Can anyone understand "problems" with NWA's seniority list?

General Lee

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Can anyone explain to me the "problems" with NWA's seniority list they have used lately? It seems to have a lot of retired pilots still on the list, and NALPA hasn't removed them, after plenty of requests. Apparently lots of mistakes. Darn computers! Here is a sample of testimony:


Number 16, DXXXXXX, has got prior
13 to 12-31-07 but he was on the January '08
14 seniority list.
15 Now, there were a few pilots that
16 had this type of annotation and in my actual
17 analysis I basically gave them a Mulligan for
18 that and said this pilot may have retired, he
19 may have been on the list incorrectly,
but I
20 didn't consider that an error because, quite
21 frankly, there were much larger errors to look
22 at.
23 Q. Show us some of those.
24 A. The next one, for instance, would
25 be a pilot LuXXXX, number 18 on the list. Now

Page 2484
1 PILOTS OF NORTHWEST - DELTA ARBITRATION
2 he wasn't identified as a prior to 12-31-07
3 pilot but he's still on their seniority list.
4 Q. He was included among 113 pilots
5 who the Northwest pilots told us through their
6 exhibit had retired between December 13, 2007
7 and January 31, correct?
8 A. Correct. And he's on the latest
9 list that we got just a couple of weeks ago.
10 Q. Okay.


It actually was a large part of the testimony, and went on for a while. I just don't understand what was wrong? Oh well.



Bye Bye--General Lee
 

Carl S.

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Just like the AWA/AAA lists, everyone is looking out for their side and get max. return on the list, human nature and standard legal advice. It's like a bad divorce case and each side is playing the other side as the bad one. At LCC the East is still saying that their own list they submitted was wrong and that MDA pilots(the elite embraer division) were active mainliners and should not have been counted as furloughed. Most arbitrators will see the B.S. and give their answer in the decision.
 

clippyrip

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Spackler, nice to have you on FI. Your responses are always appreciated.
 

nwaredtail

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Can anyone explain to me the "problems" with NWA's seniority list they have used lately? It seems to have a lot of retired pilots still on the list, and NALPA hasn't removed them, after plenty of requests. Apparently lots of mistakes. Darn computers! Here is a sample of testimony:


Number 16, DXXXXXX, has got prior
13 to 12-31-07 but he was on the January '08
14 seniority list.
15 Now, there were a few pilots that
16 had this type of annotation and in my actual
17 analysis I basically gave them a Mulligan for
18 that and said this pilot may have retired, he
19 may have been on the list incorrectly,
but I
20 didn't consider that an error because, quite
21 frankly, there were much larger errors to look
22 at.
23 Q. Show us some of those.
24 A. The next one, for instance, would
25 be a pilot LuXXXX, number 18 on the list. Now

Page 2484
1 PILOTS OF NORTHWEST - DELTA ARBITRATION
2 he wasn't identified as a prior to 12-31-07
3 pilot but he's still on their seniority list.
4 Q. He was included among 113 pilots
5 who the Northwest pilots told us through their
6 exhibit had retired between December 13, 2007
7 and January 31, correct?
8 A. Correct. And he's on the latest
9 list that we got just a couple of weeks ago.
10 Q. Okay.


It actually was a large part of the testimony, and went on for a while. I just don't understand what was wrong? Oh well.



Bye Bye--General Lee
From what I am told, we basically have to talk very slow and "dumb" down our presentations quite a bit :)

You not understanding something is something we have all come to expect.
 

General Lee

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From what I am told, we basically have to talk very slow and "dumb" down our presentations quite a bit :)

You not understanding something is something we have all come to expect.
The arbitrators can absolutely understand what you guys are doing. Anyone can see it. Just read that testimony and it will set you free.....


Bye Bye--General Lee
 

~~~^~~~

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Problems? retired pilots on the list, disabled pilots on the list, dead pilots on the list, Mesaba pilots on the list .... why is that a problem? Dead people voted in Chicago. Why should we deny them a place on the list?

Just to make it even, Delta announced plans to put the entire lists of Comair and Delta Connection Academy, including faculty on the list so the ratio can be made using apples and apples with NWA's methodology, not that NWA wants a ratio, but since DOH is DOA, they might as well argue dynamic based on a ratio.

Fourth glass half empty :nuts:
 
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nwaredtail

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Problems? retired pilots on the list, disabled pilots on the list, dead pilots on the list .... why is that a problem, dead people voted in Chicago. Why should we deny them a place on the list?
Thats because the list is a few months old, since then NWA has had 100 plus retirements. Stop trying to make it look like we are being deceitful.

How many retirements for you guys?
 

