CAL-UAL Anti-RJ Proposal

[FO 4 Life]

You guys need to look at AA. When they tried to get the 70 seat RJs from Eagle, it wasn't the cost associated with the pilots, but all other groups that had a hand in the cookie jar. FAs, mechs, ground service, gate agents, etc.

Good luck on getting the cost comparable.

Side note, IMO anyone who has flown a RJ previous to their mainline gig (not post furlough) shouldn't be so hypocritical about "taking" the flying back. If you were that against it, you should have worked for an all TP company.

 

[pipejockey]

If we can get this done, others will follow and I truly believe the day of the regional jets will be gone. So I'd suggest filling out your application before I fill out mine.

You know, it's people like this that are a detriment to what it seems the CAL guys are trying to do. For the best chance for this to work, it is going to take the combined effort of ALL pilots, major and regional alike! Scaring the regional folks into believing that many of them will lose their jobs only keeps the bickering between pilot groups continuing. Just the way management wants it! We need to all direct our rage at management and not each other.

As far as the regional folks, it seems to me that they are merely taking the jobs at the airlines where the jobs are. And where they are, is at the scumbag bottom feeding puke regionals!! And it seems to me that they are there because the mainline pilots back in the 90's refused to do what was necessary to get the RJ's on property. You see, they couldn't be seen flying one of those RJ's. Bad for their reputation I suppose.

And these a**clowns like the poster I have quoted above do nothing but work against getting as much flying back to mainline, by scaring all the rj pilots. He says the day of the regional jet will be gone. What a totally ignorant and uneducated comment. First of all, what is an RJ? It seems to me that 90 seaters are being called rj's. So are we going to have 737's flying ORD-DSM? LAX-FAT? Thats just ludicrous. There will still be gobs of 50-70 seat regional jet flying. The regional jets aren't going anywhere, except hopefully under the control of mainline and flown by mainline pilots.

Now everybody thinks that this will be accomplished by furloughing 1000's of regional pilots and making everybody apply to mainline to get working again. This is also very shortsighted. If there were not so many mainline pilots furloughed right now, this would be easy. You just create a preferential HIRING process (not interview, after all, they are good enough to fly RJ's now, they will be good enough to fly them for mainline) based on seniority, for all the regional folks currently flying under the mainline colors. Where one would turn in his ID from the rinky dink regional he works for and picks up an ID for the mainline he now works for. Simple as that! But with the furloughs at mainline, it would require some sort of fences to be put up that would prevent 1000's of regional pilots from losing their jobs, after all, they merely took the jobs at the airlines where mainline management put them.

By working together, we can make this happen! By throwing the regional pilot groups under the bus for some perceived wrong they personally did to the mainline pilots, even though it was mainline pilots who couldn't seem to give scope away fast enough in the 90's and after the bankruptcies of 2002-2005, isn't going to better the chances of ending all this outsourcing!

It just amazes me that the pilots at AA haven't even brought up the subject. As they are the only airline that has almost all of their flying done by 1 regional, and a wholly owned at that!

 

[nerjdriver]

I'm LOVING IT. Give us back OUR FLYING from the likes of express jet, BLOWJET, ASA, SKYWEST, Colgan, ********************aqua, Republic, SHuttle America, Mesa, and any of the other "Vendors" that enjoy our routes at our expense. Popcorn is popping this is going to be a great show!

Yes we love the routes YOU gave to us. There are two tragedies in life pal, not getting what you want and getting it.

Mainling got EXACTLY what they wanted when they were "too good" to fly the 50 seater.

Like you all have said so many times before, its damn near impossible to get something back youve already given up. Just PLEASE make sure anything bigger than 50 is flown by mainline.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Yes we love the routes YOU gave to us. There are two tragedies in life pal, not getting what you want and getting it.

Mainling got EXACTLY what they wanted when they were "too good" to fly the 50 seater.

Like you all have said so many times before, its damn near impossible to get something back youve already given up. Just PLEASE make sure anything bigger than 50 is flown by mainline.

I don't recall saying it's damn near impossible to get it back....you must have me confused with some other mainline pilot. Either way the routes that have been given to you will either be partially or totally taken back over time. Don't you know that SCOPE is the number one contract issue right not not number 2 not 3 or 4 it's number ONE!!!! With that said I would suggest you get out your camera at some of your favorite destinations start snapping pics, because in the future you will no longer be able to take them out of the pointy end of the airplane just the side. Or you could dust off you resume and apply. Either way I don't care. I will vote to shut the place down before I see one more route given away to the "backpackers."

 

[FLYLOW22]

If CAL-UAL wants to fly RJs, do it with YOUR PILOTS.

Reintroduce the term Small Jets with mainline pay.

 

[CLARKGRSWOLD]

I don't recall saying it's damn near impossible to get it back....you must have me confused with some other mainline pilot. Either way the routes that have been given to you will either be partially or totally taken back over time. Don't you know that SCOPE is the number one contract issue right not not number 2 not 3 or 4 it's number ONE!!!! With that said I would suggest you get out your camera at some of your favorite destinations start snapping pics, because in the future you will no longer be able to take them out of the pointy end of the airplane just the side. Or you could dust off you resume and apply. Either way I don't care. I will vote to shut the place down before I see one more route given away to the "backpackers."

Ha, I was walking in ORD yesterday, and I saw UAL mainwhiner with a backpack and a IPOD on. OH the photos about our favorite places, yea we love ATL, DSM,CAK,CLE,DTW

 

[Spicepilots]

As a regional pilot, I am appalled at how much vindictiveness seems to be out there.

