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Buffett Bites Back at NetJets Pilot Complaints

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I give up. Enjoy your message board.

Don't give up there are two sides to every issue. Many do not have your courage to post what hey believe in the fact of constant union thuggery. The stuff f you say needed to be said. Many have the same worries you do but they prefer not to be publically flogged
 
Don't give up there are two sides to every issue. Many do not have your courage to post what hey believe in the fact of constant union thuggery. The stuff f you say needed to be said. Many have the same worries you do but they prefer not to be publically flogged


So you support him being a scab? Good for you.
 
If people prefer not to be flogged then it should be a very simple decision to not be a scab.

This message board is pretty tame compared to what it'll be like for those who scab.

Now Yip, before you start lamenting "union thuggery", let me just tell you that right, wrong or otherwise that's just the way it is. So go ahead and decry those big old meany union folks. It will not change one thing about how scabs will be treated.

Funny thing is, those nasty old coercive union thugs are always the bad guys..............until they win, bringing the bar up and improving aviation for everyone. Then all of a sudden they're heroes and NO ONE wants anything to do with the scabs.

Even you, Yip, haven't talked about the honor and integrity of any scabs at any of the airlines where the union prevailed. Come on, no positive things to say about anyone who crossed the lines at United in the past? Delta? FedEx? All those places have great contracts, and likely to get better. Everyone wants to go there (anyone NOT aware they're union shops?). Who is on here saying "Thank heaven there were scabs who put their families first and "saved" the junior guys by fighting for the company's side even if they didn't win."? Or is everyone pretty happy that the unions at those places prevailed?

Given what we're trying to do it's amazing and borderline insane that anyone would support someone's decision to scab.
 
Good point Reality.Has a company ever been saved by people crossing the line?
Didn't the CAL scabs win in 1984? ALPA guys no longer worked for CAL, well unless they like many went back. The scabs worked a major the rest of thier lives, of course mixed in with New York Air and People's Express who never crossed a line.

Now Yip, before you start lamenting "union thuggery", let me just tell you that right, wrong or otherwise that's just the way it is. So go ahead and decry those big old meany union folks. It will not change one thing about how scabs will be treated.
Being a scab is nothing to be proud of and a burden that will be carried for the rest of someone's life. When given a chance by a guy in my reserve squadron to interview at CAL in 1983 while I was unemployed, I elected not to because it might ruin my career. He has not crossed a line therefore the word is out of line. But all opposition to the nuclear option must be suppressed. All that being said calling someone who is not a scab a scab is pure thuggery

So you support him being a scab? Good for you.
No I have never said that, as per above, but to use that language on someone who has not crossed a line, well is thuggery. What his decision and the consequences of his decision will be are something in the future. You have no idea what he will do, he could be playing you like a violin.
 
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Didn't the CAL scabs win in 1984? ALPA guys no longer worked for CAL, well unless they like many went back. The scabs worked a major the rest of thier lives, of course mixed in with New York Air and People's Express who never crossed a line.


Being a scab is nothing to be proud of and a burden that will be carried for the rest of someone's life. When given a chance by a guy in my reserve squadron to interview at CAL in 1983 while I was unemployed, I elected not to because it might ruin my career. He has not crossed a line therefore the word is out of line. But all opposition to the nuclear option must be suppressed. All that being said calling someone who is not a scab a scab is pure thuggery


No I have never said that, as per above, but to use that language on someone who has not crossed a line, well is thuggery. What his decision and the consequences of his decision will be are something in the future. You have no idea what he will do, he could be playing you like a violin.


You would think that but everyone knows he isn't.

When you start justifying the actions of a scab you e already made the decision and are just justifying.

Yip has already made his hatred of unions very clear. But your hatred of scabs I'm sure is on par because of your missed opportunities due to them.

G4 did you join the town hall meeting?
 
When you start justifying the actions of a scab you e already made the decision and are just justifying.
G4 is not a scab, he has not crossed aline, you have no idea when the bell rings what he will do, His stance is no more absurd than the 10250 stance, it is just the other side.
 
When a pilot says they are considering it I don't need to know any more in my book. He's already proven he's weak and willing to go against his brothers for the betterment of himself.

If he doesn't follow through with it I will not consider myself to have won just that he didn't have the backbone to stand up to what he's been saying this whole time.

I know a lot of pilots have pulled him aside and asked him what he's thinking. The problem is he isn't thinking and hasn't been through one of these to understand the process and the road that it takes to get there.

We could have a contract tomorrow if it wasn't for posts like these that give the company some glimmer of hope that enough will cross if the time comes.
 
G4 is not a scab, he has not crossed aline, you have no idea when the bell rings what he will do, His stance is no more absurd than the 10250 stance, it is just the other side.


Funny, the airline I went to the diiscussion at tax time was the problem over 1000+ pilots who exceeded 300K in base pay and how they were hitting the IRS limit on retirement tax exemptions and how we needed to increase the maximum (I think it is currently 53K per year).

That is over 1000+ exceeding 350K in compensation per year.

I know that you set your sights very low, but 10/250 is an average if not low number to shoot for.
 
