Chemtrails: holiday update

[Loafman]

Why do you guys even indulge this moron? I say the next chemtrail post gets zero replies and zero views.

On another subject, does anyone know how to get neuro-poly-ehtyl-zolo-amide off your shoes? I was walking under the spray nozzle doing my preflight and stepped in some. It's like bubble gum with a carcinogenic twist.

 

[Denver130]

Quit quoting some anynomus CAL pilot.

Quit quoting some anynomus CAL pilot. -USCPILOT

The question is really this. Is the pilot reliable or not?

My answer is yes. Why?

1. He flew through the clouds.
2. He had instruments to gage it.
3. He flies to Grand Rapids often.
4. He has no reason to lie unless he "saw me comin"!
5. He is not a chemical engineer, nuclear physisist, or other intelligent person I have named already. He is a PILOT. One of your kind

If he is reliable, then there is no reason to disbelieve him.

Then we can assume that the trails in those photos

http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/Thanksgiving03a.html

are not at 30,000ft plus where normal jet contrails form. Therefore there is validity in what I've said.

I'm surprised that you don't believe him.

Believe it or not, you can get altitude data on the web. Since Michigan is a very cloudy state most of the year, its the perfect region to monitor chemtrails. Once you establish low altitude clouds, you have a reference point for altitiude. Once you snap a picture, you have electonic evidence. Once you go to the daily news, you can get temperature and humidity.

This really isn't very complex. This is plain scientific observation and documentation.

What is the real problem? The facts.

The facts don't bear out what you are saying. Thats why you keep looking for more.

I'm surprised one of you pilots doesn't take a note pad and evaluate the facts. You have more access to altitude, temperature and humidity than I do. All I have is the web, a camera, pilots testamonys when I can get them, a federal document listing chemtrials, a public declaration from Kucinich that they exist, thousands of electronic photos, air and water sample tests posted on the web ect.

That's all I have.

I can ignore it,
Turn a blind eye to it,
Not question pilots about it,
Not discuss it with concerned citizens,
Discount pilots testamonys,
Ignore books written about it
Look down at the ground and not at the sky.
Call my photos normal looking.

But you'd have to a rock or a bump on a log.

 

[Denver130]

Houston cloud cover

As I begin to search statistics on clouds here in Houston, I'm finding that altitude of 2,000ft is not uncommon.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[T-Gates]

Re: Quit quoting some anynomus CAL pilot.

5. He is not a chemical engineer, nuclear physisist, or other intelligent person I have named already. He is a PILOT. One of your kind

Oh, now we aren't intelligent? Well F U C K you, chemtrail douchebag. Next time I'm in GRR I will spray your family directly.

I agree with Loafman, lets forget this moron, he needs to get back on his meds.

 

[Blue Dude]

Denver,

From your own site:

On Thursday, 12/18/03 at 4:49PM
66F degrees
27% humidity in the air
Location: Highway 6 and Richmond
Houston, Texas

What is the likely hood of jet contrails in Houston with the temp and humidity above? Nill

What you don't know about meteorology is boundless. A lot of people on this site have been trying to correct such ludicrous blanket statements, but I suppose you think you're onto something and won't be dissuaded. Maybe it hasn't occurred to you that the air at altitude doesn't have the same properties as the air measured at the surface at KPRC channel 2?

You fancy yourself of a scientific mind, so apply Occam's Razor to the problem. What is more likely: that you don't have all the facts and are simply misapplying half-learned basic theory, or we're all in on a vast conspiracy to dupe the American public? All of us, who differ mightily on everything else (airlines, politics, religion, etc.) are all in agreement on some cockeyed program to poison the public? The same public that we're a part of? Our families and children? Use your head, man.

 

[ms6073]

Re: daily statistics

Let me know what you think of them.

