CAL-UAL Anti-RJ Proposal

[Jetjockey]

News Flash to Snoopy: Charlie Schultz has been dead a looooong time

Uh, thanks Mr. Obvious. Any other shining pearls of wisdom you care to share?

Sure...Mainline pilots at UAL/CAL have some temporary leverage during the merger....use it well, you won't have another chance for a VERY long time...

Define VERY long time. Everything is in 10 year cycles it seems, and I fully expect to regain the losses incurred over previous 10 years.

Airline revenue and profitability has risen as of late....great! that means it will continue forever and ever, right?....Look out your window Snoopy, the ole U S of A economy is having a real crisis right now....Expect it to affect this industry...These recent profits are fragile....

The economy is recovering from a crisis, all guidance is generally trending up.

Yeah, you've taken 'till it hurts.....again, so what? Take some more....And that's not my view, it's management's

True, in business who cares? Typical ivy league MBA though process. If you don't think employee morale effects productivity you are bigger dolt than I already suspect.

TAKE YOUR FLYING BACK.....but like any business decision, it will COST YOU.....oh something on the order of 35% of your total current
compensation...

I don't where you pulled that number from, but put it back because it smells worse than your chronic halitosis smoker's breath! It's gonna cost someone, but that will be the price of doing business. The pilot's are done giving.

Yeah, you are loud.....again, so what?

You think this is loud, It's only a 4, and mine goes to 11!

Life is FULL of unmet expectations....Bet all your ex-wives could attest to that.....lolol

Nice try Desk guy extraordinaire, One wife, 20 years and career is way better than mine. I'm sure you couldn't imagine pleasing a woman for 20 years. I bet 20 minutes is a perilous stunt for you.

So strike....Remember Eastern?.....Yeah, I do......months and months later one or two guys with signs hanging around the airport.....How'd that work out for you?....Yeah, I thought so......

I never worked for Eastern, but I'm sure plenty of pilots here have. Ask that question to them. It sucked we had a anti-labor administration and a crook who was allowed to pillage and rape unabated. Hard to fight those odds, but then again I'm sure you couldn't understand fighting for labor rights. You have a prevailing kissass attitude that leans heavily toward management, with anti-labor tones.

You'll do what you always do....management will wave big bucks or a pension plan under the senior guys snoots....with a promise of bigger airplanes.....and you'll all fold like a cheap suit....

Guess again. Scope is number one.......count on it. Then again, how would you know paper pusher?

ust remember.....the regionals were the safety valve for mainline pilots.....your compensation got to stay much, much higher.....because regional pilots were much, much lower....when they are gone and can't take the heat for you.....well now, expect to take it in the shorts...

Better get more dispatching experience and apply to the majors. ASA might not be as big as they are now. Good luck.

I am so impressed with your 26 years of nose riding and breathing kerosene fumes....gee golly whiz.....

Why thank you, you may kiss my feet. I know growing up I said, no......I don't want to fly the planes, I want to sit in an office and watch them on a computer screen.

Seeeee, I can be just as snide as you.....

Hardly.

Look, hothead.....settle down and rationally debate.....remember your blood pressure, you have a medical due.....wouldn't want to flunk it

Blood pressure is great. This doesn't even register the slightest bump. I enjoy this. Now, get back to flight following.............er...I mean "dispatching". Whatcha got, about 12 CRJs tooling around?

 

[Homer Jay]

News Flash to Snoopy: Charlie Schultz has been dead a looooong time

Sure...Mainline pilots at UAL/CAL have some temporary leverage during the merger....use it well, you won't have another chance for a VERY long time...

Airline revenue and profitability has risen as of late....great! that means it will continue forever and ever, right?....Look out your window Snoopy, the ole U S of A economy is having a real crisis right now....Expect it to affect this industry...These recent profits are fragile....

Yeah, you've taken 'till it hurts.....again, so what?

Take some more....And that's not my view, it's management's

So go ahead, TAKE YOUR FLYING BACK.....but like any business decision, it will COST YOU.....oh something on the order of 35% of your total current
compensation...

Yeah, you are loud.....again, so what?