I know that you set your sights very low, but 10/250 is an average if not low number to shoot for.
Yes my career has not hit the high notes to which you allude, there is an element of luck and timing in this career that play a role well beyond our ability to control. But as I approach the end of my career I have come to realize my sights are only low in others eyes. This country had been very good to me. I am very comfortable with my lot in life. I get great satisfaction from looking at the pilots I mentored and the friends I have made over the years. I am financially secure. I want for nothing. I am still married to my college sweetheart after 50 years. My kid and grand kids are successful. I am happy, what more it there in life?

BTW: As posted before I lived my childhood dream of being a Navy pilot, and that experience of a first tour junior officer in combat is something I would never trade for anything. If the tooth fairy came by and said I will guarantee you a career at DAL if you give up that experience as a Navy pilot, I would tell her pack sand.:)
 
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Yes my career has not hit the high notes to which you allude, there is an element of luck and timing in this career that play a role well beyond our ability to control. But as I approach the end of my career I have come to realize my sights are only low in others eyes. This country had been very good to me. I am very comfortable with my lot in life. I get great satisfaction from looking at the pilots I mentored and the friends I have made over the years. I am financially secure. I want for nothing. I am still married to my college sweetheart after 50 years. My kid and grand kids are successful. I am happy, what more it there in life?

BTW: As posted before I lived my childhood dream of being a Navy pilot, and that experience of a first tour junior officer in combat is something I would never trade for anything. If the tooth fairy came by and said I will guarantee you a career at DAL if you give up that experience as a Navy pilot, I would tell her pack sand.:)

You know, I think this is probably the best post you've ever put on FI! Very nice!! Can't say i disagree with anything in there. You'd probably be surprised that even with most of us "hardliner" union types who want to fight for something much better, we're still very content and happy in our personal lives. My daughters are healthy and happy, and my greatest joy is spending time with them and my beautiful bride. Work rarely comes up at home, and I stay focused on the most important things in my life, my family. My oldest daughter has decided she wants to be a runner like her dad, as well as enjoys going up for local flights with me. My youngest is expressing a strong interest on going flying with me too. Looking forward to being able to take my oldest to a local Father's Day Fly-In with me. We are comfortable, and lack for nothing.

However, all that being said, when fighting for a legacy-equivalent contract I am fighting for them! And the families of my coworkers. While we are comfortable and lack for nothing, it is getting harder and harder to maintain it every year. Inflation, low as it's been recently, has been constantly eating into my paychecks (which haven't gone up at all for five years now). Little by little we're having to cut back. It's a lot of small stuff that isn't noticeable by anyone but me, but eventually we're going to run out of small stuff and will start cutting into bigger things to keep ends meeting. We aren't living in a McMansion, or driving expensive cars, or taking elaborate vacations, or wearing designer clothes. Just living a nice comfortable middle class life, which is perfect. But unfortunately, it's going to take a greatly improved contract to be able to maintain it into the twilight years of my life.

Additionally, your post has cleared up a few things regarding things that have helped you live comfortably while making significantly lower wages than us. Maybe I'm wrong, but I'm guessing you receive some sort of military pension? Never having served, i can't even begin to guess how much it is, but whatever it is I'm certain it's helped subsidize your lifestyle. Please keep in mind, I'm NOT saying you shouldn't have it. You earned it. Just pointing out that it's something a great many folks don't have, which would make the need to earn higher wages more important. And I'm guessing you also have government healthcare (it's Tricare or something similar?). So maybe not a huge concern for you if your company doesn't provide any, or make you pay a premium. Also, you mention you're near retirement. I'm guessing but that would make the solid middle years of your career happening at least 20 years ago. Given the wages you made during those years, how do you think it would pan out for you if you were starting out now, especially with a young family, and trying to live a decent middle class lifestyle on those same wages?

I'm thinking your perspective is skewed by what worked out well for you in your time. Just as 25 years from now, when my career is ending, some might laugh at me if I would say "You folks are paid plenty at $200K/year! What's the problem?". Especially if inflation picks up even a little, $200K isn't going to mean much in 25 years. And therein lies the problem with most folks who don't support us. So many people are still thinking in 1980's dollars. "Come on! $150K is A LOT of money!!". Uh, no it's not. Yes, it's more than most Americans make, but that doesn't change the fact that it's really not that much money. And while most don't make that, there's a huge number of dual income families now because dad (or mom's) $75K/year salary doesn't seem to maintain that great of a middle class lifestyle for a family of four.

And, quite frankly, given what we do and the sacrifices we make, I personally don't think we should just make middle of middle class wages. We should easily be maintaining upper middle class wages. I'm willing to fight for it.
 
G4 is not a scab, he has not crossed aline, you have no idea when the bell rings what he will do, His stance is no more absurd than the 10250 stance, it is just the other side.

Why is 10/250 absurd?
 
Why is 10/250 absurd?

Might be too big of a jump, I don't know but ask the UAL pilots about their 2000 contract with a minimum of $300K+
 
Might be too big of a jump, I don't know but ask the UAL pilots about their 2000 contract with a minimum of $300K+

Too big of a jump? How do you figure?
 

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