Devner130,

You know what, I also live in Houston and yesterday despite the fact that surface temps were in the 60's by late afternoon, this was not indicative of the winds and temps aloft which will have an impact on the longevity of aircraft contrails! According to the NOAA, yesterday, the weatherstation at Elington field reported the following surface conditions:

Time Date Temp DP Humidity Winds
5 PM (22) Dec 18 68 (20) 32 (0) 30.3 (1026) NW 8
4 PM (21) Dec 18 68 (20) 32 (0) 30.3 (1026) NNW 7

Did you realize that during that time the freezing level was between an altitiude of 12,000-15,000 feet? Also, during the time period you mentioned the winds aloft (30,000 - 300mb and higher) were not very active at only 30-50 kts. as the jetstream was well North of us! An area of high pressure was also forecast to move into the area during the day yesterday which will also effect the temperature lapse rate! All of this will have effected the aircraft contrails you so carefully captured in the images you linked to!

Here is a link to the Aviation Digital Data Service, a NOAA aviation specific website that offers some very good tools for analyzing and evaluating the prevailing weather - both at the surface and aloft. Next time you want to analyze one of these contrails, why not spend a few minutes looking at the weahter conditions - both at the surface and at altitude - so that you will better understand how weather can effect the overall stability of the atmosphere.

Finally, considering that Sugarland-Hull and Westside airports are not that far away from you, have you ever considered joining the club instead of simply sitting outside the clubhouse and throwing rocks to try and get the members attention?



Michael

 

[uscpilot]

Quit quoting some anynomus CAL pilot. -USCPILOT

The question is really this. Is the pilot reliable or not?

My answer is yes. Why?

No, he is not. The only proof that I will accept is verifyable altitude of the aircraft in question (not "gee wizz that plane sure is low, what's that hes leaving behind?? ), and the wind and temp aloft forcast (not the surface conditions, they are irrelivant).
Also realize that contrails are not a function of altitude, as you have been told a number of times. They occur only under the right temp and humidity conditions. You can count on these conditions existing at very high alt (30000' or greater), but that does not mean that they can not occur at much lower altitudes.
As I have said before I have never seen a trail anywhere near 10000' or below, and all of my flight experience is in this area. Why dont you rent a plane and fly up to these low altitude trails the next time you see them?
usc

 

[JetSpeed219]

Now, I know that there are ignorant people out there, but wow. Seriously this guy is rediculous and needs some help, I almost feel sorry for him........

 

[uscpilot]

Now, I know that there are ignorant people out there, but wow. Seriously this guy is rediculous and needs some help, I almost feel sorry for him........

I know what you mean. I keep telling myself to stop participating and maybe he will go away. But every time I see on of his moronic postings I just cant help my self. I liken it to staring at an accident on the highway, you know you shouldnt look but you just cant help your self. Not the best anology I know but the best I could come up with on short notice.
usc

 

[skyking1976]

Hey Denver130...

What's your viewpoint about religion?

 

[bart]

Santa Claus, the Easter Bunny and the Tooth Fairy all agree that chemtrails are an evil corporate/government mind control program conducted under the auspices of the Masons and the Tri-Lateral Commission.

Anyone who doesn't think this is so, then fine, tell all the kids there is no such thing as the Easter Bunny, Santa and the Tooth Fairy.

Remember, it's for the children.

 

[414Flyer]

Re: Houston cloud cover

As I begin to search statistics on clouds here in Houston, I'm finding that altitude of 2,000ft is not uncommon.

I'll keep you posted.

You completely are unable to read or comprehend apparently.

You still dont realize its not the height of clouds being at 2000' that we doubt. So what if there were clouds at 2000'

We just dont believe that you saw these vast trails under a 2000' cloud layer.

Maybe you saw condensation trails from the wings or flaps on takeoff or landing. Or maybe you just saw nothing and your paranoia got the best of you.

 

[Northern Lights]

From Denver's website...

Whats coming out of the tail of the jet?

Answer---ABSOLUTELY NOTHING!!!!!

Look at the exhaust, and it lines up nicely with each engine!

I know I'm supposed to just stay away from this thread, but like the others, I just can't help from marveling at this nonsense.

Denver, don't you find it interesting that NOT ONE pilot on this board agrees with you?

