CAL-UAL Anti-RJ Proposal

[waveflyer]

Right-
and what happens if Bruce Willis doesn't stop that meteor?

 

[aviator202]

LOL!!!!.....Great response!!!!

Probably unlikely....but I was trying to illustrate that if mainline pilots have an advantage or leverage...it is at best very temporary....

Just as it is unlikely that airline profits will remain in an era of dubious economic conditions....

But hey!....Just ASK management to eliminate all regional flying and take everything in house....sure they will, just because mainline pilots are fed up....

As if they care how fed up you all are....

As if you can actually force them to...

As if you are actually willing to put big bucks where your mouth is...

As if mainline pilots could actually pull off a successful strike...

Riiiiiiiiight!!!!

My oil scenario is more likely...lolol!!!

 

[HHH]

Sorry guppy. It is negotiable because you will have to negotiate to get it. You can strike over it if you ever get released by the NMB, but will have to buy it back. It was taken from you, but you will have to buy it back. That's how this game works.

You can strike over it. Cost the company hundreds of millions of dollars, throw away the rest of your career or you will negotiate for it like everything else.

You can pound it into the keyboard if you like, but you might as well be pounding sand.

Look, I think this should have been done long ago. Oh well. I think it should be done now, but pretending your going to get back years of bankruptcy forced cuts and corporate outsourcing in one fell swoop just because you say so? Get real.

Certainly this can be done over many years as the FFD contracts expire and leases are renewed, but the company know exactly how many millions it saves them paying me peanuts to fly an airplane that should have been at mainline the whole time. We are just a C scale. If you want it back bad enough you will get it, but at what cost. Pay rates. Retirement. Benefits. Schedule improvements. It is all on the table and there is only so many chips to be played.

What I think should happen is our MEC's should talk about this, seriously. I don't want your )$/&;$$; seniority. Get over it. That is not what this is about.

If you really want to solve the issue without buying every ;&($$;$ dime of it, you should meet with the regional MEC's and get them on board. Look, it means better job prospects for most of us. If some old time lifers want to stay that is their choice. They will be flying what is left.

What you should do is work with the MEC's and work towards a common purpose. As the FFD contracts expire the aircraft that get pulled into mainline bring x number of new hire pilots, subject to screening, of course. Kind of a flowthrough, but not exactly.

The reason to get the regionals on board, is we can support this from the bottom. If this gets ugly, and it easily could, there will be some bottom feeders who lowball bid the flying, making it harder and harder for your negotiating team to justify the change.

You can, and probably will, completely ignore my thoughts on the subject. It doesn't matter to me either way. I will eventually get where I am going. I will probably get there the old fashioned way. By the time this could even go through, I could be gone and some other punk kid who is now flying a 150 in the Texas heat will be here to benefit from this change.

I just think we should all set aside the divisive ranker and actually do something that union brothers are supposed to do: work as one.

Single seniority list between UAL and its feeders SHOULD NOT and WOULD NOT happen. First, an improved scope must be negotiated. Then UAL hires whoever they want.

Doom and gloom scenarios such as 7000 pilots being suddenly furloughed are unrealistic. This process will take a few years, with the outcome known to everyone.

Regardless, UAL has the right to screen and choose who they hire. Though I believe that many regional pilots are excellent aviators and will make great pilots at UAL - NONE of them are entitled to a free ride to a legacy. There are many other pilots - military, corporate, etc. - that should have a fair chance as well. Regional pilots, particularly from UAL feeders, must interview and compete like everyone else.

 

[ASA Captain]

Why must I repeat myself.....

....subject to screening.......

You guys are so paranoid that someone wants to get in for free.

RTFP.

 

[davessn763]

GOODBYE SPIKED HAIR AND BACKPACKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Oh--and take your Ipod with you!

Those guys are all at majors now. I saw an "Emo" haircut on a colgan guy the other day, makes me wanna puke!

 

[Jetjockey]

LOL!!!!.....Great response!!!!

Probably unlikely....but I was trying to illustrate that if mainline pilots have an advantage or leverage...it is at best very temporary....

Just as it is unlikely that airline profits will remain in an era of dubious economic conditions....

But hey!....Just ASK management to eliminate all regional flying and take everything in house....sure they will, just because mainline pilots are fed up....

As if they care how fed up you all are....

As if you can actually force them to...

As if you are actually willing to put big bucks where your mouth is...

As if mainline pilots could actually pull off a successful strike...

Riiiiiiiiight!!!!

