Bull Sh*t Resumes

[FN FAL]

Hiring Now for Flight Officer Positions!
Louisville, KY UNITED STATES
Minimum Requirements:

• Hold a current FAA First Class Medical Certificate
• Hold a current ATP certificate OR hold an ATP written with a commercial pilot airplane multiengine land certificate with instrument certificate
• Hold a current flight engineer written or current flight engineer certificate
• Have a minimum of 1500 hours of total flight time
• Have a minimum of 1000 hours pilot in command (PIC) hours in fixed-
  wing jet and/or fixed-wing multi-engine turboprop.

• To have and to hold...wasn't it Celine Dione that said, "Let dem touch dose tings!"?

 

[starvingcfi]

wow. dorky pilot series reincarnated

 

[a&p cfiguy]

If a CFI could not log PIC, what's the point of being a CFI?? I don't think there would be any! That's the traditional path of building time, get you CFI and instruct. I can't believe that some people would let their employer tell them what they can and cannot log! Give me a break! My logbook always stays at home in a safe place. What I put in my logbook is my business, noone elses! I would tell that employer to stick it where the sun don't shine. I'm giving instruction, I'm rated in the aircraft, I'm logging PIC! I still don't see how that looks shady!

 

[atlcrashpad]

Employer

If a CFI could not log PIC, what's the point of being a CFI?? I don't think there would be any! That's the traditional path of building time, get you CFI and instruct. I can't believe that some people would let their employer tell them what they can and cannot log! Give me a break! My logbook always stays at home in a safe place. What I put in my logbook is my business, noone elses! I would tell that employer to stick it where the sun don't shine. I'm giving instruction, I'm rated in the aircraft, I'm logging PIC! I still don't see how that looks shady!

The FAA doesn't say you cannot log PIC from the right seat. The possible employer just won't count it. They can do what they want. SWA doesn't count Helicopter time or glider time. That's their right even though I have over 2000 hrs helicopter. Hey, that's not fair, 2000 off my totals doesn't make me as competitive anymore. Can I just log it as F/W PIC instead? Some of you might say "Yes".

And to respond to your statement of "What I put in my logbook is my business, noone elses!" The FAA has the right to inspect your log books, it is "Their" business.

 

[Rick1128]

ATL has made some good points. I currently and have in the past, been responsible for pilot hiring. One thing I do when I get resumes is to break them down into three groups. Prime Candidates, Will look at's and space cadets. I have a special filing place for space cadets. The biggest thing that will put a resume into my space cadet file is times that don't make sense compared to the flying the pilot is doing. Total time, PIC, instrument, night, etc should be of reasonable values. Example:

CFI from Florida 2000 TT 200 ME 260 Instrument

Commuter FO New England 2000 TT 500 ME 190 Instrument


Both of these pilots raise flags. Can you see why? The first one is way out of wack compared to his flying position and his area. How is he coming up with these times and what else is off? The second is quite low compared to his job. Is he in the habit of dodging trips?

It may seem unfair, but there is a great deal of competition for entry level pilot positions and one needs to thin out the pile quickly. Remember that the people looking at the resumes only spend on average less an a minute on each resume. If it seems out of the norms it is quite likely it will be discarded.

 

[Checks]

The whole Part 61 PIC as sole manipulator time is lame. Granted you are just ffollowing the regs but it is still lame. Same thing with sim time as total time..which it isnt!

 

[gkrangers]

ATL has made some good points. I currently and have in the past, been responsible for pilot hiring. One thing I do when I get resumes is to break them down into three groups. Prime Candidates, Will look at's and space cadets. I have a special filing place for space cadets. The biggest thing that will put a resume into my space cadet file is times that don't make sense compared to the flying the pilot is doing. Total time, PIC, instrument, night, etc should be of reasonable values. Example:

CFI from Florida 2000 TT 200 ME 260 Instrument

Commuter FO New England 2000 TT 500 ME 190 Instrument


Both of these pilots raise flags. Can you see why? The first one is way out of wack compared to his flying position and his area. How is he coming up with these times and what else is off? The second is quite low compared to his job. Is he in the habit of dodging trips?

It may seem unfair, but there is a great deal of competition for entry level pilot positions and one needs to thin out the pile quickly. Remember that the people looking at the resumes only spend on average less an a minute on each resume. If it seems out of the norms it is quite likely it will be discarded.