Life is FULL of unmet expectations....Bet all your ex-wives could attest to that.....lolol

So strike....Remember Eastern?.....Yeah, I do......months and months later one or two guys with signs hanging around the airport.....How'd that work out for you?....Yeah, I thought so......

You'll do what you always do....management will wave big bucks or a pension plan under the senior guys snoots....with a promise of bigger airplanes.....and you'll all fold like a cheap suit....

Just remember.....the regionals were the safety valve for mainline pilots.....your compensation got to stay much, much higher.....because regional pilots were much, much lower....when they are gone and can't take the heat for you.....well now, expect to take it in the shorts...

I am so impressed with your 26 years of nose riding and breathing kerosene fumes....gee golly whiz.....

Seeeee, I can be just as snide as you.....

Look, hothead.....settle down and rationally debate.....remember your blood pressure, you have a medical due.....wouldn't want to flunk it

I don't usually enter into someone else's pissing match, but you are WAY off your rocker. You honestly think we're going to have to give something back to tighten scope? Where have you been the last 9 years? You don't think we've given up enough since 9/11?

 

[aviator202]

Hey Snoopy....Guess what tough guy....Without my paperwork, you can't even push back from the gate....lololol

Guess what tough guy....you and I have to agree/concur on any given operation...That really chaps your backside doesn't it?...Can't fly without MY blessing....Yup, guess that makes you Superman, eh?

Nope, my great satisfaction in life is making you play Mother may I....lolol

Heck, that is WAY more fun than breathing kerosene smoke all day!!!

Keep beating your chest....It just makes you look funny..in the head

Anti labor...hell no, I just understand what NEGOTIATION means....

You think it means a display of imaginary testicular fortitude....

Negotiation is a quid quo pro....

So if you want something....something else is sacrificed...

The regionals didn't change compensation....deregulation did with the low, low, low fares it brought....

Open that door behind you and look at the real cause...all the pax who are paying WAY too little for their seat....THAT is REAL the problem

Scope, bah!.....You want to bring back pre-reg wages, bring back regulation....True, there will be less flying, fewer jobs, a smaller airline industry....but the people still working...much, much, much better wages.

Shut down the regionals because you're fed up?....hah!...Try not to get too angry and beat the wife again....I know she likes it but we all know about your lack of self-control...Think anger management classes

Tell you what Skippy/Snoopy....Spend less time being insulting and more time learning about the REAL nature of things....

 

[P38JLightning]

Not to mention that the MEC's opener is NOT an "anti-RJ" proposal by any means. It is merely an anti OUTSOURCED RJ proposal. BIG difference.

 

[General Lee]

Hey Snoopy....Guess what tough guy....Without my paperwork, you can't even push back from the gate....lololol

Guess what tough guy....you and I have to agree/concur on any given operation...That really chaps your backside doesn't it?...Can't fly without MY blessing....Yup, guess that makes you Superman, eh?

Nope, my great satisfaction in life is making you play Mother may I....lolol

Heck, that is WAY more fun than breathing kerosene smoke all day!!!

Keep beating your chest....It just makes you look funny..in the head

Anti labor...hell no, I just understand what NEGOTIATION means....

You think it means a display of imaginary testicular fortitude....

Negotiation is a quid quo pro....

So if you want something....something else is sacrificed...

The regionals didn't change compensation....deregulation did with the low, low, low fares it brought....

Open that door behind you and look at the real cause...all the pax who are paying WAY too little for their seat....THAT is REAL the problem

Scope, bah!.....You want to bring back pre-reg wages, bring back regulation....True, there will be less flying, fewer jobs, a smaller airline industry....but the people still working...much, much, much better wages.

Shut down the regionals because you're fed up?....hah!...Try not to get too angry and beat the wife again....I know she likes it but we all know about your lack of self-control...Think anger management classes

Tell you what Skippy/Snoopy....Spend less time being insulting and more time learning about the REAL nature of things....