~~~^~~~

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Why is it that Delta has a current list of NWA pilots, but NWA's rep doesn't? Why is it that your MEC Chair can't find his outbox and your Reps can't remember the memos they got on staffing and furloughs?

Your side is making itself look like ..... they work for you, I don't control them.

If your credibility was a substance, it would be so small that when shoved up the butt of an ant, it would roll around like a BB in the Georgia Dome.
 
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retired guy

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Boys...this is the way the game is played. We (Delta Pilots) have been through all of this before. NorthEast tried to pull the same stunt. Western and Pan Am didn`t seem to try it. Don`t worry, it`ll all be caught and everything will be ok.
 

filejw

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Also some folks put in for retirement and then withdrew.
 

nwaredtail

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If your credibility was a substance, it would be so small that when shoved up the butt of an ant, it would roll around like a BB in the Georgia Dome.
[/QUOTE]

Gee, redneck humor. Looks like we better get used to this.......
 

metrodriver

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If I see all the NWA flights that are being suspended in the next few month the raping has started: DTW-LGW, SEA-LHR and a few more.
 

NuGuy

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Gee, redneck humor. Looks like we better get used to this.......[/quote]

Heyas NWART,

Yup.

As far as the medical retirements, they've ALWAYS been carried on the seniority list for as long as I've been at NWA.

They have the right to "un-retire" if their medical condition clears up or is corrected, so it's only appropriate for them to remain on the list.

Same goes for guys out on long term mil leave, long term sick leave, personal leave, etc, etc. These guys stay on the list, in their last position held.

DAL, OTOH, shuffles them off the list into a "special" staus list, hidden from view. I wonder how many of these guys will "get better" and pop up out of nowhere once the SLI is resolved.

NWA only publishes a seniority list every six months, so obviously there will be retired pilots on the list.

Nu
 

DTW320

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Gee, redneck humor. Looks like we better get used to this.......
Heyas NWART,

Yup.

As far as the medical retirements, they've ALWAYS been carried on the seniority list for as long as I've been at NWA.

They have the right to "un-retire" if their medical condition clears up or is corrected, so it's only appropriate for them to remain on the list.

Same goes for guys out on long term mil leave, long term sick leave, personal leave, etc, etc. These guys stay on the list, in their last position held.

DAL, OTOH, shuffles them off the list into a "special" staus list, hidden from view. I wonder how many of these guys will "get better" and pop up out of nowhere once the SLI is resolved.

NWA only publishes a seniority list every six months, so obviously there will be retired pilots on the list.

Nu
Nu,

The problem is that the Deltoids can't relate to the idea of someone being on a disability retirement and keeping their seniority #, with the right to return if they get their medical back, for 7 years. Take a look at the disability provisions in the Delta contract. Any NWA pilot used to the generous provisions of our DRP status is in for a shock to read what happens to us as DAL pilots if you get a serious medical setback. But remember, their contract is vastly superior to our old contract in every way.....at least that's what I heard here over and over.....

BTW, The last NWA seniority list (July 2008) contains a grand total of EIGHT pilots who were over 65 as of July 2008.....out of 5173.....8

Typical FI DALPA BS
 

NuGuy

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Nu,

The problem is that the Deltoids can't relate to the idea of someone being on a disability retirement and keeping their seniority #, with the right to return if they get their medical back, for 7 years. Take a look at the disability provisions in the Delta contract. Any NWA pilot used to the generous provisions of our DRP status is in for a shock to read what happens to us as DAL pilots if you get a serious medical setback. But remember, their contract is vastly superior to our old contract in every way.....at least that's what I heard here over and over.....

BTW, The last NWA seniority list (July 2008) contains a grand total of EIGHT pilots who were over 65 as of July 2008.....out of 5173.....8

Typical FI DALPA BS

Heyas 320,

Yup. But we got a raise!<-----massive sarcasm (for the Delta impaired)

I won't go into the lengthy list of items we lost to get the money (which is a tiny raise..when you subtract out the QoL/protections we lost).

Suffice to say, if we said "fine, we'll go back to our old PWA if you give us DOH/fence", and you could bet there'd still be howls of dismay from the Deltoids.

I didn't want their PWA or their raise. I voted yes for the SLI methodology. In the end, there can be only one.

Nu
 

~~~^~~~

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Nevermind... lets wait for the last day of testimony.
 
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Scope out RJ's

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Thats because the list is a few months old, since then NWA has had 100 plus retirements. Stop trying to make it look like we are being deceitful.
Nobody's trying to make you look deceitful. You're doing a splendid job of that on your own.

How many retirements for you guys?
Probably the same amount that you guys have now that the truth has been revealed!;)
 
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