Is actual or simulated instrument specified?

 

[Standby 1]

Well for what it's worth, I understood what ATL meant from his original post on the subject. For that particular example's times, it looks fishy -- it would at least bear looking into to see if that person has been flying single pilot freight for the past few thousand hours.

It was obvious that the scenario presented does not have anything to do with low-time pilots (ie, 1500 hours or less, give or take) since the time discrepancy for them is the norm...not sure why people felt the need to argue the obvious there.

But with 4000+ hours, unless you were flying single pilot somewhere, you are going to end up with SIC time. That's kinda a given in most circumstances.


.

 

[gkrangers]

Well for what it's worth, I understood what ATL meant from his original post on the subject. For that particular example's times, it looks fishy -- it would at least bear looking into to see if that person has been flying single pilot freight for the past few thousand hours.

It was obvious that the scenario presented does not have anything to do with low-time pilots (ie, 1500 hours or less, give or take) since the time discrepancy for them is the norm...not sure why people felt the need to argue the obvious there.

But with 4000+ hours, unless you were flying single pilot somewhere, you are going to end up with SIC time. That's kinda a given in most circumstances.


.

Just for arguments sake...whats the difference between the 1500 hour low time CFI...and the 1500 hour CFI that got a job flying single pilot freight for a few years and now has 4000 hours?

I understand why they raise the BS flag, they have to in order to make their job tolerable and efficient...I would just hate to see my resume thrown in the garbage for something like this.

Anyone wanna let me fly a few hundred hours SIC for them?

 

[Standby 1]

Just for arguments sake...whats the difference between the 1500 hour low time CFI...and the 1500 hour CFI that got a job flying single pilot freight for a few years and now has 4000 hours?

I understand why they raise the BS flag, they have to in order to make their job tolerable and efficient...I would just hate to see my resume thrown in the garbage for something like this.

Anyone wanna let me fly a few hundred hours SIC for them?

Read my post again...did I not note the single pilot exception???



.

 

[gkrangers]

Read my post again...did I not note the single pilot exception???



.

I know. My point was are the interviewers checking to see if they have a ton of single pilot time, or just throwing out the resume without checking?

 

[Standby 1]

I know. My point was are the interviewers checking to see if they have a ton of single pilot time, or just throwing out the resume without checking?

On most resumes this would be clear under the "employment" portion of the resume. Eg:

American Check Transport Part 135
December 2000 - Present
MU-2 Pilot
Responsibilities: blah blah blah

ABC Flight School Part 61
April 1998 - December 2000
CFI, CFII, MEI
Responsibilities: yadda yadda yadda


Just an example. All this should be easily readable on your resume where the potential employer can scan down and see how and with what companies you obtained your flight time.

 

[minitour]

What raises eyebrows is a guy with 5000 hr TT and 4950 hr PIC. It's BS. Very rarely does a guy get his ratings in minimum times. Dual received should be logged as dual not PIC. If your a CFI, then PIC when instructing.

The regs don't have to say that I have to act as PIC when I'm giving instruction. Only that I can log PIC when I'm giving instruction.

Now, is most of my time as the CFI time acting and logging PIC time? Sure...I do lots of private pilot students. But what about instrument students? If we're only in simulated conditions with the student under the hood, I don't have to act as the PIC. Perfectly legal for him/her to log that time as 1.1 PIC as well as 61.51 "sole manipulator" PIC. How about commercial students before they transition to the complex airplane or after their endorsement? They can certainly act as PIC in those cases.

What I don't understand is why everyone makes a fuss about this stuff.

Here's my take on it...if there's a company out there that wants to second guess legally logged time, do I really want to work there? If they have a problem with legally logged flight time (as silly as that is), what other regs do they have a problem with? "MX issue...CND; Duty time...what's that?" Not saying that happens, but that would raise red flags for me...and afterall, it's my life on the line.

Don't take me wrong, I'm sure that's the HR/interviewers job to second guess it, but if I have a knowledge of my ops and the regs and can explain how it's legally loggable, I don't understand the problem.

That's my take on it anywho.

-mini

 

[atlcrashpad]

Acting? Logging?

The regs don't have to say that I have to act as PIC when I'm giving instruction. Only that I can log PIC when I'm giving instruction.