What you seem to lack is the understanding that management wants BIG BONUSES for a successful merger. Wall Street wants this. They don't want a USAIr fiasco. So, the leverage is currently with the pilots, because a dragged out mess would MESS with management's XMAS bonuses, and then they don't get "kissed" by their wives, etc..... So, it really AINT a negotiation where you have to give up much at all. That really is the REAL nature of things. It's called leverage, look it up. Wall Street called, they want a clean merger.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[aviator202]

To quote Peanuts: Good Grief General Lee

Thanks for the cogent,precise response. Too bad Snoopy/Skippy couldn't come up with anything even close.

General Lee...you do make sense on your points...I doff my hat.

I don't completely agree...but I will give your response serious consideration.

Guess I am so used to United management bending the pilots over that it is hard for me to conceive of a different outcome.

That is all.

 

[Jetjockey]

Aww the dispatcher is going to hurt my feelings...............................if I had any.

Welcome to the boards Newbie.

 

[ASA Captain]

If you think this contract will be worked out by Christmas, you have been sniffing glue.

 

[shindler]

gotta quit with the fu&@ing RJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
the whole country has been flown on RJ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
A coast to coast trip can be flown with 2 rj and 1 damn stop.
STOP THE RACE TO THE BOTTOM and th fu@&ers old fart who sits on the left seat of one of those RJ because couldn't get hired anywhere else who says:
well, if you don't like just quit or became a lawyer..
Ass&@les

 

[Patriot328]

One would figure this dispatcher would be all for us pilots retaining more flying. More flying = more pilots/fas/dispatchers/etc...

Unless he's a regional dispatcher I guess... But then, mainline will need more dispatchers and he could *GASP* make better money dispatching for a mainline carrier than trans states....

 

[Plug]

Reading through this thread I see a lot of mis-information. The merger between CAL/UAL has been approved by the BOD's, EU, and DOJ based on presentations by Jeff and Glenn. They are touting billions of $$$$$ as a combined unit. When your current/future CEO makes these presentations while entering section 6 negotiations the word "concession" is not part of any deal. Anything given up is a concession. Since we are in JCBA negotions you have to look at both contracts when deciding what a concession is. We here at CAL have a scope clause that prohibits outsourcing of jet aircraft with greater than 50 seats. Prior to JCBA negotiations we had never intended to give any relief on that. What makes you think we will give relief now? Our baseline for negotiations is a combination of the beneficial language of both contracts and anything less would be a concession. We have the financial data that says our individual airlines would survive just fine with out merging so it is in management's best interest to respect the position of strength the pilots have. The NMB is also pro-labor so that helps as well.

 

[General Lee]

If you think this contract will be worked out by Christmas, you have been sniffing glue.

Maybe you don't understand ALSO, the management types want this DONE ASAP, because WALL ST. wants it done ASAP. This AINT normal contract talks that last 5 years. Bonuses are on the line here. The faster the SOC (Single Operating Certificate), the larger the bonus. A joint Contract comes first, and Wall St and the hedge fund people who are really running the show anyway want to see a smooth ride. Delta is worth twice what CAL and UAL are worth now, combined. That means a lot of money down the road if they can have a SMOOTH transition. Look at the market caps for Delta and then UAL and CAL together. Wall Street wanted this to happen, and the management will be rewarded if it goes smoothly. That is called leverage.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

To quote Peanuts: Good Grief General Lee

Thanks for the cogent,precise response. Too bad Snoopy/Skippy couldn't come up with anything even close.

General Lee...you do make sense on your points...I doff my hat.

I don't completely agree...but I will give your response serious consideration.

Guess I am so used to United management bending the pilots over that it is hard for me to conceive of a different outcome.

That is all.

Well, thanks I guess. Look, this would be the time for ANY union at an airline to go for whatever they could, because management is looking for a smooth transitions and their own bonuses. That doesn't mean unions will get everything they want, but I bet they will get a lot more than usual contract talks. When DL/NWA did their joint contract, oil was at $130 a barrel, which meant bad timing. The timing now for UAL and CAL looks a lot better.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[waveflyer]

Maybe you don't understand ALSO, the management types want this DONE ASAP, because WALL ST. wants it done ASAP. This AINT normal contract talks that last 5 years. Bonuses are on the line here. The faster the SOC (Single Operating Certificate), the larger the bonus. A joint Contract comes first, and Wall St and the hedge fund people who are really running the show anyway want to see a smooth ride. Delta is worth twice what CAL and UAL are worth now, combined. That means a lot of money down the road if they can have a SMOOTH transition. Look at the market caps for Delta and then UAL and CAL together. Wall Street wanted this to happen, and the management will be rewarded if it goes smoothly. That is called leverage.