 

[HueyPilot]

Oh boy...

I can't believe I actually clicked on the links provided, but I did anyways...and guess what!

I wasn't suprised a bit to see that the clouds Denver is screaming about being at 2,000 feet are all cirriform clouds, which are all high-altitude in nature.

Denver, when you asked the pilot what altitude the clouds were at, he probably told you where the airfield ceiling is. Did you ask him where all the cloud decks were? Did you ask him how high that cirrus deck was? Chances are, those cirriform clouds in your pictures are well into the 30-40,000 foot range.

I've been flying for some time now, and I've NEVER seen cirriform clouds down at 2,000 feet....it's impossible. Guess what? Cirriform clouds are the same things as contrails, except they are naturally formed versus induced by hot jet exhaust. So if you see cirriform clouds, you can bet you'll probably see contrails because the very same conditions that allowed the natural clouds to form will allow persisting contrails to form as well.

And your analogy that it was X degrees on the surface with Y wind is meaningless. I departed my home field the other day, where the wind was around 8-10 knots, and by the time we got to 10,000 feet we had a northwestern tailwind of about 115 knots.

 

[uscpilot]

I think that the next time denver starts one of these threads it should be hijacked, not ignored. There will always be people responding to his idiocy. The best thing would be to turn his thread into a bear, bbq, weightloss, or whos got the best avtar thread. It really doesnt matter, just annoy him so that he will leave. I admit initally these threads were fun to read and participate in, but now they are just a colossal waste of time. My 2 cents.
usc

 

[JetSpeed219]

Good call USC, I'm with you......

 

[bart]

I had some really good bbq in Morehead City NC yesterday. Smithfields. Cheap and good.

 

[enigma]

I was trying to lose a little weight, but someones avatar reminded me of BBQ. I went to my favorite BBQ joint and acquired a couple o pounds of brisket and headed for the airport. Danged if Avbugs bear didn't steal my brisket, so now I'm sitting here wishing that Stillaboos old avatar was still up so that I could get my mind off of lost brisket.

Speaking of Stillaboos old avatar; I'm a sinner, saved by the grace of Gods sacrific of his Son, Jesus the Christ. If I ever get to thinking that I gained salvation because I'm a good person, all I need to do is look at that avatar to remind myself that I've still got a base nature lurking inside my mind.

regards,
enigma

 

[Denver130]

414 flyer "We just don't believe"

"We just dont believe that you saw these vast trails under a 2000' cloud layer."

Its truly hard to believe! I agree 100 percent.

This whole issue is hard to believe until you pay attention to it.

Photos don't lie and I don't think that CAL pilot lied. Keep in mind that Michigan has alot of low altitude clouds. I used to live there. Its cloudy and gloomy year around. A simple call to the airport or to a web site or a TV station can give you an altitude reference point once you have cloud cover.

If I was a poker player I'd be smiling right now. The evidence is getting over whelming. You would have to turn a blind eye to dismiss it.

And what about .....
http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/Houston21.html
http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/Houston22.html
?????

Here you have warm temperatures 66 degrees and 27 percent humidity!!!!!! Isn't that difficult for you to ignore?

What about the photos themselves. Its hard for me to believe that I took those pictures with a cheap 18X optical Zoom on a $500 camcorder without megapixal hardware.

There's no way to explain this massive spray operation. A police officer drove by that day and I asked him if he thought those trails were unusual looking. He said absolutely!

I wish it didn't exist.
I wish I never looked up.
I wish I had never listened to my supervisor describe here grid pattern over her house.
I wish I had never looked at HR2977 where congress admits to the program.
I wish I had never asked that pilot what the cloud ceiling was.
I wish I had never invested so many hours looking at weather and climate documentation.
I wish I had never looked at NASA and NOAA web sites.
I wish those photos didn't have massive jet trails or planes that look like something is coming out the tail of them.

But when I looked out my window this morning toward the trees, a massive chemtrail is dispersing in clear view. How long will it be there? So far its been 45 minutes and I will post the photos with time codes so that you can see them later in the day.

