Can anyone understand "problems" with NWA's seniority list?

[General Lee]

I don't think the DALPA merger Cmte ever wanted fair - I think they wanted to hit one out of the park, and be be carried on the shoulders of their cheering comrades for being victorious in preserving the DAL way of life of screwing merged companies to their lists advantage.

If they have convinced themselves they are being fair, it is in the form of how you "fairly" treat livestock, CMR, or other perceived lesser forms of life.

I think the arrogance of the DAL position will backfire, and they are going to be extremely disappointed in the result, however are counting on RA rejecting anything else other than their proposal as being too expensive - too bad their proposal is in fact the one that will cost DAL inc. far more.

When the arbitrated list is accepted and their entire strategy is blown, they will sue and sulk.

You sound like a USAir East pilot.. You are the one with entitlement issues. You have not taken into account what you NWA pilots have already gotten from our merger, and what you can get in the future---like off of your old DC9s and into higher paying equipment that is more advanced. What again did we get from you guys again? A NRT hub? Anything else? Old planes? How is DTW doing as a city these days?

Your Dynamic list has never been done before, and attrition hasn't been used either. I bet Bloch may use the plug and play method though, but not to the extent that you are counting on. It will be a 7 to 5 ratio, with some modest plug and play to placate your loudest whiners. That'll be it. The arbitrators still have to follow the ALPA merger policies, with modest tweaking, which will happen.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[DTW320]

What again did we get from you guys again?$3 Billion in cash, to start.... A NRT hub?Correct. Ask RA if he thinks that is a minor thing. Anything else? Yeah, quite a few....but you KNOW that.Old planes? 4.5 years older average fleet age than the DAL fleet. How old are those DC9-88's and 767's again? You got 32 A330's that are much newer than your 767's. Do you have amnesia?.. cause this has been coveredHow is DTW doing as a city these days?How's it doing as a strategically positioned hub? Again, ask RA what he thinks about DTW as a hub. No really.....he's very familiar with it, and it's greatest strengths have little to do with GM or Ford.

Also, if you're so sure about eh outcome of the SLI, why did both sides spend so much time and our money on it? They could have just asked you and saved everyone a lot of trouble.

 

[Fly4hire]

Also, if you're so sure about eh outcome of the SLI, why did both sides spend so much time and our money on it? They could have just asked you and saved everyone a lot of trouble.

Haven't you been listening? They have been telling the arbitrators what the MUST do, and what they CAN and CANNOT do. They speak as if the outcome has already been determined and can be no other way. <br><br>If for some reason they don't they are counting on RA rejecting the list and/or sue. <br><br> Too bad their proposal is the cost prohibitive one.

 

[NuGuy]

Haven't you been listening? They have been telling the arbitrators what the MUST do, and what they CAN and CANNOT do. They speak as if the outcome has already been determined and can be no other way. <br><br>If for some reason they don't they are counting on RA rejecting the list and/or sue. <br><br> Too bad their proposal is the cost prohibitive one.

Interesting concept....

So, the $64 (million) dollar question is which is more expensive: Administering the list, which NWA did for 20 years with minimum trouble, or face 5100+ lawsuits when a binding arbitration award is "rejected" for a nebulous reason?

I saw a lot of DAL guys giving a rash of sh!t to AAA guys...I wonder how their tune will change if the award doesn't go exactly their way.

Nu

 

[General Lee]

Haven't you been listening? They have been telling the arbitrators what the MUST do, and what they CAN and CANNOT do. They speak as if the outcome has already been determined and can be no other way. <br><br>If for some reason they don't they are counting on RA rejecting the list and/or sue. <br><br> Too bad their proposal is the cost prohibitive one.

So, I guess they could decide to make you and Dtw320 number 1 and number 2, right? Yeah, that's the ticket. They can do whatever they want..... Hello? We are both members of ALPA. We still have an Alpa merger policy. They don't have to go exactly that way, but that is the outline, and if they stray from it, they will have to explain a lot of things. No windfalls is a particular rule we have, and what you are asking for is a windfall. Same with USAir East, and look how that ended. We'll see, but your DOH request and the dynamic list for everyone at NWA is very unlikely. Look for 7 to 5, with some modest plug and play.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

Interesting concept....

So, the $64 (million) dollar question is which is more expensive: Administering the list, which NWA did for 20 years with minimum trouble, or face 5100+ lawsuits when a binding arbitration award is "rejected" for a nebulous reason?

I saw a lot of DAL guys giving a rash of sh!t to AAA guys...I wonder how their tune will change if the award doesn't go exactly their way.

Nu

You must have been reading some other hearing's testimony..... Wow, the only thing you guys "jumped" on was Bloch saying we were "equals." (financially) I don't care if you had a bit more money before the merger. That came from your lousy post BK contract. And, we all know Steenland horded money to look for a merger partner. You did know that, right?


