Buffett Bites Back at NetJets Pilot Complaints

[Diesel]

Here is my definition of a Thug in this context. Anyone who would coerce anybody else to do something is a Thug. Anyone who plans to mistreat anybody for the rest of his career for not doing what you want, is a Thug. If you do NOT intend to do these things, you are not a Thug, and thanks for that. Diesel is a Thug, and proud of it, and shame on him. I think meanness and coercion are not things to be proud of. If I joined the strike because I believed it was the right thing to do, and you did not, I would not mistreat you for a second, nor coerce you to join us on the picket line. It is perfectly ok to disagree with me about the efficacy of unions, but to act on that belief with bad behavior is thuggish.
If the final contract offer we get is a bad deal, I will be joining y'all on the picket line. It will feel strange, and my Dad would be shocked, but there you have it. I think the pilot shortage will help our negotiating team get us a good deal, so I doubt a strike will be necessary.

Typical.

All I see is a lot of I's in there.

But you can bet if you get called in for a PRB you'll be using the term WE pretty damn quick.

Thug whatever makes you sleep better at night for screwing your fellow pilots.

 

[ghostrider64]

What's sad about G4 is he can't see how the company is coercing him and manipulating him, by him buying into the "you gotta help the team out boys" cry from management.

He's a simpleton, nothing more. We've all seen them and their pathetic supporting roles in life. Sad characters that think their work ethic is superior,never to be educated or swayed, then in the end they are handed a pile of crap to eat. It'll be fun watching him 10-12 months from now when the reality of his pathetic existence comes to fruition.

He reminds me of Ash in Alien....

At the beginning of the film, Ash is depicted as quiet and logical, greatly adherent to company regulations. However, he breaks quarantine protocol (disobeying Ripley, the ship's ranking officer, in the process) and allows the infected Kane aboard the mining ship, seemingly out of compassion, and is later seen marvelling at the creature attached to him.

 

[gunfyter]

What's sad about G4 is he can't see how the company is coercing him and manipulating him,

He sees the union thugs but not the management thugs and intimidation....

Just wish he would read A Union Buster confesses...

Union thuggery can hold no candle to management thuggery and intimidation of workers

 

[G4dude]

He sees the union thugs but not the management thugs and intimidation....

Just wish he would read A Union Buster confesses...

Union thuggery can hold no candle to management thuggery and intimidation of workers

I think I will read that book.

 

[G4dude]

Typical.

All I see is a lot of I's in there.

But you can bet if you get called in for a PRB you'll be using the term WE pretty damn quick.

Thug whatever makes you sleep better at night for screwing your fellow pilots.

I agree with some of the things unions, especially in house unions, bring to the mix. I abhore the coercion of fellow members that accompanies the good stuff.

 

[pilotyip]

I abhore the coercion of fellow members that accompanies the good stuff.

You are not allowed to do that, you must be beat into silence like most of the other pilots at NJ who share your views. It is not about issues, it is personal it is about you because you dare to speak out. The name calling, insults and slamming will continue until you are silenced.

 

[realityman]

I agree with some of the things unions, especially in house unions, bring to the mix. I abhore the coercion of fellow members that accompanies the good stuff.

Not sure why you're so hung up about "coercion".

There is no coercion going on. All I see are attempts to educate. We are not the unions of old. No one is going to key your car or TP your front yard or break your kneecaps to get you to get in line.

Are you referring to how scabs are treated? Sorry, that's not coercion. That's called "consequences". Yes, there is a big difference.

Coercion involves actions that try to force you to take or participate in certain actions. In other words, if you refuse to picket, or even choose to become a scab, coercion would involve something like "You will join in or we'll break your legs/ steal your paycheck/release the secret video of you with that farmer's cow.".

Consequences happen after the fact. When all is settled and done with the strike, what happens to you then are the consequences. There is no coercion as the act which we wanted you to join with is over.

Having your license suspended after violating the FAR's is not coercion. It's consequences. No one will try to stop you from violating the FAR's. It's your choice. But there are consequences for it. You can say hateful things like, "All African-Americans should be hung." (well, I hope someone would coerce you into not making that public statement) but the likely backlash you would receive from most folks would be the consequences, not coercion.