News flash: I don't use a backpack except when out hiking, I don't use hair gel, my shoes are always shined and my shirt always pressed, and I didn't dream of flying an RJ for $40 an hour when I was growing up. I was in high school when the pilots at the majors deemed the "Barbie Jet" too insignificant to fly themselves. If I could have gotten on at a major with 500 or 1000 hours like pilots did in the 90's, I would have done so gladly. Post 911, I was competing with 10,000 hour ATPs for right seat corporate and TP cargo outfits. Getting hired at Great Lakes was an accomplishment then (!) Sorry I didn't decide take the sacrifice some of you guys are alluding to and sit out the regionals in blind hopes that just towing banners and instructing would get me to where I wanted to be eventually.

I have always wanted to get on at a major carrier. I am, however, very very tired and wary of this attitude that I, the EVIL REGIONAL PILOT am somehow the enemy. Your management, with their golden parachutes and their penthouse offices, they are the enemy. The public, who don't care if they're treated like slime and packed like sardines as long as the ticket was $5 cheaper, they are the enemy. We as pilots in general are losing the PR battle while squabbling over "my flying". Sully had the golden moment, the center stage and the public support to point to his (entire) crew's actions and saying "See, this is why we should be properly compensated and respected! Not just for the thousands of times passengers arrive safely EVERY DAY but also for the few times your life might seriously be in jeopardy and we do what we are trained to do." Instead he thumped his chest and maligned regional pilots. Repeatedly. My problem with him is not his suggestion that the public pay more for more experience, I'm all for it. My problem is his overt message is that somehow the only skilled pilots are at mainline. And that ALL pilots at mainline carriers are so skilled. We ALL know that's not the truth.

Do I wish things were different in this industry? Of course I do! I'll say it again, I DO NOT WANT MY CAREER TO BE AT THE REGIONALS. This is supposed to be a stepping stone. It seems to me, however, that the same "pull up the ladder now that I've got mine" mentality that led to 65 exists here. Don't get me wrong, I'd gladly support this if it were actually about making the entire pilot profession stronger, but it's not, as evidenced by the "F the regional pilots" statements here. More than anything else, I wish your managements at AA, Delta, CAL, USAir, and United could figure out a way to actually MAKE MONEY so that they didn't have to outsource, but supply and demand, low barriers to entry in the marketplace, the ability to grease palms at the FAA and cut corners with MX (Southwest) and training (Colgan) and your own overall bloated cost structures, starting at the top with the (mis)management have made it difficult or near impossible over the last, oh, THIRTY YEARS since de-regulation. I feel like nobody else out there took basic economics. What is saddest is that CAL ALPA feel like they can now make the argument that their pay is so low that they can compete with regionals in terms of crew costs... BUT it's not just about the pilot pay. And in a perfect world, there would be no ValueJets, RyanAirs, Southwests, Skybuses, and we could all be protected professionals in a guild and our companies could all charge what it actually costs to provide the level of service we offer. But it's not a perfect world, and wishing won't make it so. So please stop acting like 50 seat scope and bringing the RJ's to mainline will be your panacea.

 

[whatitdoing?]

Huge paycut? I make 76 bucks or so an hour at CAL. I'd be a 13 year Capt at ASA if I didn't leave.....so that's 82 or 85??? The economics aren't there with the 50 seater, but 70+ there's quite a lot of incentive. That's what we're after. A major will see that by bringing over a/c that are close to a 737, but flown by mainline pilots while not having to pay any fees to a regional.......will be cost beneficial. I truly believe the day of the regional airline will end in the next 5-10 years. This is the start.

 

[Yuppyguppy]

Here's to ending regional airline flying!!!! Cheers brother!

 

[Spicepilots]

Fine. Scope is where it's at. For argument's sake, will you also negotiate an end to code share? Having a 70-100 seat jet rate means nothing if your management can turn around and say, code share your domestic flying with Republic/Frontier?

 

[luckytohaveajob]

Scope is the #1 issue. But solving it by asking management to allow FFD contracts to expire and then be assumed by the brand is ludicrous.

Why don't we just ask for world peace while we are at it?

Airlines do very little innovation and have extremely static business plans. Changes like these are five to 10 years of strategy in the making not a union lead request.

Asking for CAL scope at UAL is aggressive but asking for the elimination of all out sourced flying is like asking for the eliminating of all nuclear weapons. Highly unlikely.

 

[johnsonrod]

I have a feeling CAL/UAL MECs will be looking at what the current rate for the regional pilots flying E170s and CR9s right now, and then go for those rates. Thanks to recent stagnation, the pilots flying those planes currently are making higher pay than a few years ago, and that is probably where the MECs will start. It won't be $50 an hour to fly left seat in an E170, rather closer to $80 or $85 an hour for Shuttle America or SkyWest pilots (CR9s) flying the largest equipment they have. They don't have to start over with rates, just look at what is the current market rate, and those guys flying them have been at the Regionals for awhile now.

 

[ASA Captain]

For the record, ASA CR7/9 12 year Captain = $88.29

Yah, shut the place down. HA!

Good luck. Either way I benefit. You get scope, more jobs at the major. You relax scope I have a better career here. Thanks for playing.

 

[johnsonrod]

For the record, ASA CR7/9 12 year Captain = $88.29

Yah, shut the place down. HA!

Good luck. Either way I benefit. You get scope, more jobs at the major. You relax scope I have a better career here. Thanks for playing.

You can have a job after the furloughed pilots come back. But prior to that, you may have to work at the post office. Don't go POSTAL!

 

[doh]

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