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

What again did we get from you guys again?$3 Billion in cash, to start.... A NRT hub?Correct. Ask RA if he thinks that is a minor thing. Anything else? Yeah, quite a few....but you KNOW that.Old planes? 4.5 years older average fleet age than the DAL fleet. How old are those DC9-88's and 767's again? You got 32 A330's that are much newer than your 767's. Do you have amnesia?.. cause this has been coveredHow is DTW doing as a city these days?How's it doing as a strategically positioned hub? Again, ask RA what he thinks about DTW as a hub. No really.....he's very familiar with it, and it's greatest strengths have little to do with GM or Ford. Also, if you're so sure about eh outcome of the SLI, why did both sides spend so much time and our money on it? They could have just asked you and saved everyone a lot of trouble.


How ridiculous. DO YOU HAVE OLD DC9s or NOT? Are you still bringing 30 more out of the desert? (nope, that was a diverson for something else) What about the 742s? Will they be around during this economic downturn? Those 757s and A319s that you parked or gave to Fedex were pretty new, weren't they? Was there a memo that stated stand alone you would have furloughed up to 300? Remember that one? Are your A330s newer than our 764s? Are you grouping all of our 767s together? How old are your 744s? And I love your "DC9-88" quote there. I think they are a heck of a lot more advanced than your DC9s. Can those DC9s do LNAV and VNAV approaches? I didn't think so. Yeah, and DTW and Michigan aren't really hurting economically, and those people don't fly out of DTW anyway, right? Nah, it is just a transfer point for the rest of the country, ONLY.... right.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[Full of LUV]

Starting to sound like a broken record.....

What again did we get from you guys again?$3 Billion in cash, to start.... A NRT hub?Correct. Ask RA if he thinks that is a minor thing. Anything else? Yeah, quite a few....but you KNOW that.Old planes? 4.5 years older average fleet age than the DAL fleet. How old are those DC9-88's and 767's again? You got 32 A330's that are much newer than your 767's. Do you have amnesia?.. cause this has been coveredHow is DTW doing as a city these days?How's it doing as a strategically positioned hub? Again, ask RA what he thinks about DTW as a hub. No really.....he's very familiar with it, and it's greatest strengths have little to do with GM or Ford. Also, if you're so sure about eh outcome of the SLI, why did both sides spend so much time and our money on it? They could have just asked you and saved everyone a lot of trouble.


How ridiculous. DO YOU HAVE OLD DC9s or NOT? Are you still bringing 30 more out of the desert? (nope, that was a diverson for something else) What about the 742s? Will they be around during this economic downturn? Those 757s and A319s that you parked or gave to Fedex were pretty new, weren't they? Was there a memo that stated stand alone you would have furloughed up to 300? Remember that one? Are your A330s newer than our 764s? Are you grouping all of our 767s together? How old are your 744s? And I love your "DC9-88" quote there. I think they are a heck of a lot more advanced than your DC9s. Can those DC9s do LNAV and VNAV approaches? I didn't think so. Yeah, and DTW and Michigan aren't really hurting economically, and those people don't fly out of DTW anyway, right? Nah, it is just a transfer point for the rest of the country, ONLY.... right.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You guys rehash the same old arguments. That's what the arbitration was for to air it alllllllll out, only 16 more days till we find out what three arbitrators thought was fair. Let's try and not tear eachother's hearts out when all that's been said has been said. I havn't heard a NEW argument in some time, just alot of fuzzy math and rumored fleet changes.

 

[PeanuckleCRJ]

Interesting concept....

So, the $64 (million) dollar question is which is more expensive: Administering the list, which NWA did for 20 years with minimum trouble, or face 5100+ lawsuits when a binding arbitration award is "rejected" for a nebulous reason?

I saw a lot of DAL guys giving a rash of sh!t to AAA guys...I wonder how their tune will change if the award doesn't go exactly their way.

Nu

Yeah, because the NW/Republic merger was a shining light of success in no lawsuits and no bad morale among the pilot groups.

 

[nwaredtail]

What again did we get from you guys again?$3 Billion in cash, to start.... A NRT hub?Correct. Ask RA if he thinks that is a minor thing. Anything else? Yeah, quite a few....but you KNOW that.Old planes? 4.5 years older average fleet age than the DAL fleet. How old are those DC9-88's and 767's again? You got 32 A330's that are much newer than your 767's. Do you have amnesia?.. cause this has been coveredHow is DTW doing as a city these days?How's it doing as a strategically positioned hub? Again, ask RA what he thinks about DTW as a hub. No really.....he's very familiar with it, and it's greatest strengths have little to do with GM or Ford. Also, if you're so sure about eh outcome of the SLI, why did both sides spend so much time and our money on it? They could have just asked you and saved everyone a lot of trouble.