You can cross a picket line and scab, but your treatment after the strike is over is not coercion, it's consequences. If you can't see the difference, then there's no hope for you.

You just don't like the consequences, so like a child you try to deny they are "consequences", play the victim and say it's "coercion".

We are trying to educate you about the consequences of making a bad choice. You don't like those consequences. Fine. You don't have to. They are what they are. Even Diesel, who can be a bit rough with you, is only trying to tell you what the results will be of crossing a picket line. Rather than say, "Okay, I now understand the consequences and still freely choose to scab even knowing the consequences much as I don't like them. I accept the results of my actions and stand by them." you prefer to say, "You're just trying to bully or coerce me into doing what the union wants.". It's a stance that essentially takes no personal responsibility and is in complete denial of the consequences.

By telling you how scabs are treated is not coercion anymore than telling you what the likely results will be of running a red light at a busy intersection.

We're trying to PROTECT you from bad consequences (yes, and hopefully garner your full support for a better contract as it will take the vast majority of us working together to accomplish it) and you call it being "thugs".

Hopefully, even if you don't agree with a strike and won't actively picket with us, you'll at least not cross the picket line. Time will tell.

 

[Pervis]

Is it coercion to try and stop a friend from cheating on his or her significant other? Is it coercion to suggest a certain purchase may be over the top? Both "legal" activities, but both wrong. Crossing a picket line is just wrong. Calling someone a thug who is trying to convince you of what many consider obvious is just one more example of someone trying to justify their behavior.

 

[G4dude]

Is it coercion to try and stop a friend from cheating on his or her significant other? Is it coercion to suggest a certain purchase may be over the top? Both "legal" activities, but both wrong. Crossing a picket line is just wrong. Calling someone a thug who is trying to convince you of what many consider obvious is just one more example of someone trying to justify their behavior.

I give up. Enjoy your message board.

 

[Diesel]

I give up. Enjoy your message board.

But you've made such great arguments to support the reason why you should be able to SCAB and still be treated like a normal human being after.....

Were you involved on the townhall meeting yesterday? Lots of good info and all you had to do was dial a phone number.

 

[pilotyip]

I give up. Enjoy your message board.

Don't give up there are two sides to every issue. Many do not have your courage to post what hey believe in the fact of constant union thuggery. The stuff f you say needed to be said. Many have the same worries you do but they prefer not to be publically flogged

 

[Diesel]

Don't give up there are two sides to every issue. Many do not have your courage to post what hey believe in the fact of constant union thuggery. The stuff f you say needed to be said. Many have the same worries you do but they prefer not to be publically flogged

So you support him being a scab? Good for you.

 

[realityman]

If people prefer not to be flogged then it should be a very simple decision to not be a scab.

This message board is pretty tame compared to what it'll be like for those who scab.

Now Yip, before you start lamenting "union thuggery", let me just tell you that right, wrong or otherwise that's just the way it is. So go ahead and decry those big old meany union folks. It will not change one thing about how scabs will be treated.

Funny thing is, those nasty old coercive union thugs are always the bad guys..............until they win, bringing the bar up and improving aviation for everyone. Then all of a sudden they're heroes and NO ONE wants anything to do with the scabs.

Even you, Yip, haven't talked about the honor and integrity of any scabs at any of the airlines where the union prevailed. Come on, no positive things to say about anyone who crossed the lines at United in the past? Delta? FedEx? All those places have great contracts, and likely to get better. Everyone wants to go there (anyone NOT aware they're union shops?). Who is on here saying "Thank heaven there were scabs who put their families first and "saved" the junior guys by fighting for the company's side even if they didn't win."? Or is everyone pretty happy that the unions at those places prevailed?

Given what we're trying to do it's amazing and borderline insane that anyone would support someone's decision to scab.

 

[gunfyter]

Good point Reality.

Has a company ever been saved by people crossing the line?

 

[pilotyip]

Good point Reality.Has a company ever been saved by people crossing the line?

Didn't the CAL scabs win in 1984? ALPA guys no longer worked for CAL, well unless they like many went back. The scabs worked a major the rest of thier lives, of course mixed in with New York Air and People's Express who never crossed a line.

