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The whole fatigue discussion is legitimate IMO. When an airline creates a culture through low pay, hub selection, and scheduling practices, there are predictable and controllable outcomes to margins of safety. Some of these are just part of their business model, but the affects on safety can be known and mitigated.The original post is a result of the Colgan crash....2 of the next 3 responses cited rest requirements.
So wait, is the article saying that better training with flight attendants would have improved the outcome of the Buffalo flight that day?
Pilots should not fly if unfit to fly.Joe, the FO commuted in to work via Fedex and slept in a chair in the crew lounge that morning once she arrived in EWR. While she legally did have the rest, hardly seems adequate. However, the responsibility to show up to work rested and prepared will always be up to the pilot. Thousands of professionals are able to do this time and time again without making it to the headlines and (thankfully) no one getting injured or killed.
What kind of bat guano is this? You can train us to fly the whole simulator profile inverted if you want to, but if you're not going to hold people who fail accountable for those failures it's a pointless exercise. That crash had nothing to do with pilot training, and had everything to do with making sure pilots are well rested and paid enough so they don't have to travel across the country to have a place to live. When a McDonald’s employee can make more than a pilot in a year you would think that we have a problem.
So the contention is, that in the Colgan case, if the pilots had been paid more money they would have made different personal choices with reference to their commute or would have moved to Newark. They would therefore have been better rested and responded properly to what amounts to an unnoticed degradation of airspeed,
...had that airspeed and configuration oversight still occurred they would have executed properly a basic maneuver taught at the private pilot level....because they were better rested.
Higher pay don't fix stupid, ie. pulling into a stick shaker.
A draft of the sim profile is already floating around the internet. If the FA senses a rapid bumping like boat going across choppy water, they are to immediately contact the flight deck. As soon as the flight deck answers they are to yell, "RECOVER!" The hands on training during ground school is going to be everyone meeting at a nearby lake for speed boat over choppy water familiarization.
Well the captain had over 21 hours of rest prior to duty in, and the FO was off the day before and it was a 1330 report...Now I ask again, what changes in the rest rules would have changed this? Any fatigue was self induced...Should we restrict commuting?
Facts please...not emotional rhetoric...
I want them just to simplify my monthly bid process, in which I have to essentially build sane rest rules into my bid. It's amazing how few trips are left after I've put in 11 hours or more block to block (which gives you less than 10 behind the door), duty day length, frontside/backside clock-swapping, legs per day, etc. It would be nice if the FAA did this for me. It took them two days to make changes to ATC schedules, why two years for pilots?Who would deny better rest rules (min time behind the hotel room door for one, to account for traffic SNAFUs or absent busses) would in fact ensure more safety?
yea lets make a SAT of 1300 the min for an ATP, or ACT 29, two years of college math through Calc II, one year of calc based physics, and chem. Kinda like the military academy entrance requirements, that would put smarter piltos into the cockpit, if we could find themI agree with all the posters that said cumulative and situational fatigue were a factor. If you don't- you're just wrong- Also agree w/ salukiGod of aviation- that I wouldn't make the mistakes that capt made- and I like this step- I still don't think Sims are the problem- we could get rid of a LOt of the undisciplined riff-raff if we got rid of the complete joke of FAA written tests.
Want to raise the bar on the quality of pilots, make the tests more like the Bar. Hell, make it a challenge that a 4th grader couldn't pass in a week at least.
The one you can't recall was Pinnacle's "410 it" pilots.Colgan Q400 @ BUF - Gulfstream puppy mill Capt.
Lexington, KY RJ - Gulfstream puppy mill F/O
I can't recall at present the other RJ crash that had GULFSTREAM tards at teh wheel
yea lets make a SAT of 1300 the min for an ATP, or ACT 29, two years of college math through Calc II, one year of calc based physics, and chem. Kinda like the military academy entrance requirements, that would put smarter piltos into the cockpit, if we could find them