My oil scenario is more likely...lolol!!!

Looking at your profile, I doubt you have any clue how an airline works. I think your pager is going off for another part 135 charter there Skippy.

Speak of things you know.

 

[aviator202]

Hey Snoopy!!!!

Know the definition of an ad hominem attack?

Yeah, you looked at my profile and decided that is was best to attack me...and not my arguments.

What's wrong?...Not smart enough to mount a convincing reply?

Tell you what Snoopy....Grow up, realize I am smarter than you....and get some help forming a cogent response...

(Read your profile...hahahahhaha.....and you think what I wrote is all there is to me?....hahahahaha)

 

[Jetjockey]

LOL!!!!.....Great response!!!!

Probably unlikely....but I was trying to illustrate that if mainline pilots have an advantage or leverage...it is at best very temporary....

Just as it is unlikely that airline profits will remain in an era of dubious economic conditions....

But hey!....Just ASK management to eliminate all regional flying and take everything in house....sure they will, just because mainline pilots are fed up....

As if they care how fed up you all are....

As if you can actually force them to...

As if you are actually willing to put big bucks where your mouth is...

As if mainline pilots could actually pull off a successful strike...

Riiiiiiiiight!!!!

My oil scenario is more likely...lolol!!!

Lol?? Did you borrow that from your teenage daughter's vernacular?

Like I said, you probably have NO experience in an airline crew environment but will try to explain this as simple as I can for your small IQ.

The combined pilots at UAL/CAL have leverage. If you haven't noticed the pendulum for labor is shifting in our favor. Airline revenue is on the upswing, and once the economy hits full stride with a recovery that revenue picture improves even more. All pilots have given until it hurts, some with their entire careers. Concessions stands are closed. We are getting back what was taken, and then some.

We are NOT asking management, we are telling them. LOUD AND CLEAR what we expect, and will not settle for less.

We will force our issues, we will prevail, and if it comes to a strike I'm ready. You can doubt that all you want. Personally I know management trolls these boards to stir up crap.

Now why don't you enlighten us with your stellar background Mr. Dispatcher. Mine is simple. 26 years of flying with 21 of that flying for airlines. The argumentum ad hominem is not always fallacious, for in some instances questions of personal conduct, character, motives, etc., are legitimate and relevant to the issue.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem#cite_note-2

 

[aviator202]

News Flash to Snoopy: Charlie Schultz has been dead a looooong time

Sure...Mainline pilots at UAL/CAL have some temporary leverage during the merger....use it well, you won't have another chance for a VERY long time...

Airline revenue and profitability has risen as of late....great! that means it will continue forever and ever, right?....Look out your window Snoopy, the ole U S of A economy is having a real crisis right now....Expect it to affect this industry...These recent profits are fragile....

Yeah, you've taken 'till it hurts.....again, so what?

Take some more....And that's not my view, it's management's

So go ahead, TAKE YOUR FLYING BACK.....but like any business decision, it will COST YOU.....oh something on the order of 35% of your total current
compensation...

Yeah, you are loud.....again, so what?

Life is FULL of unmet expectations....Bet all your ex-wives could attest to that.....lolol

So strike....Remember Eastern?.....Yeah, I do......months and months later one or two guys with signs hanging around the airport.....How'd that work out for you?....Yeah, I thought so......

You'll do what you always do....management will wave big bucks or a pension plan under the senior guys snoots....with a promise of bigger airplanes.....and you'll all fold like a cheap suit....

Just remember.....the regionals were the safety valve for mainline pilots.....your compensation got to stay much, much higher.....because regional pilots were much, much lower....when they are gone and can't take the heat for you.....well now, expect to take it in the shorts...

I am so impressed with your 26 years of nose riding and breathing kerosene fumes....gee golly whiz.....

Seeeee, I can be just as snide as you.....

Look, hothead.....settle down and rationally debate.....remember your blood pressure, you have a medical due.....wouldn't want to flunk it

 

[FLYLOW22]

Those guys are all at majors now. I saw an "Emo" haircut on a colgan guy the other day, makes me wanna puke!