Now Yip, before you start lamenting "union thuggery", let me just tell you that right, wrong or otherwise that's just the way it is. So go ahead and decry those big old meany union folks. It will not change one thing about how scabs will be treated.

Being a scab is nothing to be proud of and a burden that will be carried for the rest of someone's life. When given a chance by a guy in my reserve squadron to interview at CAL in 1983 while I was unemployed, I elected not to because it might ruin my career. He has not crossed a line therefore the word is out of line. But all opposition to the nuclear option must be suppressed. All that being said calling someone who is not a scab a scab is pure thuggery

So you support him being a scab? Good for you.

No I have never said that, as per above, but to use that language on someone who has not crossed a line, well is thuggery. What his decision and the consequences of his decision will be are something in the future. You have no idea what he will do, he could be playing you like a violin.

 

[Diesel]

Didn't the CAL scabs win in 1984? ALPA guys no longer worked for CAL, well unless they like many went back. The scabs worked a major the rest of thier lives, of course mixed in with New York Air and People's Express who never crossed a line.


Being a scab is nothing to be proud of and a burden that will be carried for the rest of someone's life. When given a chance by a guy in my reserve squadron to interview at CAL in 1983 while I was unemployed, I elected not to because it might ruin my career. He has not crossed a line therefore the word is out of line. But all opposition to the nuclear option must be suppressed. All that being said calling someone who is not a scab a scab is pure thuggery


No I have never said that, as per above, but to use that language on someone who has not crossed a line, well is thuggery. What his decision and the consequences of his decision will be are something in the future. You have no idea what he will do, he could be playing you like a violin.

You would think that but everyone knows he isn't.

When you start justifying the actions of a scab you e already made the decision and are just justifying.

Yip has already made his hatred of unions very clear. But your hatred of scabs I'm sure is on par because of your missed opportunities due to them.

G4 did you join the town hall meeting?

 

[pilotyip]

When you start justifying the actions of a scab you e already made the decision and are just justifying.

G4 is not a scab, he has not crossed aline, you have no idea when the bell rings what he will do, His stance is no more absurd than the 10250 stance, it is just the other side.

 

[Diesel]

When a pilot says they are considering it I don't need to know any more in my book. He's already proven he's weak and willing to go against his brothers for the betterment of himself.

If he doesn't follow through with it I will not consider myself to have won just that he didn't have the backbone to stand up to what he's been saying this whole time.

I know a lot of pilots have pulled him aside and asked him what he's thinking. The problem is he isn't thinking and hasn't been through one of these to understand the process and the road that it takes to get there.

We could have a contract tomorrow if it wasn't for posts like these that give the company some glimmer of hope that enough will cross if the time comes.

 

[T-1GUY]

G4 is not a scab, he has not crossed aline, you have no idea when the bell rings what he will do, His stance is no more absurd than the 10250 stance, it is just the other side.

Funny, the airline I went to the diiscussion at tax time was the problem over 1000+ pilots who exceeded 300K in base pay and how they were hitting the IRS limit on retirement tax exemptions and how we needed to increase the maximum (I think it is currently 53K per year).

That is over 1000+ exceeding 350K in compensation per year.

I know that you set your sights very low, but 10/250 is an average if not low number to shoot for.

 

[pilotyip]

I know that you set your sights very low, but 10/250 is an average if not low number to shoot for.

Yes my career has not hit the high notes to which you allude, there is an element of luck and timing in this career that play a role well beyond our ability to control. But as I approach the end of my career I have come to realize my sights are only low in others eyes. This country had been very good to me. I am very comfortable with my lot in life. I get great satisfaction from looking at the pilots I mentored and the friends I have made over the years. I am financially secure. I want for nothing. I am still married to my college sweetheart after 50 years. My kid and grand kids are successful. I am happy, what more it there in life?

BTW: As posted before I lived my childhood dream of being a Navy pilot, and that experience of a first tour junior officer in combat is something I would never trade for anything. If the tooth fairy came by and said I will guarantee you a career at DAL if you give up that experience as a Navy pilot, I would tell her pack sand.