Buffett Bites Back at NetJets Pilot Complaints

[imacdog]

I wouldn't say that. A lot of people are holding it together... just not ... well you know who.

In the end, it's the pilots who are given the crap sandwich and are expected to make it work. Issues like a scheduled zero minute turn to pick up owners , having to fly a plane with many writeups including passenger comfort/convenience, or being run ragged to the point of calling fatigue are not the pilot's doing.

 

[Semore Butts]

Hey Pervis, I'm with you, I was just answering the other guy.

In fact, I happen to stumble across this this morning!

http://online.barrons.com/articles/n...als-1431737039

 

[gunfyter]

In the end, it's the pilots who are given the crap sandwich and are expected to make it work. Issues like a scheduled zero minute turn to pick up owners , having to fly a plane with many writeups including passenger comfort/convenience, or being run ragged to the point of calling fatigue are not the pilot's doing.

Crap rolls downhill and we live in the valley...

I would hate to be an owner services rep though....

What I am trying to avoid is falling for the tactic that the Bridgeway Information Ministry is seemingly trying:

Dividing the different worker groups against each other.

 

[gunfyter]

26 pilots on the April seniority list are not on the May seniority list.

about 1%. If it continues 1% attrition per month, could get interesting. 300 new type-ratings a year just to tread water? Many were Gulfstream and Falcon. I wonder what those cost?

Buy FSI stock

 

[Mooneymite]

26 pilots on the April seniority list are not on the May seniority list.

Replaced with pilots on first year pay.

I wonder where the trade off between training costs and lower salary is....?

 

[fischman]

The question was really for fischman...he said NJ is the industry and bigger than its compeditors combined, suggestion the industry is just the frax. But wants to use the majors' pay comparision. Apples to oranges.

Fight for all you can get. I'm just saying that an airline payscale seems out if the realm of possibility until NJ profits near 1B....like the majors.

Like I said, it's a matter of perspective. What you don't understand is, it's not apples and oranges. The pilots at NJA fly in the same environment at the guys at Delta. When our engines stop turning, we have the same problem a Delta crew has. We use the same airports, the same runways, the same approaches, etc... Yet we are expected to earn 60% of their wages? Why? Because NJA pilots fly a Citation where a Delta pilot flies a Boeing? A plane is a plane is a plane. You pull back, they go up. You push forward, they go down. "Well a Boeing carries more people." So what? Do you think if there's 1 soul or 200 souls on board the people in the back trust in their crew less? No! NJA pilots have EARNED the trust the passengers place in us. We're good at what we do. Very good. And we are now demanding to be compensated accordingly.

When I stated that NJA is the industry I was referring to the foolish wages the NBAA says we should be making because that is the company's perspective. If they want to use that, FINE. If that's the case, the NBAA will have to formulate some new tables, because we are about to redifine them. We saw it in '05 when after the CBA was signed, the rest of the frax all got a hefty raise. Why? Because WE decide what it is. Not some arbitrary orginazation.

Now, I'd like for you to tell me why I'm worth only 60% of a pilot who works at Delta. Good luck.

 

[msculley6905]

Like I said, it's a matter of perspective. What you don't understand is, it's not apples and oranges. The pilots at NJA fly in the same environment at the guys at Delta. When our engines stop turning, we have the same problem a Delta crew has. We use the same airports, the same runways, the same approaches, etc... Yet we are expected to earn 60% of their wages? Why? Because NJA pilots fly a Citation where a Delta pilot flies a Boeing? A plane is a plane is a plane. You pull back, they go up. You push forward, they go down. "Well a Boeing carries more people." So what? Do you think if there's 1 soul or 200 souls on board the people in the back trust in their crew less? No! NJA pilots have EARNED the trust the passengers place in us. We're good at what we do. Very good. And we are now demanding to be compensated accordingly.

When I stated that NJA is the industry I was referring to the foolish wages the NBAA says we should be making because that is the company's perspective. If they want to use that, FINE. If that's the case, the NBAA will have to formulate some new tables, because we are about to redifine them. We saw it in '05 when after the CBA was signed, the rest of the frax all got a hefty raise. Why? Because WE decide what it is. Not some arbitrary orginazation.

Now, I'd like for you to tell me why I'm worth only 60% of a pilot who works at Delta. Good luck.

It's not up to me to define your worth...like i said, try to get the world, but i just dont think its feasable.

I did rather enjoy the new njasap ad. Company says no major concessions are being asked for, union says thery're in a fight for their livlihoods. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and see who is actually proposing what.

What is more? NJ+ 40% or SWA+ 1%?

I'd also like to know what pilot had ever worked 98 hours in a 7 day tour. Or is that in the ad because you're LEGALLY allowed to work 14x7. Want an airline type deal? Are you willing to be paid by flight hours which for the avg NJ pilot can be far, far less.

 

[gunfyter]

Flight hours plus duty rig.

Someone figured it out. I'd be making $345K if I had Southwest flight hours and duty rig.

 

[fischman]

It's not up to me to define your worth...like i said, try to get the world, but i just dont think its feasable.

I did rather enjoy the new njasap ad. Company says no major concessions are being asked for, union says thery're in a fight for their livlihoods. I'd love to be a fly on the wall and see who is actually proposing what.

What is more? NJ+ 40% or SWA+ 1%?

I'd also like to know what pilot had ever worked 98 hours in a 7 day tour. Or is that in the ad because you're LEGALLY allowed to work 14x7. Want an airline type deal? Are you willing to be paid by flight hours which for the avg NJ pilot can be far, far less.

With the business model, there's no way an hourly structure would work. Sorry, but before I address any of your queries, you have to address mine. I'd like to know why I'm worth less than 60% a Delta pilot.

 

[gunfyter]

With the business model, there's no way an hourly structure would work. Sorry, but before I address any of your queries, you have to address mine. I'd like to know why I'm worth less than 60% a Delta pilot.

I believe SW has a .74 duty rig. You are on duty 10 hours you get paid for 7.4 hours of flight time minimum.


Duty rig 101
http://www.airlinepilotcentral.com/articles/job-search-articles/trip-and-duty-rigs-101.html

Southwest has a maximum scheduled duty day of 10.5 hours, and all hours after that are paid in overtime. They have a minimum credit day of 6.5 hours, and are given full credit for deadheading. They also have a duty RIG of 0.73, meaning that for every hour that they are on duty they are credited 0.73 block hours. So, for a 10 hour day, they will be credited 7.3 hours. In addition to all these parameters, they also have limits to the amount of days they can work in a row (5), and in a month (15-16), for safety and efficiency reasons.