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://emoboy.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/emo_hairstyle.jpg&imgrefurl=http://emoboy.net/2010/07/05/july-5th-emo-boy-pics/&usg=__-sRgEB1fas8WIqphSw4yurOjD30=&h=450&w=600&sz=78&hl=en&start=11&sig2=V0wOkfg_lFCJphLV1r4FTQ&zoom=1&tbnid=JDyBsTuyDISTuM:&tbnh=101&tbnw=135&ei=YEB9TJSqB6i1nAfsipDzDA&prev=/images%3Fq%3Demo%2Bboy%2Bhaircut%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26safe%3Doff%26sa%3DX%26biw%3D1280%26bih%3D657%26tbs%3Disch:1&um=1&itbs=1


Not sure but I think I'd kneel down on the ground, let you push him over on the terminal floor and then we'd pretty much take terms kicking him in his non-existent boy grapes if I every saw that on a pilot in uniform.

Yeah. I would.

That haircut just screams Code Red.

 

[Jetjockey]

News Flash to Snoopy: Charlie Schultz has been dead a looooong time

Uh, thanks Mr. Obvious. Any other shining pearls of wisdom you care to share?

Sure...Mainline pilots at UAL/CAL have some temporary leverage during the merger....use it well, you won't have another chance for a VERY long time...

Define VERY long time. Everything is in 10 year cycles it seems, and I fully expect to regain the losses incurred over previous 10 years.

Airline revenue and profitability has risen as of late....great! that means it will continue forever and ever, right?....Look out your window Snoopy, the ole U S of A economy is having a real crisis right now....Expect it to affect this industry...These recent profits are fragile....

The economy is recovering from a crisis, all guidance is generally trending up.

Yeah, you've taken 'till it hurts.....again, so what? Take some more....And that's not my view, it's management's

True, in business who cares? Typical ivy league MBA though process. If you don't think employee morale effects productivity you are bigger dolt than I already suspect.

TAKE YOUR FLYING BACK.....but like any business decision, it will COST YOU.....oh something on the order of 35% of your total current
compensation...

I don't where you pulled that number from, but put it back because it smells worse than your chronic halitosis smoker's breath! It's gonna cost someone, but that will be the price of doing business. The pilot's are done giving.

Yeah, you are loud.....again, so what?

You think this is loud, It's only a 4, and mine goes to 11!

Life is FULL of unmet expectations....Bet all your ex-wives could attest to that.....lolol

Nice try Desk guy extraordinaire, One wife, 20 years and career is way better than mine. I'm sure you couldn't imagine pleasing a woman for 20 years. I bet 20 minutes is a perilous stunt for you.

So strike....Remember Eastern?.....Yeah, I do......months and months later one or two guys with signs hanging around the airport.....How'd that work out for you?....Yeah, I thought so......

I never worked for Eastern, but I'm sure plenty of pilots here have. Ask that question to them. It sucked we had a anti-labor administration and a crook who was allowed to pillage and rape unabated. Hard to fight those odds, but then again I'm sure you couldn't understand fighting for labor rights. You have a prevailing kissass attitude that leans heavily toward management, with anti-labor tones.

You'll do what you always do....management will wave big bucks or a pension plan under the senior guys snoots....with a promise of bigger airplanes.....and you'll all fold like a cheap suit....

Guess again. Scope is number one.......count on it. Then again, how would you know paper pusher?

ust remember.....the regionals were the safety valve for mainline pilots.....your compensation got to stay much, much higher.....because regional pilots were much, much lower....when they are gone and can't take the heat for you.....well now, expect to take it in the shorts...

Better get more dispatching experience and apply to the majors. ASA might not be as big as they are now. Good luck.

I am so impressed with your 26 years of nose riding and breathing kerosene fumes....gee golly whiz.....

Why thank you, you may kiss my feet. I know growing up I said, no......I don't want to fly the planes, I want to sit in an office and watch them on a computer screen.

Seeeee, I can be just as snide as you.....

Hardly.

Look, hothead.....settle down and rationally debate.....remember your blood pressure, you have a medical due.....wouldn't want to flunk it

Blood pressure is great. This doesn't even register the slightest bump. I enjoy this. Now, get back to flight following.............er...I mean "dispatching". Whatcha got, about 12 CRJs tooling around?

 

[Homer Jay]

News Flash to Snoopy: Charlie Schultz has been dead a looooong time

Sure...Mainline pilots at UAL/CAL have some temporary leverage during the merger....use it well, you won't have another chance for a VERY long time...

Airline revenue and profitability has risen as of late....great! that means it will continue forever and ever, right?....Look out your window Snoopy, the ole U S of A economy is having a real crisis right now....Expect it to affect this industry...These recent profits are fragile....

Yeah, you've taken 'till it hurts.....again, so what?

Take some more....And that's not my view, it's management's

So go ahead, TAKE YOUR FLYING BACK.....but like any business decision, it will COST YOU.....oh something on the order of 35% of your total current
compensation...