How ridiculous. DO YOU HAVE OLD DC9s or NOT? Are you still bringing 30 more out of the desert? (nope, that was a diverson for something else) What about the 742s? Will they be around during this economic downturn? Those 757s and A319s that you parked or gave to Fedex were pretty new, weren't they? Was there a memo that stated stand alone you would have furloughed up to 300? Remember that one? Are your A330s newer than our 764s? Are you grouping all of our 767s together? How old are your 744s? And I love your "DC9-88" quote there. I think they are a heck of a lot more advanced than your DC9s. Can those DC9s do LNAV and VNAV approaches? I didn't think so. Yeah, and DTW and Michigan aren't really hurting economically, and those people don't fly out of DTW anyway, right? Nah, it is just a transfer point for the rest of the country, ONLY.... right.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Do you sit around all day and jack it to flighinfo? Are you an arrogant widebody fo afraid to upgrade? Is your wife lonely? Can you say anything that is not negative and full of half truths? Does the DC-9 make a ton of money? Are there DAL FO's that would love to fly DC-9 Capt? Do you know that NWA has always made more money than DAL? Do you realize that nobody really gives a ******************** what you think?

Dude, call the pharmacy and get your meds refilled.

 

[General Lee]

Do you sit around all day and jack it to flighinfo? Are you an arrogant widebody fo afraid to upgrade? Is your wife lonely? Can you say anything that is not negative and full of half truths? Does the DC-9 make a ton of money? Are there DAL FO's that would love to fly DC-9 Capt? Do you know that NWA has always made more money than DAL? Do you realize that nobody really gives a ******************** what you think?

Dude, call the pharmacy and get your meds refilled.

Wow, thanks for caring. Maybe I should get right on that.....? Do I want to fly the MD88 as a Captain? No. Could I? Easily, but I would rather not, and wait for something I would like to fly, as a line holder. Is that sooooooo wrong? It must be hard for you to understand, being stuck in your crashpad, flying your DC9. No thanks. I don't want any part of that. Do I think any DL FO's would want to upgrade on the DC9? No, I really don't, unless they live in MSP or DTW and look forward to asking for vectors. I enjoy being senior, and I want to be a "block holder" as you say on the 738 when I go over there. I already did a year on it in the right seat, so it won't be that bad at all. Is my wife lonely? Heck no. I usually have 16-18 days off a month, and I spend quality time with her. You are stuck in your crashpad, cranking on the computer with your pad mates. Have fun with that too. Who's making your Turkey TV Dinner Thursday night? Night night, don't let your pad mates bite...

Bye Bye--General Lee (no crashpad for me!)

 

[NuGuy]

Yeah, because the NW/Republic merger was a shining light of success in no lawsuits and no bad morale among the pilot groups.

Actually, there were NO lawsuits with regards to the Robert's award, which was a major point that was made in the arbitration.

Nu

 

[General Lee]

Actually, there were NO lawsuits with regards to the Robert's award, which was a major point that was made in the arbitration.

Nu

Yeah, we all know it was a great award. Ask every greenbook. 20 year fences. Yeah, great. You know you guys asked for a ratio, but Roberts gave the 20 year fence, and one of your witnesses read an article pointing out that it was something that should not be repeated........ah, you know that, I am sure you have read the transcripts.....


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[NuGuy]

Yeah, we all know it was a great award. Ask every greenbook. 20 year fences. Yeah, great. You know you guys asked for a ratio, but Roberts gave the 20 year fence...

Roberts also gave DOH...imagine that.

Nu

 

[~~~^~~~]

Listening to most of you rds, I don't understand why we even bothered with negotiations much less arbitration. What a waste of time and money. In your minds it is so cut and dried, crystal clear that your generous offer was not only extremly fair but the too fair. But that is just the generosity of the dal pilot group to promote a team spirit with us. ....whining for the next 25+ years. G.lee,puffy,fd,acl,fins will you????

Team Spirit?

Weren't you the guy who was already threatening to have your First Officers removed from trips and castrate others and ID me as a scab?

I have never heard a label for Delta pilots who were hired by Delta. Or, labels for co-workers that came from other airlines. Why are the Northwest pilots so intent to find a label? Are you practiced in the art of phrenology? At best, a stereotype is an illusory correlation. Let us just stop the bigotry before it begins.

If both sides were to concede that the other side was honestly trying to achieve the goals of ALPA merger policy then:

• The Delta submission preserved status quo on day one better than any other plan.
• The NWA looked to preserve a future status quo, based on attrition.

Either way it looks to me like you win. Why not just be happy, let your First Officer get a few legs to the outstation every now and then, and let the French be French?