Buffett Bites Back at NetJets Pilot Complaints

[Mooneymite]

.... Most owners know it is the mismanagement of this company, not the pilots, that has been screwing them of late. .....

Interesting.

Do you have a source to back up what you say, or is this just speculation on your part? "Most owners Know...." Really? What percentage is "most"?

I would speculate that NetJets' owners have strong anti-union feelings generally, and are not happy to see labor unrest. Most would probably say the EMT succeeds despite union opposition.

However, if you have facts and figures to back up your statement, I'm interested to hear your source.

 

[Diesel]

Interesting.

Do you have a source to back up what you say, or is this just speculation on your part? "Most owners Know...." Really? What percentage is "most"?

I would speculate that NetJets' owners have strong anti-union feelings generally, and are not happy to see labor unrest. Most would probably say the EMT succeeds despite union opposition.

However, if you have facts and figures to back up your statement, I'm interested to hear your source.

I'll throw in that 99 percent of the owners say the same thing to me.

They love the pilots, just not the CEO.

 

[msculley6905]

I don't know. I thought the purpose of the question was to analyze what kind of pay scale the pilots should be shooting for...

I think NJ will be losing a lot of our FO's very soon. To replace them ... well all military guys are being hired by airlines. No airlines are furloughing and no regional airline pilots will make a move to NJ. Thats where NJ got pilots in the past. Military, Airline furloughs and retirees, and Regionals.

These sources are not really available to NJA this time.

The question was really for fischman...he said NJ is the industry and bigger than its compeditors combined, suggestion the industry is just the frax. But wants to use the majors' pay comparision. Apples to oranges.

Fight for all you can get. I'm just saying that an airline payscale seems out if the realm of possibility until NJ profits near 1B....like the majors.

 

[Mooneymite]

I'll throw in that 99 percent of the owners say the same thing to me.

Yeah....that's just hearsay.

People often say what they think you want to hear.

Let's just say I'm skeptical of both your perception and that this is a true representation of owner support.

However, I'd be happy to see concrete evidence that you are right.

 

[NJAowner]

I am in agreement with what owners know and say. I just continue to point out that I think it is a faulty assumption to assume that the owners will side against a mangement in any dispute/strike. I would not take that for granted -- the enemy of my enemy is NOT always your friend.

 

[Mooneymite]

I am in agreement with what owners know and say.

Okay, so other than anecdotal hear-say, how do you know "...what owners know and say"?

Like I said before....I'm skeptical, but I'd love to see evidence that any owner would side with the union against the EMT. I suspect that most owners would think it in their best interest to make their pilots believe that they're on the same side. Reality may be very different.

It would be a major error to put too much stock in what owners tell their pilots in casual conversation. Far better to assume owners are hostile to the union and be pleasantly surprised if they rally to help the union.

Every owner knows that ultimately increased pilot costs will be reflected in their ownership costs.

 

[Semore Butts]

As I understand it we are already there?

Fight for all you can get. I'm just saying that an airline payscale seems out if the realm of possibility until NJ profits near 1B....like the majors.

 

[Pervis]

Fight for all you can get. I'm just saying that an airline payscale seems out if the realm of possibility until NJ profits near 1B....like the majors.

Consider the economy of scale. Delta has that one billion level but has 12000 mainline pilots. Consider the level of "reported" profit at Netjets with less than 3000 pilots. We would extract a far lower percentage for our income if we reach parity with Delta or any legacy Carrier.

It has been drilled into our subconscious to accept far less because we are not Delta or American. That goes for any less than "legacy" level carrier. A good surgeon in Bovi, MN is no less valuable than a surgeon at Mayo. We should accept nothing less than the highest industry standard. We fly the wealthiest, the brightest, and the most beautiful people, don't we? (Tic), except from their point of view.

 

[BentOver]

What an owner says to your face and what he/she is thinking are two separate things....

I would guess that a good number of owners are business people/ business owners...who probably spent years figuring out ways to make money DESPITE having to pay employees. I'd guess most are anti-Union in some way shape or form. And while they may not like Hansell vs. Santulli, in the end they really just want to get from A-B every so often.

I'd also assume that to most NJA is an afterthought. Like the limo company they use regularly to get around LA/NY... They enjoy the service but once they are off the a/c they have already moved on. By the time they have gotten to the FBO doors they have already forgotten your face.