You have to decide. If you put you bury your head in the sand then your right. It doesn't exist.

 

[VaB]

"I wish it didn't exist.
I wish I never looked up.
I wish I had never listened to my supervisor describe here grid pattern over her house.
I wish I had never looked at HR2977 where congress admits to the program.
I wish I had never asked that pilot what the cloud ceiling was.
I wish I had never invested so many hours looking at weather and climate documentation.
I wish I had never looked at NASA and NOAA web sites.
I wish those photos didn't have massive jet trails or planes that look like something is coming out the tail of them."


Forgot one:

I wish I could stop opening this thread.

 

[Eagleflip]

Actually, Willard's BBQ in Chantilly, VA is pretty good too. Ribs are downright tasty, great sides...they even have pretty good Carolina pork with sauce.

 

[uscpilot]

Texas vs NC or anyone elses BBQ

What is the best? TX vs the rest of the country. I have to go with TX, and Rudy's BBQ in Leon Springs. I realize that it is a chain, but I am talking about the origional location. Out here in NC there is no comparison, although in a pinch the Lexington BBQ does come through. I just dont like pork the way I like beef.
Rudy's brisket, a cold Shiner Bock, and Stilaboo's avatar, to steal from an inferior beer's commercial, "It doesnt get any better than this."
usc

 

[Afixedwing]

Moonlight BBQ in Owensboro, Kentucky is by far the best I've had to date. Excellent buffet as well.

 

[kevdog]

"Chemtrail dump switch - on" is part of our climb check as we're climbing through 3000 agl. We do this on the climb check because it is silent.

Sometimes we fill the chemgoo reservoirs too much on short hops, and we have to hold for 15 minutes before landing. Sometimes when we are bored we go from right hand holds to left, making X shapes in the sky. I love winning bets with captains who think they can make better X's than me. I win about 80% of the time.

 

[skyking1976]

Haywards Pit BBQ in K.C., KS is my fave...

 

[Denver130]

poetic justice

Houston, Texas
Located almost on the same latitude with Tampa and St Petersburg, Flordia. The climate here used to see rain daily but lately its been dry as a bone. The grass is turning brown,
The cars are filled with dust.
The sun is oppressive on your face.
Humidity rates are so low that they resemble Austin. Where we used to have 90 or 100 percent humidity, now its down in the 20 percent range. Nature cries for rain but none is given.

Day after day the skys are clear. Planes are easily spotted as they leisurely get in line to land or take off at IAH or Hobby.

Then they come like unannounced visitors. One, two, three, four up to nine at a time. Each in the sky, dropping their payload a plane load at time. Now X’s form here and grid patterns form there. So massive are they that they stand out greater than rainbows visible in the sky.

We run for our cameras to record the sky,
only to hear pilots say “its normal” goodbye.
Humidity is low and temperatures are hot,
but their not concerned cause you don’t belong to the pilots lot. Why do you question us they continually say,
don’t you know that we see it every day?!
We can’t help it if you read and study every day,
Just let us live our lives and go our merry way.
Jet contrail science we seldom study that,
But if you need an answer just call pilot Pat.
Don’t worry about pictures and temperature changes,
Cause those jet trails come in all kinds of ranges.
So please don’t worry about what you see.
Cause its really nothing more, like seeing a big bee.

 

[Denver130]

Holiday trails re-examined

http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/Houston21.html
http://www.geocities.com/houstonchemtrails/Houston22.html

What’s wrong with those pictures? Are we just recording everyday occurrences or are these photos showing something else?
To answer that question we need to know what the formula for jet contrails is?

Jet contrails form when you have:

1. High altitudes (that’s were low temperatures are found. Typically at 30,000ft plus)
2. Low temperatures (beginning at -40 )
3. High humidity (mega humidity 80 to 100 percent not just a drop or two)

What was the temperature at the time of the pictures? 66 degrees.

