CAL-UAL Anti-RJ Proposal

[waveflyer]

ARROGANT???? Elated to have rjs go to the majors? Really? Think about it those guys who have all their weekends off making about 80k as a 10 year rj captain....a lot of em not just 5%. Now they all go to the bottom and go to first year pay. Sorry dude arrogant, realistic, optimistic you call it whatever you want. I've seen 4000 plus mainline pilots get the hell beat out of em with furloughs at the expense of ALP while outsourced to pilots who will take low wages just to fly a shiny little jet with no experience, and then there is mgmt. Time to put it back on mainline property PERIOD! This is the only time we have to put this stuff back on mainline. I don't care how many RJ jobs it costs. This career is NOT about regionals its about the MAJORS.

That's really funny since the word I used was "ignorant"
haha-

yes, a vast majority-
what exactly is your background?
The best RJ job has erratic scheduling at best. Even when super senior- you're never guaranteed a great schedule.
So what percentage number would you feel more comfortable with? Every FO would support it- plus a vast majority of capts are biding their time for majors to start hiring.
Working at a regional- most know since ACA, and Wisconsin- and all the transfering of flying around- building up one operator to shrink another, then reversing it- that it's a roller coaster that is never secure.

Outsourcing has NOT benefitted young pilots- only delayed their chance to get to a major- and possibly caused a furlough or two for the middle aged pilots

 

[onewithwings]

PLEASE refer to the terms af agreement you signed before becoming a member of the BB. DO NOT use personal info on this board! :smash:

 

[wmuflyguy]

I completely agree, but I also think this movement won't die anytime soon. Polls at CAL have indicated that scope is the number 1 issue far and above compensation. The union has said they won't budge on scope at all. The United folks have learned a tough and valuable lesson about outsourcing and I serious doubt that they'll make the same mistake again. They're even more fired up than CAL people are. They wouldn't have 1400 pilots on furlough and probably have a few more thousand pilots on the list. If we relax scope, it's over. They can have all the crj's they want, but mainline operates them with mainline pilots. I think enough people are pissed off and educated to move this along. So would I be concerned at a regional right now? Yep........

I guess the reason I'm not concerned is that why taking back the 50+ seat market will lead to layoffs (most likely including myself) with relatively few 50+ seat aircraft out there (compared to 50's). I think (so take it for what its worth) that with the 50+ seat aircraft at mainline, the number of 50+ seat a/c will not be limited (arbitrarily) like they are now by scope...probably leading to significantly more 50+ seat planes being ordered and flying than their are now, leading to more jobs.

There will still be a market for 50 seaters, albeit down from the number their are now, but still a need.



Short term pain for a long term positive results. I'd be worried if I lived paycheck to paycheck and lived outside my means, in this career that is playing with fire.

 

[UALjan15]

What happens to all the ALPA regional pilots that lose jobs because of progressive scope changes. These pilots must have a place at the table. An abbreviated yet fair process to get them jobs at ML.

Same thing that happened to me when they took my flying away back in '03--furlough. And no, I'm not that concerned with their place at the "table." ML will need more pilots, they'll hire the regional Capts like it used to be, and then your precious RJ FOs can return to their jobs, only this time it won't be to a dead end career.

Under the current model, the regionals are the future of the Air Line Pilot profession.

Well Rez, I have absolutely no problem changing the "current model."

 

[David Clark]

Polls at CAL have indicated that scope is the number 1 issue far and above compensation.

I'd like to see these polls. Post 'em.

 

[Rez O. Lewshun]

Rez=
really?
For years some of the posts you make drive me to think you're a management tool dressing yourself up online as a union guy. You MUST support this.

I've re-read my post... and I don't see what you are getting at... you'll have to be specific...

Same thing that happened to me when they took my flying away back in '03--furlough. And no, I'm not that concerned with their place at the "table." ML will need more pilots, they'll hire the regional Capts like it used to be, and then your precious RJ FOs can return to their jobs, only this time it won't be to a dead end career.

to me... the past is in the past... what we do in the future defines who we are....

Well Rez, I have absolutely no problem changing the "current model."

neither do I... but the regional pilots have a place at the table... they are not fodder or nor are they expendable....

 

[Flopgut]

This is about as un-anti RJ as you can get. Bad title for the thread. BTW: Scope is number 1 at CAL among the majority of the pilots. That's why Jay is handling it like he is.

 

[whatitdoing?]

I guess the reason I'm not concerned is that why taking back the 50+ seat market will lead to layoffs (most likely including myself) with relatively few 50+ seat aircraft out there (compared to 50's). I think (so take it for what its worth) that with the 50+ seat aircraft at mainline, the number of 50+ seat a/c will not be limited (arbitrarily) like they are now by scope...probably leading to significantly more 50+ seat planes being ordered and flying than their are now, leading to more jobs.

There will still be a market for 50 seaters, albeit down from the number their are now, but still a need.



Short term pain for a long term positive results. I'd be worried if I lived paycheck to paycheck and lived outside my means, in this career that is playing with fire.

I agree with you on most of your points besides one. The 50 seater, whether it's ERJ or CRJ or whatever, is over. The CASM for a 50 seater doesn't justify their existence. The majors are looking at this closely and love the 70 seat plus CRJ's or ERJ's. The question is, who will fly them. With this merger, CAL/UAL pilots have the chance to bring back that flying. Will we have to give something up? Probably, but who knows. I'm willing to do that and then some because I know long term it'll be the best decision. Other majors will follow suit and before you know it, the industry has changed again. Is there a market for 50 seaters? Sure, probably in freight or South American, Asian, Middle East flying. But on a passenger based, revenue number crunching management type, they're history. I've talked to several reps and members on the negotiating committee along with the merger committee and everyone is talking about scope and the need to not budge. Hopefully this all works out.

 

[Ex737Driver]

This is about as un-anti RJ as you can get. Bad title for the thread. BTW: Scope is number 1 at CAL among the majority of the pilots. That's why Jay is handling it like he is.

Jay has said this before and I'm quite sure it's still his stance;

SCOPE IS A STRIKEABLE ITEM!!!

 

[Lear70]

WARNING: The original post talking about USAPA being behind both pilot groups is just BARELY within the original scope of our warning to NOT turn other threads into USAPA/East/West threads.

I understand you weren't trying to incite that kind of discussion, however, you HAD to know that others would take offense at the inference (as the next poster in line did) and turn it into one.

If you want to wish someone luck from your COMPANY, do so. Don't turn this into a political agenda that has nothing to do with the East/West debate or you'll get kicked straight into the penalty box.

This has to be the third time this week I've had to give this warning. Next person to bring up USAPA in here gets 7 days in the penalty box. Period. Even if it's used benignly... Knock it off.