Now, is most of my time as the CFI time acting and logging PIC time? Sure...I do lots of private pilot students. But what about instrument students? If we're only in simulated conditions with the student under the hood, I don't have to act as the PIC. Perfectly legal for him/her to log that time as 1.1 PIC as well as 61.51 "sole manipulator" PIC. How about commercial students before they transition to the complex airplane or after their endorsement? They can certainly act as PIC in those cases.

What I don't understand is why everyone makes a fuss about this stuff.

Here's my take on it...if there's a company out there that wants to second guess legally logged time, do I really want to work there? If they have a problem with legally logged flight time (as silly as that is), what other regs do they have a problem with? "MX issue...CND; Duty time...what's that?" Not saying that happens, but that would raise red flags for me...and afterall, it's my life on the line.

Don't take me wrong, I'm sure that's the HR/interviewers job to second guess it, but if I have a knowledge of my ops and the regs and can explain how it's legally loggable, I don't understand the problem.

That's my take on it anywho.

-mini

Minitour,

If you don't ACT as PIC you cannot LOG PIC. You're arguement sounds like you're reading what you want out of the reg's. As far as not wanting to "work for someone who scrutinizes your times" Wake up and smell the coffee. Every employer will look your qualifications and times over. The FAA will too if they catch you (very unlikely).

Like I said before, I have my 121 job. I was trying to help guys from making mistake that will cost them a job. It is not taking total time from you, it is logging it under dual received.

 

[Rick1128]

The large companies usually have HR weed though the resumes first. They tend to have send rules, policies and formulas when sorting through resumes. You have to get through them before you can explain your resume. Keep that in mind.

 

[avbug]

If a CFI could not log PIC, what's the point of being a CFI?? I don't think there would be any! That's the traditional path of building time, get you CFI and instruct.

What is the point of being a flight instructor? It's a paying job,and the point is giving meaningful instruction in a professional environment to provide a lifetime foundation to others in aviation.

If you're there to build time, do yourself and the world a favor and get out. We need more time building buffoons trying to teach like we all need .308 holes in our foreheads.

If you don't ACT as PIC you cannot LOG PIC. You're arguement sounds like you're reading what you want out of the reg's.

I got tired of listening to you sound like you didn't know what you're talking about early in this thread, and let it drop, but here it's clear that you really don't know your subject matter.

Acting as pilot in command is NOT the same as logging pilot in command time. The FAA has made that VERY clear, time and time again. How can you not understand this?

Of course a flight instructor is entitled to log PIC. Can you not read the regulation? A flight instructor need not be PIC to log the time, but can log it all the same.

Several circumstances exist in which both parties are entitled to log PIC at the same time, but only one pilot may ever act as pic at the same time.

Logging is a paper issue, acting is reality. Logging PIC and acting as PIC are very, very different. You started the thread with a dead, tired, horse (and the wrong one, I might add), and you're still intently whipping it. Let it go.

 

[minitour]

Minitour,

If you don't ACT as PIC you cannot LOG PIC. You're arguement sounds like you're reading what you want out of the reg's. As far as not wanting to "work for someone who scrutinizes your times" Wake up and smell the coffee. Every employer will look your qualifications and times over. The FAA will too if they catch you (very unlikely).

...and if an FAA interviewer said to me "if you don't ACT as PIC you cannot LOG PIC", I'd say "thanks but no thanks" and be on my way.

Not only is that person 100% incorrect, but there's no way to convince them either.

Whether you have a great 121 gig or not is irrelevant. You're still bound to the regs like the rest of us that aren't in the 121 world.

Now, what I really said wasn't

"work for someone who scrutinizes your times"

. What I said was

if there's a company out there that wants to second guess legally logged time, do I really want to work there?

. As I said, to me that raises red flags. What other regulations do they not believe in? They aren't any gray(ey?) areas in the regs...it's all black and white.

Now, IMHO that's different from "scruitinizing". Their job is to look at my flight time to make sure I meet their qualification requirements, not to teach me the regulations. All I need to know on logging flight time is right there in 61.51.

But again, that's just my opinion...