Sure there are those that really do have a passion for NJA, but out of 3-4000 owners, how many are we really talking about. In my 3 years on the X I never once had an owner truly discuss what was going on with NJA ( before or after announcement of furloughs)

The chances of an owner saying to your face that you are overpaid, or should take concessions is highly doubtful. Especially right before you fly them from A-B.

 

[realityman]

First off, there will be no strike. And if there is, it won't last long. I don't care how much lift is out there to cover our flying, the fact is, our customers don't want it. Do you know what the standard refrain is these days from clients I fly? It's, "I just want what I paid for.". They want THEIR aircraft to show up and fly them. They are tired of getting hosed by Hansell's new program of screwing them over. Far from "acclimating" our clients to being on selloffs, it's pissing them off. If they wanted to be on a chartered flight, they'd simply do it themselves and save a bunch of money. And while they may not care about what we make, or whether our kids can afford college, or how our healthcare is, they DO prefer actual Netjets pilots. The reasons vary from person to person, but it's been born out over and over that overall they really do like us and prefer us.

Realityman, that is all correct .. but it is not complete. The last line may read something like:

However, most owners have an anti-union predisposition and recall being negatively impacted, directly or indirectly, in the past by union activities. This may cause a majority (but not all) owners to relate to what the EMT is going through with regard to the union and may be willing to endure some problems "for the greater good" (as defined by NetJets).

NJAOwner,

I get what you're saying, and even agree with it.

However, i think it may not apply in our case.

I don't think any of our clients are stupid. None of you would be riding in the back of these planes if you were. Why is that important? Because while many, if not most, of you may not exactly be "sympathetic" to union activities, you also know what our current management team has done to our product.

The degradation in service, the lies, the reduction in value of what you're paying for. All coming from management, not the union.

So let me ask you, how long will you, NJAOwner, put up with the crap coming from management during a strike? How many weeks of chartered aircraft will you ride on (all while paying Netjets their premium and your share sits idle) before you complain or leave? How many times will you be asked, or told, to move your departure date (if a strike, there are unlikely to be enough scabs and supplemental lift available to cover Netjet's daily schedule) before it becomes too much? Based on what you've seen in person, and even read anecdotally on these boards, about how things are currently being run what makes you think this management team will be properly prepared to manage a strike? Given all the high-level departures (and firings) of recent, do you think even our own management folks have confidence in how things are going? Remember, we are approaching 3000 pilots again flying for Netjets USA. Even if a few hundred scab, and are willing to work every single day without a break (against FAA regs anyway), it will still take YEARS to train enough pilots to bring this company back to normalcy (no way will there be enough supplemental lift available for that timeframe to keep things going).

Are YOU willing to wait it out for any significant length of time until the union "issues" are resolved?

Yeah, I'm only speculating, but whether any of our clients are on our side or not will be irrelevant. You'd be paying for a service that you won't be getting and being inconvenienced worse than ever during a strike. Even if every single one of you is against us, a whole bunch of letters/phone calls to JH and WB complaining that you want your service restored NOW, so please crush that union and get back to business, will work in our favor.

Additionally, I think many of you may just sell your share and move on during a strike that appears will go on a while. That's not good for the company or the pilots. But ultimately, WB holds all the liability on that one. We pilots can always find another job. It may not be a great one, and we may struggle, but we'll survive. WB will survive too, but it's going to cost him boatloads of money with shares being returned (how'd it work out for him in 2008? And that was still only a small portion of the fleet being returned). And worse, our clients aren't Joe Schmoe airline passengers. I suspect most of you have, or have access to, a team of smart, well-paid, powerful attorneys. Who are you going after if you become really pissed off with Netjets? I doubt it'll be the union. Imagine a whole big bunch of those lawsuits against Netjets.

We don't need you on our side. We just need you pissed off, because you'll be putting the extra pressure we need on management, whether you're on our side or not. Like I said, I doubt many of you will put up with it, especially at Netjet's premium prices, for very long.

Then again, I could be wrong. But this one is a gamble I'm willing to take.

All that being said, I sincerely hope it doesn't come to a strike. It's a bad option all the way around for everyone. And we can finish this quickly if most of our pilots would just follow the rules now.