Bull Sh*t Resumes

[gkrangers]

Forget it, I was trying to point out that there might be some issues later down the road for resumes that appear to be questionable. Obviously I've struck a nerve with a lot of you guys. I've got my 121 job.

I was just trying to pass along some advice. Something that was not offered to me when I was a 200+ hr struggling pilot looking for a full time flying gig. Besides the FAA no longer requires you to get your log book validated by them anymore before your ATP. Log what you want.

Well from what I understand, the way I log my time is legitimate.

So whats the problem?

Should I fudge things in the opposite direction and lower my actual totals?

All my dual recieved is logged as such, its not solely logged as PIC, if that is what you are getting at. It is logged as both...

 

[atlcrashpad]

Part 1

In addition to Part 61.51, Part 1 definitions: PIC

Pilot in command means the person who:
(1) Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
(2) Has been designated as pilot in command before or during the flight; and
(3) Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight.

How many have completed (2)? Call your local FSDO and see what they say. Who has final authority and responsibility for dual given?

It's a fine line and very gray area.

 

[atlcrashpad]

If you think it is just me look at the below info from the Southwest airlines web site.

3Southwest Airlines defines "Pilot in Command" as the Pilot responsible for the operation and safety of the aircraft during flight. This definition is taken from PART I of the FAR. Southwest Airlines further allows logging of PIC as follows: For an aircraft requiring a type rating: If both pilots are type rated, the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC. If only one pilot is type rated only that pilot may log PIC, regardless of seat position. For aircraft not requiring a type rating: Only the pilot in the left seat and sole manipulator of the controls may log PIC. For military personnel, Southwest Airlines will allow flight time logged as "Pilot In Command" (PIC) only if you are the Captain/Aircraft Commander or Instructor Pilot. Primary time will only be considered PIC on a specific aircraft after an individual upgrades to Aircraft Commander in the appropriate aircraft. Time logged, as "Other Time" will not be considered. When converting taxi time a conversion factor of .3 or eighteen minutes, per leg/sortie should be used. These guidelines are imposed by Southwest Airlines for the purpose of standardizing the calculation of flight time.

 

[atlcrashpad]

hey more...

From JetBlue web site.

*JetBlue will only consider PIC time when the Pilot has signed for the aircraft. Please use only this time when completing the areas of the application asking for PIC time to be entered.


opps. FAR Part1 defines that

 

[atlcrashpad]

UPS web site

Hiring Now for Flight Officer Positions!
Louisville, KY UNITED STATES
Minimum Requirements:

• Hold a current FAA First Class Medical Certificate
• Hold a current ATP certificate OR hold an ATP written with a commercial pilot airplane multiengine land certificate with instrument certificate
• Hold a current flight engineer written or current flight engineer certificate
• Have a minimum of 1500 hours of total flight time
• Have a minimum of 1000 hours pilot in command (PIC) hours in fixed-
  wing jet and/or fixed-wing multi-engine turboprop Pilot in Command, per FAR 1.1, means the person who:
  1. Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
  2. Has been designated as the pilot in command before or during the flight;
  3. Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight

 

[gkrangers]

Hiring Now for Flight Officer Positions!
Louisville, KY UNITED STATES
Minimum Requirements:

• Hold a current FAA First Class Medical Certificate
• Hold a current ATP certificate OR hold an ATP written with a commercial pilot airplane multiengine land certificate with instrument certificate
• Hold a current flight engineer written or current flight engineer certificate
• Have a minimum of 1500 hours of total flight time
• Have a minimum of 1000 hours pilot in command (PIC) hours in fixed-
  wing jet and/or fixed-wing multi-engine turboprop Pilot in Command, per FAR 1.1, means the person who:
  1. Has final authority and responsibility for the operation and safety of the flight;
  2. Has been designated as the pilot in command before or during the flight;
  3. Holds the appropriate category, class, and type rating, if appropriate, for the conduct of the flight

I've complied with 1.1, so I don't see your problem.

But, my 172 PIC time isn't going to be a factor when I'm applying for Southwest or UPS in 20 frikkin years anyway...

 

[atlcrashpad]

FAR Part 1.1

I've complied with 1.1, so I don't see your problem.