-mini

PS
WRT the "reading what I want" in the regs...here's the exact text
61.51
(e) Logging pilot-in-command flight time. (1) A sport, recreational, private, or commercial pilot may log pilot-in-command time only for that flight time during which that person—
(i) Is the sole manipulator of the controls of an aircraft for which the pilot is rated or has privileges;
(ii) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft; or
(iii) Except for a recreational pilot, is acting as pilot in command of an aircraft on which more than one pilot is required under the type certification of the aircraft or the regulations under which the flight is conducted.
(2) An airline transport pilot may log as pilot-in-command time all of the flight time while acting as pilot-in-command of an operation requiring an airline transport pilot certificate.
(3) An authorized instructor may log as pilot-in-command time all flight time while acting as an authorized instructor.
(4) A student pilot may log pilot-in-command time only when the student pilot—
(i) Is the sole occupant of the aircraft or is performing the duties of pilot of command of an airship requiring more than one pilot flight crewmember;
(ii) Has a current solo flight endorsement as required under §61.87 of this part; and
(iii) Is undergoing training for a pilot certificate or rating.

What I'm reading is that 61.51(e)(i) says if I have an airplane multiengine land certificate, I can log PIC time in a C421, Seneca, C90...if I'm the sole manipulator of the controls. [doesn't say who is acting as PIC here]

Also, [61.51(e)(3)] if I'm acting as an authorized instructor [it doesn't say anything about who's acting as PIC anywhere in there either.]

 

[atlcrashpad]

Logging time

Avbug and Minitour,

I'm not the one who originally stated "The regs don't have to say that I have to act as PIC when I'm giving instruction. Only that I can log PIC when I'm giving instruction." Minitour said that. see thread #73

"Acting as pilot in command is NOT the same as logging pilot in command time. The FAA has made that VERY clear, time and time again. How can you not understand this?" (thread #76) Avbug, where does the FAA make this VERY clear that you may log PIC w/o being PIC?

"Of course a flight instructor is entitled to log PIC. Can you not read the regulation? A flight instructor need not be PIC to log the time, but can log it all the same" (thread#76) Avbug, when did I deny a CFI logging PIC? My thread(s) said some air carriers do not recognize PIC unless you are in the Left seat. Not my doing it is their rules and requirements.

"...and if an FAA interviewer said to me "if you don't ACT as PIC you cannot LOG PIC", I'd say "thanks but no thanks" and be on my way." (thread #77) Minitour if an FAA guy says that is the reg's then you are WRONG to ignore him.

"Not only is that person 100% incorrect, but there's no way to convince them either." Minitour, see above

"Whether you have a great 121 gig or not is irrelevant. You're still bound to the regs like the rest of us that aren't in the 121 world." (thread #77) My 121 job is PIC when I sign for the flight. My name will appear on the flight dispatch release. I have flown SIC in an aircraft that I have a type in. Ever seen two Captains flying in the same aircraft? Who ever signs for the flight is PIC in 121 ops.

I've never said the Reg's don't apply to me. I'm saying that a lot of guys are logging time incorrectly. And if you don't get a call back after faxing your resume, then that may be the reason.

 

[minitour]

Avbug and Minitour,

I'm not the one who originally stated "The regs don't have to say that I have to act as PIC when I'm giving instruction. Only that I can log PIC when I'm giving instruction." Minitour said that. see thread #73

...and it's true. See my last post.

"...and if an FAA interviewer said to me "if you don't ACT as PIC you cannot LOG PIC", I'd say "thanks but no thanks" and be on my way." (thread #77) Minitour if an FAA guy says that is the reg's then you are WRONG to ignore him.

Oops on my part..."FAA" slipped in there inadvertantly. I really meant just "interviewer". But if an inspector tried to tell me that the regs said I have to act as PIC to log PIC, I'd want to talk to another inspector...perhaps a judge?

"Not only is that person 100% incorrect, but there's no way to convince them either." Minitour, see above

See 61.51 Pilot Logbooks

"Whether you have a great 121 gig or not is irrelevant. You're still bound to the regs like the rest of us that aren't in the 121 world." (thread #77) My 121 job is PIC when I sign for the flight. My name will appear on the flight dispatch release. I have flown SIC in an aircraft that I have a type in. Ever seen two Captains flying in the same aircraft? Who ever signs for the flight is PIC in 121 ops.

But 121 isn't the regulations on logging flight time. 121 is an operating rules section...

-mini

 

[atlcrashpad]

Minitour

"But 121 isn't the regulations on logging flight time. 121 is an operating rules section..." 121 does say who can log PIC when operation under 121. 61.51 sole manipulator of the controls doesn't apply under 121. That was my point on my last post. As I stated in thread #60, call the FAA see what they say.