Yeah, you are loud.....again, so what?

Life is FULL of unmet expectations....Bet all your ex-wives could attest to that.....lolol

So strike....Remember Eastern?.....Yeah, I do......months and months later one or two guys with signs hanging around the airport.....How'd that work out for you?....Yeah, I thought so......

You'll do what you always do....management will wave big bucks or a pension plan under the senior guys snoots....with a promise of bigger airplanes.....and you'll all fold like a cheap suit....

Just remember.....the regionals were the safety valve for mainline pilots.....your compensation got to stay much, much higher.....because regional pilots were much, much lower....when they are gone and can't take the heat for you.....well now, expect to take it in the shorts...

I am so impressed with your 26 years of nose riding and breathing kerosene fumes....gee golly whiz.....

Seeeee, I can be just as snide as you.....

Look, hothead.....settle down and rationally debate.....remember your blood pressure, you have a medical due.....wouldn't want to flunk it

I don't usually enter into someone else's pissing match, but you are WAY off your rocker. You honestly think we're going to have to give something back to tighten scope? Where have you been the last 9 years? You don't think we've given up enough since 9/11?

 

[aviator202]

Hey Snoopy....Guess what tough guy....Without my paperwork, you can't even push back from the gate....lololol

Guess what tough guy....you and I have to agree/concur on any given operation...That really chaps your backside doesn't it?...Can't fly without MY blessing....Yup, guess that makes you Superman, eh?

Nope, my great satisfaction in life is making you play Mother may I....lolol

Heck, that is WAY more fun than breathing kerosene smoke all day!!!

Keep beating your chest....It just makes you look funny..in the head

Anti labor...hell no, I just understand what NEGOTIATION means....

You think it means a display of imaginary testicular fortitude....

Negotiation is a quid quo pro....

So if you want something....something else is sacrificed...

The regionals didn't change compensation....deregulation did with the low, low, low fares it brought....

Open that door behind you and look at the real cause...all the pax who are paying WAY too little for their seat....THAT is REAL the problem

Scope, bah!.....You want to bring back pre-reg wages, bring back regulation....True, there will be less flying, fewer jobs, a smaller airline industry....but the people still working...much, much, much better wages.

Shut down the regionals because you're fed up?....hah!...Try not to get too angry and beat the wife again....I know she likes it but we all know about your lack of self-control...Think anger management classes

Tell you what Skippy/Snoopy....Spend less time being insulting and more time learning about the REAL nature of things....

 

[P38JLightning]

Not to mention that the MEC's opener is NOT an "anti-RJ" proposal by any means. It is merely an anti OUTSOURCED RJ proposal. BIG difference.

 

[General Lee]

Hey Snoopy....Guess what tough guy....Without my paperwork, you can't even push back from the gate....lololol

Guess what tough guy....you and I have to agree/concur on any given operation...That really chaps your backside doesn't it?...Can't fly without MY blessing....Yup, guess that makes you Superman, eh?

Nope, my great satisfaction in life is making you play Mother may I....lolol

Heck, that is WAY more fun than breathing kerosene smoke all day!!!

Keep beating your chest....It just makes you look funny..in the head

Anti labor...hell no, I just understand what NEGOTIATION means....

You think it means a display of imaginary testicular fortitude....

Negotiation is a quid quo pro....

So if you want something....something else is sacrificed...

The regionals didn't change compensation....deregulation did with the low, low, low fares it brought....

Open that door behind you and look at the real cause...all the pax who are paying WAY too little for their seat....THAT is REAL the problem

Scope, bah!.....You want to bring back pre-reg wages, bring back regulation....True, there will be less flying, fewer jobs, a smaller airline industry....but the people still working...much, much, much better wages.

Shut down the regionals because you're fed up?....hah!...Try not to get too angry and beat the wife again....I know she likes it but we all know about your lack of self-control...Think anger management classes

Tell you what Skippy/Snoopy....Spend less time being insulting and more time learning about the REAL nature of things....

What you seem to lack is the understanding that management wants BIG BONUSES for a successful merger. Wall Street wants this. They don't want a USAIr fiasco. So, the leverage is currently with the pilots, because a dragged out mess would MESS with management's XMAS bonuses, and then they don't get "kissed" by their wives, etc..... So, it really AINT a negotiation where you have to give up much at all. That really is the REAL nature of things. It's called leverage, look it up. Wall Street called, they want a clean merger.


Bye Bye--General Lee