But, my 172 PIC time isn't going to be a factor when I'm applying for Southwest or UPS in 20 frikkin years anyway...

gkrangers,

I'm sure that the CFI giving you dual agreed who was Pilot in Command before or during the flight. I'm also sure that you had full responsibility of the operation and safety of the flight the CFI was giving you instruction on.

Ask yourself if an accident or incident happened, who would the FAA hold responsible? I bet it would not be the person recieving instruction. Do you still think you qualify under Part 1?

 

[atlcrashpad]

My intention

My point was to point out to prospective Airline applicants. If you're not trying for the airlines, then my info was not directed at you. I'm simply trying to keep a quailified guy from getting the "raised eyebrow" and his resume placed to the side. The airlines are not going to ask you to answer for your times if you don't even make it through the screening process.

 

[gkrangers]

gkrangers,

I'm sure that the CFI giving you dual agreed who was Pilot in Command before or during the flight. I'm also sure that you had full responsibility of the operation and safety of the flight the CFI was giving you instruction on.

Ask yourself if an accident or incident happened, who would the FAA hold responsible? I bet it would not be the person recieving instruction. Do you still think you qualify under Part 1?

Doesn't say the CFI has to agree to anything about designating anyone. I can designate myself PIC for all that regulation states....

As for the who's responsible...I don't know. If I'm certified to fly the aircraft, and am sole manipulator of the controls, I'm in charge as far as I'm concerned, unless some prior agreement has been made. (As it would work in the Captain/FO world?)

I smell an Acting vs Logging PIC debate.

 

[gkrangers]

My point was to point out to prospective Airline applicants. If you're not trying for the airlines, then my info was not directed at you. I'm simply trying to keep a quailified guy from getting the "raised eyebrow" and his resume placed to the side. The airlines are not going to ask you to answer for your times if you don't even make it through the screening process.

I still don't think your intention holds much weight.

Even if you want to take my dual/PIC away from me, now I have around 100 dual non PIC. In a few years, I have 1000-2000 PIC from instructing...with around 100 hours of non PIC time, from the dual.

So now is 100 hours of non PIC "ok", is that better than 53? Or does that also raise an eyebrow?

 

[atlcrashpad]

Doesn't say the CFI has to agree to anything about designating anyone. I can designate myself PIC for all that regulation states....

As for the who's responsible...I don't know. If I'm certified to fly the aircraft, and am sole manipulator of the controls, I'm in charge as far as I'm concerned, unless some prior agreement has been made. (As it would work in the Captain/FO world?)

I smell an Acting vs Logging PIC debate.

gkranger,

You designate yourself? I bet if you asked the CFI, he/she whould say different. As for responsibility in an accident or incident I believe there is case law already on that. I look around for some NTSB or FAA ruling and get back with you. There should be no debate on Acting vs. Logging if you are acting as then you can log as. If you are not, then you cannot. You don't loose any Total time it is a matter of PIC /Dual received/SIC should equal Total. Period.

 

[atlcrashpad]

I still don't think your intention holds much weight.

Even if you want to take my dual/PIC away from me, now I have around 100 dual non PIC. In a few years, I have 1000-2000 PIC from instructing...with around 100 hours of non PIC time, from the dual.

So now is 100 hours of non PIC "ok", is that better than 53? Or does that also raise an eyebrow?

What raises eyebrows is a guy with 5000 hr TT and 4950 hr PIC. It's BS. Very rarely does a guy get his ratings in minimum times. Dual received should be logged as dual not PIC. If your a CFI, then PIC when instructing.

But we see guys with anywhere from 90-95% time is PIC even in his multi. Even worse when it's turbine. We know there is not an insurance policy that will cover anybody below certain times and to say the least without formal training in the aircraft type. ie.. Flight Safety, Simcom, Simuflight.

These guys shw up with 900 multi 850 turbine and 840 is PIC. It looks like he's fluffed his times and his resume get put to the side. Log it right and you may get asked to explain it during your interview. Log it wrong and not even a second look.

I'm not trying to cut anybody down, just saying hey watch how you present it on your resume.

