Are computer people like me stupid and ignorant of the facts?

I cant asses the overall intelligence. However, unless they are pilots or perhaps a degree in meterology then they are ignorant an the area of aviation and meteorolgical phenonoma. Having
a degree, or an area of expertise does not qualify an individual as an expert in unrealated fields. I cant speak for others but I am not going on nuclear or chemical engineer chat rooms and saying "I am a pilot that watches the Discovery Channel and read Scientific American. Therefore I am intelligent." I would then chemical engineers from conoco for poisioning the enviroment with all the pollution coming from your refineries.
Quit quoting some anynomus CAL pilot. You claim to be intelligent, find temp aloft data to accompany you contrail/"chemtrail" photos. Also include actual altitude information for the aircraft in question. There are web sites find them. I will not give you the number for Flight Service as you would waste the flight briefer's time, and delay an actual pilot from getting necessary information.
By your rational I could take pictures of the smoke coming from one of your refineries blowing over a families house. I could then blame your company for all the family's ilnesses. Would I have any actual scientific proof? No, but I would have alot of circumstancial evidence, that has alot more value than the stuff you keep giving us.
Why dont you try answering our questions? Not just misinterprations from the NOAA, or NASA, but actually use your brain. We have answered yours, just not to your liking.
If this is so important save some money and charter a plane on a day that you see these low altitude contrails/"chemtrails". If they are as low as you say you would only need a little single engine cessna. Call a flight school and just tell them you want to do an introductory flight of an 1 or 2. It should cost less than $200. See for your self what we have been telling you all along. Heck you might like it, get hooked, and obtain your private liscence.
usc