At what altitude would you see a jet contrail begin to form if the ground temp is 66 degrees? Take 3.5F (temp difference per thousand feet) times 30 equals 105 (temp difference) Then subtract 66 from 105 equals -39F (NASA and NOAA says you need -40 so were very close). Therefore, the altitude required for jet contrails to form if its 66 degrees on the ground is 30,000ft. Does that fit the conditions for jet contrails? Yes

What was the humidity that day? 27 percent

Denver, why don’t you think you’re seeing normal jet contrails in Houston21 and Houston22?

1. Climate: The climate was too hot and the humidity is too low that day. (hard to believe isn't it! Houston is not located at the North Pole. Its located near the same latitude as Tampa or St Pete Flordia.)
2. Consistency: The climate has been consistently hot and dry for days. How can we go day after day, week after week with no jet contrails and then get hit with up to 9 jets leaving low lying, long lasting trails over our neighborhoods. Even the police are baffled about it!
3. Aerial photography hardware with 18X optical zoom would be hard pressed to photograph jets at 30,000ft. Its like trying to photograph your house at cruising altitudes with a cheap Kmart camera. Yet we can photograph and video tape these planes and trails with a degree of clarity every time. That’s a sign that they are traveling at lower altitudes then what you’d expect for jet contrails.
4. The trails are massive. Jet contrails at 30,000ft plus should look pencil thin, not massive. Also, they shouldn’t appear as gigantic rainbows over a community. Moreover, when was the last time, a normal jet contrail looked like someone took an eraser to the photograph?
5. The trails are lasting too long. Mark Steadman did a study of over 60 jet contrails in Houston. His results were that the vast majority of jet contrails lasted under a minute. Long lasting jet contrails according to NASA need initial temperatures of -70 degrees to sustain them for long periods of time. Houston’s climate is not conducive for that. Its simply too hot. (You can easily do time lapse photography on these jet trails and show consistently that they are lasting toooo long. The vast majority of jet contrails evaporate so fast, you wouldn’t even NOTICE THEM!
6. Although we had no cloud cover that day, cloud cover is becoming a critical component in the chemtrail argument. Once we call the airport to get the cloud ceiling, we then have an altitude reference point. If jets spray under the cloud ceiling at X altitude, we can then ask, does it fit the formula for jet contrails? If the ceiling is obviously too low, then we have to question what we are seeing.

For example, the cloud ceiling for Grand Rapids, MI on November 24th was 2,000ft as reported by a Continental pilot (the pilot who piloted the jet I arrived on). Outside the airport were massive jet contrails. Can jet contrails be sustained at 2,000ft? NO, unless you’re in Antarctica. From what I’m seeing at the Unisys Weather web site, it appears common for Houston to have 2,000ft cloud ceilings as well. What are we seeing if jet contrails don’t form at 2,000ft? A chemical trail. A big, fat, purposefully created white chemical trail.

Chemical trails don’t need 30,000ft to form.
Chemical trails don’t need 90 percent humidity to form.
Chemical trails don’t need cold temperatures to form.

Just ask presidential hopeful Dennis Kucinch (author of HR2977), Representative Bob Graham (Project SHAD), Representative Jim Thompson (Project SHAD) and Representative Marty Sabo (covert spraying in Minnesota).

 

[Typhoon1244]

Just got a P.M. from Denver...I don't even want to go into it. The level of ignorance is just too shocking.

I don't care, really, if Denver130 wants to believe in chemtrails. I don't. Not one bit.

What bothers me is that the internet has given defectives like him potential access to thousands and thousands of people. Before you know it, Fox will run a special on "The Secrets of Chemtrails," and there'll be no end to this lunacy!

 

[Swass]

Skyking,
I just had Hayward's last Thursday, yum yum. I like the sausage and beef lunch special. Good eats, great atmosphere. Hayward is a pimp daddy too, sporting the bling bling "H" necklace.

 

[uscpilot]

Hey Denver whats your favorite BBQ? I like brisket that has been sprayed with aluminum oxide from black helicopters.
I just had an idea for a new BBQ sauce, Chemgoo. Patent pending!!
usc