 

[gkrangers]

gkranger,

You designate yourself? I bet if you asked the CFI, he/she whould say different. As for responsibility in an accident or incident I believe there is case law already on that. I look around for some NTSB or FAA ruling and get back with you. There should be no debate on Acting vs. Logging if you are acting as then you can log as. If you are not, then you cannot. You don't loose any Total time it is a matter of PIC /Dual received/SIC should equal Total. Period.

Essentially your point is that a pilot must satisfy all the requirements of 1.1 and 61.51 in order to log PIC, correct?

 

[atlcrashpad]

121 is different

Doesn't say the CFI has to agree to anything about designating anyone. I can designate myself PIC for all that regulation states....

As for the who's responsible...I don't know. If I'm certified to fly the aircraft, and am sole manipulator of the controls, I'm in charge as far as I'm concerned, unless some prior agreement has been made. (As it would work in the Captain/FO world?)

I smell an Acting vs Logging PIC debate.

As it works in the Captain/FO world? If you are refering to Part 121, Capt is PIC no matter who is on the controls. I sign the flight release and the FAA says ALL the PIC Time is mine. FO is SIC all the time.

 

[gkrangers]

What raises eyebrows is a guy with 5000 hr TT and 4950 hr PIC. It's BS. Very rarely does a guy get his ratings in minimum times. Dual received should be logged as dual not PIC. If your a CFI, then PIC when instructing.

But we see guys with anywhere from 90-95% time is PIC even in his multi. Even worse when it's turbine. We know there is not an insurance policy that will cover anybody below certain times and to say the least without formal training in the aircraft type. ie.. Flight Safety, Simcom, Simuflight.

These guys shw up with 900 multi 850 turbine and 840 is PIC. It looks like he's fluffed his times and his resume get put to the side. Log it right and you may get asked to explain it during your interview. Log it wrong and not even a second look.

I'm not trying to cut anybody down, just saying hey watch how you present it on your resume.

Then why is it the way "everyone" (generalizing here) seems to do it?

 

[gkrangers]

As it works in the Captain/FO world? If you are refering to Part 121, Capt is PIC no matter who is on the controls. I sign the flight release and the FAA says ALL the PIC Time is mine. FO is SIC all the time.

Thats what I mean...even if the FO does everything, you still log PIC.

Greedy prick.

 

[atlcrashpad]

Essentially your point is that a pilot must satisfy all the requirements of 1.1 and 61.51 in order to log PIC, correct?

gkrangers,

That's the way the FAR's were explained to me. There is always a chance that I'm wrong. If so, I'll admit it. But if not, please be careful how you log your times. Call your local FSDO and layout the debate. You don't have to give your name. Just ask an Ops inspector about Part 1.1 and Part 61.51, logging of times PIC and Dual received. Total time will not change.

 

[atlcrashpad]

Rules

Thats what I mean...even if the FO does everything, you still log PIC.

Greedy prick.

That's the rules... I lived with it as an FO. Although I thought I knew more than most of my Captains. I'm sure my FO's think the same as I did..

 

[gkrangers]

gkrangers,

That's the way the FAR's were explained to me. There is always a chance that I'm wrong. If so, I'll admit it. But if not, please be careful how you log your times. Call your local FSDO and layout the debate. You don't have to give your name. Just ask an Ops inspector about Part 1.1 and Part 61.51, logging of times PIC and Dual received. Total time will not change.

It might not be a bad idea. But I bet I can talk to a few different inspectors and get a few different answers. Tho it seems like it would be something they have a canned response for.

Good debate, back to my homework. How ADS-B, CPDLC, and WAAS can improve safety with regards to instrument flight...

 

[atlcrashpad]

gkrangers,

You are absolutly right, you may get different responses from different inspectors. Heck, you can always call the FAA in OKC. As with anything interpretation is different with everybody.

I just don't want you young guys (My replacements) to screw yourselves out of a chance for the best job in the world. 121 Flying is the "Tops". You are going to love it, it beats working for a living. Let me know what you find out. You can PM me, or if I'm wrong you can post it for everyone to see. Like I said, if I'm wrong I'll admit it.

Best of luck to you.