Bye Bye--General Lee

which begs the question... Why didn't delta work for some scope takeback?
My answer bc you don't care as long as those widebodies keep flying
what's your answer gen?

 

[Plug]

which begs the question... Why didn't delta work for some scope takeback?
My answer bc you don't care as long as those widebodies keep flying
what's your answer gen?

They (DAL/NWA) didn't have the leverage that we (CAL/UAL) have. Also, CAL is the last of the legacy carriers to have no more than 50 seats in our scope section. Neither DAL or NWA could claim the same. Since we (CAL) have it now we don't plan on conceding it on the JCBA because this combined company will supposedly generate billions $$$$$$$ in synergies, etc. It certainly won't stop management from trying though.

 

[BlackPilot628]

I think this could be a good thing for the industry....Lets remember that the mainline guys pissed on the small Jet flying and need to learn to blame themselves. With that said, I am in FULL support of you guys realizing that you made a mistake and wanted to fix that mistake. I expect that your rates on the 70+ seats will be that of the DC9-10's and F28/F100 rates pre 2000. Because you DO NOT want to help the "race to the bottom".
Making narrow-body rates on the 70+ seaters would be kick aszz. I sure you guys will make that happen.
Strike for Scope. WELL HELL YES!

 

[P38JLightning]

Since we (CAL) have it [51 and up seat scope] now we don't plan on conceding it on the JCBA because this combined company will supposedly generate billions $$$$$$$ in synergies, etc.

Love it. Throw that back in their faces every time they squeal about how expensive it is for an airline to actually fly it's own airplanes.

 

[contrail67]

They (DAL/NWA) didn't have the leverage that we (CAL/UAL) have. Also, CAL is the last of the legacy carriers to have no more than 50 seats in our scope section. Neither DAL or NWA could claim the same. Since we (CAL) have it now we don't plan on conceding it on the JCBA because this combined company will supposedly generate billions $$$$$$$ in synergies, etc. It certainly won't stop management from trying though.

We are all about to see the strength in the United merger...

The last place I would want to be right now is in an RJ.

 

[hyflyin]

Delta's Comair unit to cut jobs, fleet size

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Delta Air Lines, Inc.
DAL.N
$10.68
+0.22+2.10%

Wed Sep 1, 2010 6:35pm EDT
* Most 50-seat planes being retired

* Fleet to shrink to 44 by end 2012 from 97 now

* No specifics on job cuts

ATLANTA, Sept 1 (Reuters) - Delta Air Lines Inc's (DAL.N) Comair regional subsidiary plans to cut jobs and reduce the size of its airplane fleet by more than half to lower costs, the carrier said on Wednesday.

In a memo to staff, Comair said it would retire most of its aging 50-seat jets in 2011 and 2012 and cut staff as the regional airline shrinks.

Comair, which has about 2,600 workers, did not comment on the number of planned job cuts but said the reductions would affect all departments.

"Our current cost structure -- which remains approximately 20 percent higher than our peers on a cost-per-block-hour basis -- does not enable us to be competitive in the current industry environment," Comair President John Bendoraitis said in a memo outlining the changes.

By the end of 2012, Comair expects to operate a total of 44 aircraft, down from 97 planes now, a spokeswoman said.

Delta sold its Mesaba and Compass regional units in July and had shopped around Comair [ID:nN01115223].

"Absent any action on our part to change our current direction, our future will remain in question," Bendoraitis said in the staff memo. (Reporting by Karen Jacobs; Editing by Richard Chang)

 

[Jetjockey]

Economics are forcing the 50 seaters out. Above 50 seats belongs to mainline. End of story, next section of the contract please.